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NSBB HOF Ballot- Bruce Sutter

vance_the_cubs_fan

By vance_the_cubs_fan,
in Chicago Cubs Talk

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NSBB HOF Ballot- Bruce Sutter  

73 members have voted

  1. 1. NSBB HOF Ballot- Bruce Sutter

    • Yes
      44
    • no
      29

vance_the_cubs_fan Cooperstown

vance_the_cubs_fan

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

The first player on the NSBB is former Cub reliever Bruce Sutter.

 

From the Baseball Hall of Fame web site,

 

13th year on the ballot… Pitched 12 seasons… Revolutionized the split-fingered fas tb all… Led NL in saves five times in 1979 (37), ’80 (28), ’81 (25), ’82 (36), and ’84 (45) and games finished once in 1984 (63)… Ranks 19th on the all-time save list and 28th in games finished… Finished in top 10 NL MVP voting five times in 1977 (7th), ‘79 (7th), ‘81 (8th), ‘82 (5th), and ’84 (6th)… Won NL Cy Young Award in 1979; earned votes four other times in 1977 (6th), ’81(5th), ’82 (4th), ’84 (3rd)… Named The Sporting News NL Fireman of Year and won the NL Rolaids Relief Award four times, 1979, ‘81, ’82, and ’84… Six All-Star teams (1977-’81, ’84); owns a 2-0 record and did not allow an earned run in 6 2/3 ASG innings… Pitched in 661 games, all in relief, and amassed 300 career saves… Four 30-plus save seasons and one 40-plus save season… Tied ML record by striking out the side on nine pitches, Sept. 8, 1977 (ninth inning)…One NL Championship Series (1982); did not allow an earned run in 4 1/3 NLCS innings… One World Series (1982); with two saves in 7 2/3 WS innings… A 2-0 record with three saves and a 3.00 ERA in six postseason games… Member of 1982 WS championship team.

 

Do we elect Sutter?

 

See theHOF post in Baseball Discussions for a complete explation of rules.

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ConstableRabbit Myrtle Beach Pelicans

ConstableRabbit

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

I said no. It's not like it was a night-and-day decision- he was a good pitcher. My rationale is this: he wasn't good enough to make it to the hall with only a few good seasons (a la Koufax) and a lot of the reasoning people use as justification for him being in is that "he revolutionized the closer role in baseball". I give such credit to the manager, not the player.

 

 

on a slightly less scientific note, he was pwn3d by ryno as well

vance_the_cubs_fan Cooperstown

vance_the_cubs_fan

Community Moderator
Posted
  • Author
Posted

Sutter, like Gossage and Smith, are interesting candidates. It seems the voters don't know what to do with closers.

 

Only two closers are currently in the Hall. Looking at his comparables like I do with hitters is problematic with relievers. He isn't likely to compare well with other HOF pitchers since there are few pitchers who pitched in his role in the HOF.

 

My feeling on Sutter, and I have the same feeling about Gossage, is that if you think any closer should be in the Hall, then Sutter belongs.

 

He has been one of the best closers in the history of the game and was as dominant a reliever as you could find. I'm going to have to vote yes on Sutter.

Transmogrified Tiger All-Star

Transmogrified Tiger

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Nay. 1042 Career IP. 5 full seasons of 136 ERA+ pitching doesn't do it for me.

 

Are there any career closers that you'd consider HOFers?

 

I haven't researched it, but they'd have to be really dominant. There are very few planned relievers(especially HOF eligible ones), so the vast majority failed at starting. I think it's unfair to those who were able to be good enough to start but didn't put up HOF starting careers, when it's possible or even likely they could have done a similar job as a reliever.

Rob Knoxville Smokies

Rob

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

I had to vote yes.

 

He's an extremely borderline case for me. But not only did he win a Cy Young and go to the All Star game 6 times, but it's that damned split finger fastball. You have to give some credit to the guy for being the first truly successful person to use a certain pitch.

 

I honestly think if he would have played past 35 and pitched league-average ball... we would see his saves total as high enough to wave him through without question.

 

Again, it's extremely borderline, but I'd give him my vote.

Tedward College Ball

Tedward

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Nay. 1042 Career IP. 5 full seasons of 136 ERA+ pitching doesn't do it for me.

 

Are there any career closers that you'd consider HOFers?

 

What's wrong with Mariano Rivera? He's been able to dominate with one pitch. It's a no-brainer IMO, that he'll eventually get in.

TruffleShuffle Cooperstown

TruffleShuffle

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Nay. 1042 Career IP. 5 full seasons of 136 ERA+ pitching doesn't do it for me.

 

Are there any career closers that you'd consider HOFers?

 

What's wrong with Mariano Rivera? He's been able to dominate with one pitch. It's a no-brainer IMO, that he'll eventually get in.

 

Absolutely, great playoff numbers, very durable, plus a 197 ERA+ which ranks him among the elite closers in baseball for a decade. He should be on every ballot.

gus_dog Draft Eligible

gus_dog

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Nay. 1042 Career IP. 5 full seasons of 136 ERA+ pitching doesn't do it for me.

 

Are there any career closers that you'd consider HOFers?

 

What's wrong with Mariano Rivera? He's been able to dominate with one pitch. It's a no-brainer IMO, that he'll eventually get in.

 

Absolutely, great playoff numbers, very durable, plus a 197 ERA+ which ranks him among the elite closers in baseball for a decade. He should be on every ballot.

 

IMO, playoff numbers carry no more meaning than non-playoff games within the context of hof. plenty of hof'ers had no playoff experience, or poor playoff stats. hof is looking at the total body of work.

 

Sutter's mastery of the splitter completely revolutionized pitching in general, and specifically relief pitching. The splitter is as common in a pitchers repertiore now as a slider or curve is.

 

I vote yes - he deserves it.

 

BTW, I agree that the save is just about the most overrated stat in baseball.

vance_the_cubs_fan Cooperstown

vance_the_cubs_fan

Community Moderator
Posted
  • Author
Posted

Neyer on Sutter:

 

Sutter was a fantastic pitcher for nine seasons, but on balance he was little better than Dan Quisenberry. Qualitatively, this is practically indisputable. So the argument for Sutter generally runs something like this: "He was the first modern closer, and he invented the splitter!" Of course, neither of those things is true (and even if he were the first "closer," shouldn't the credit go to Herman Franks, his manager?). Oh, and there's also this gem: "His splitter was unhittable." Or intimidating, or dominant, or whatever. I just don't understand why Sutter gets extra credit for his splitter but Quisenberry doesn't get extra credit for his sinker when the results were essentially the same.

 

Not a ringing endorsement for Sutter by Neyer.

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