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NSBB HOF Ballot: Rich "Goose" Gossage  

64 members have voted

  1. 1. NSBB HOF Ballot: Rich "Goose" Gossage

    • Yes
      31
    • No
      33


Posted

Next up: Goose Gossage.

 

From the Baseball HOF website

 

7th year on the ballot… Pitched 22 seasons… Led the AL in saves three times (1975, ’78, ’80)… Two seasons with 30-plus saves… Named The Sporting News AL Fireman of the Year in 1975 and ’78… Named to nine All-Star teams (1975-’78, ‘80-’82, ’84-‘85)… Finished in top 10 in AL MVP voting twice in 1980 (3rd) and ’81 (9th)… Received Cy Young Award votes in 1975 (T6th), ’78 (5th), ’80 (3rd), ’81 (6th) and ’84 (5th)… Ranks 16th all-time in saves and 10th in games pitched… One AL Division Series (1981); three saves and no earned runs in 6 2/3 ALDS innings… Four League Championship Series (1978, ’80, ’81, ’84); owns 4.91 ERA and three saves in 11 LCS innings… Three World Series (1978, ’81, ’84); owns 2.63 ERA and two saves in 13 2/3 WS innings… Member of 1978 WS championship team.

 

So, now it's time to debate Gossage. See the HOF thread in baseball discussions for explanation of the rules.

Recommended Posts

Posted
I say no... a reliever needs to be more dominant than he was in order to make the HOF, in my opinion. He did have a dominant stretch, but really leveled off in the latter half of his career.
Posted
Best single season for a reliever ever, but like Truffle said, several great years combined with several mediocre years. I voted no as well.

 

Dennis Eckersley and Eric Gagne beg to differ...

Posted
You're right about Eck's 1990 season, but Gagne doesn't have a year that can compare to Gossage in '81.

 

I'd take Gagne's 2003 over Gossage's 1981. Gagne had 55 saves, a 1.20 ERA, 335 ERA+, 0.69 WHIP, and 15 K per 9 IP.

 

Gossage had 20 saves, a 0.77 ERA, 465 ERA+, 0.77 WHIP, and 9.3 K per 9 IP. The biggest problem I have with Gossage's season is that all his stats are in line with his other seasons except for his BAA, which is absurdly low.

 

Gossage wasn't striking more guys out than usual, and his walk rate was basically identical to what it would be the next year. So, this suggests that Gossage was pretty lucky in posting such a low ERA and WHIP that season. I believe that if the full season had been played, and not 2/3 of a season, that there would have been some leveling off of his numbers. And I guess beyond that, I guess I just have a hard time taking Gossage's 1981 season as one of the best relief years ever when he only pitched 46 innings, versus 82 for Gagne in 2003, or 73 for Eck in 1990.

Posted

Gossage shouldn't be punished for IP since it was a strike year. That ERA+ of 465 to me outweighs the higher strikeouts of Gagne. I think a lower H/IP ratio shouldn't be weighed as heavily as far as being a predictor of future success (see Howry), but for the season it's some stat that shouldn't be counted.

 

That 465 didn't come from good luck.

Posted
Gossage shouldn't be punished for IP since it was a strike year. That ERA+ of 465 to me outweighs the higher strikeouts of Gagne. I think a lower H/IP ratio shouldn't be weighed as heavily as far as being a predictor of future success (see Howry), but for the season it's some stat that shouldn't be counted.

 

That 465 didn't come from good luck.

 

Paging Bob's Keeper... he is better with this stuff than I am.

Posted

One of the main reasons why Goose had such a great year was b/c of the H/IP allowed. If he can produce a 465 ERA+ and have the others remain consistent, either his others stats were great to begin with or the BAA was amazing. He had very good numbers as far as BB/IP, K/IP, and HR/IP throughout, but the main reason why he had the great year over his previosu years has the BAA.

 

He deserves credit for it, if you're comparing his BAA to the rest of his career, what validity does it have when we're only talking about one season and not a career?

Posted

Bob Klapisch makes a case for Gossage.

 

Gossage shouldn't have to sound like a man begging for spare change, but he's seen Dennis Eckersley, a closer with an arguably thinner résumé zoom by him into the Hall. So the Goose keeps pounding away at the wall of ignorance, unembarrassed to say, "I hate to see injustice."

 

He has a point. In fact, it's a travesty that Gossage has been excluded from the Hall. During his 10-year prime, he allowed fewer hits per nine innings (6.1) than Eckersley (7.5), Rollie Fingers (7.8) and even Mariano Rivera (7). Gossage's ERA in that golden era was a mere 2.03, which is better than Bruce Sutter's 2.62.

 

Posted

Here's a pretty compelling case for the Goose.

 

Voters are still trying to figure out how to apply Hall-of-Fame standards to closers. On the one hand, they toiled in the highest-pressure situations. On the other hand, their career inning totals pale in comparison to those of a garden-variety starting pitcher. On a third, genetically aberrant hand, it's hard to make statistical comparisons between contemporary closers and the firemen of yore because of how differently they're deployed. Perhaps Gossage — at least until Mariano Rivera is eligible for induction — should be the gold standard. (Then again, we'll probably never see his kind again.)

 

 

Three times Gossage logged at least 130 relief innings in a season, four times he worked 100 relief innings in a season, and seven times he worked at least 80 innings. That kind of durability isn't something you see anymore, perhaps for good reason. In 1975, 1977 and 1978, Gossage cobbled together three of the best relief seasons ever. (You could add a fourth to the list had the players' strike not abbreviated the '81 season; for the year, he worked 46.2 innings and logged an ERA of 0.77). Goose pitched for 22 years, worked more 1,500 innings in relief and had an astounding collection of peak seasons. That's a Hall of Famer.

 

Posted
If Eckersly can make it on the first ballot, Gossage, Smith, Sutter, Reardon, and a few others should automatically be enshrined without a vote.
Posted
If Eckersly can make it on the first ballot, Gossage, Smith, Sutter, Reardon, and a few others should automatically be enshrined without a vote.

 

I hate this logic. If the HOF makes one mistake on your eyes, why compound it by making 5 more?

Posted

An article in today's Denver Post supports Gossage for the HOF.

 

As if the younger members of the BBWAA can relate to what Gossage and other closers from his generation had to endure. Today's closers typically come on in the top of the ninth inning, no runners on, often with a two- or three-run lead. That's assuming their managers don't save them for the final out of the game.

 

Gossage? If the seventh inning rolled around and a couple of runners reached, he was getting the call. And once he got out of that jam, he would pitch the eighth and ninth, too. A couple of ice packs later, he would do it again.

 

Posted

Neyer seems to favor Gossage over Sutter.

 

Link.

 

Gossage...was a fantastic pitcher for roughly 11 seasons, and if he'd been used like Sutter was, he'd have saved just as many games in his best seasons. In his career, he pitched 1,809 innings with a 3.01 ERA. Sutter pitched 1,042 innings with a 2.83 ERA. Honestly, it boggles the mind to think that year after year, Sutter gets more votes than Gossage. Perhaps both belong in the Hall of Fame. It depends what value you attach to premier relief pitchers of their era. But the line should form behind Gossage.

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