Is Z going to feel these past two starts down the road?

AlwaysaCub · June 11, 2006

Big Z has definitely shown great resiliancy in his time with the Cubs, but his past two starts have been 128 and 126 pitches, respectively. I'm expecting a few lesser-quality starts in his next few, but I really hope he proves me wrong. Am I crazy about it?

Sammy Sofa · June 11, 2006

If he wasn't walking so many batters, I'd be less worried.

Tired Z + lots of walks...bad combo.

He pulled it off today, but man, he was playing with fire.

cubs121 · June 11, 2006

I wouldnt be worried.. but I would be caucious in his future starts. :shock:

JGalt73 · June 11, 2006

Below are the leaders in pitcher abuse points for 2003-2006. Maybe Z can finally rise to the top! You make the call:

2006 (before today's games)

1. Jason Schmidt

2. Curt Schilling

3. John Smoltz

4. Carlos Zambrano

5. Aaron Harang

2005

1. Livan Hernandez

2. Carlos Zambrano

3. Mark Prior

4. Aaron Harang

5. Barry Zito

2004

1. Livan Hernandez

2. Jason Schmidt

3. Carlos Zambrano

4. Victor Zambrano

5. Al Leiter

2003

1. Javier Vazquez

2. Kerry Wood

3. Livan Hernandez

4. Mark Prior

5. Mark Redman

(11. Carlos Zambrano)

Edited June 11, 2006 by JGalt73

Tim Burr · June 11, 2006

Making a lot of pitches in two stressful and close games does not help keep him fresh for his next start with the high pitch counts where you could lose the game with one bad pitch. Apparently Dusty Baker does not take that into consideration because he wasn't a pitcher and he played in an era when pitchers usually went deep into games. I'm afraid that time has passed him by in his reasoning.

sweetpeteman · June 11, 2006

I love how Prior missed a chunk of last year and still managed to be third...

Transmogrified Tiger · June 11, 2006

Pitcher abuse is the number one reason why Dusty should be fired.

Outshined_One · June 11, 2006

The day I turned on Dusty once and for all?

Chad Fox.

Shavo · June 11, 2006

Zambrano's arm will fall off.

ChiCubsFan · June 11, 2006

Zambrano's arm will fall off.

It is inevitable. And it makes me want to cry. That, and your avatar. :( It's a sad time to be a Cubs fan.

abuck1220 · June 11, 2006

i don't think high pitch counts really matter that much.

how are wood and prior doing these days, by the way?

Geech · June 11, 2006

how are wood and prior doing these days, by the way?

Prior has yet to lose a game this season!

Ding Dong Johnson · June 11, 2006

how are wood and prior doing these days, by the way?

Prior has yet to lose a game this season!

Wood is absolutely unhittable right now.

ChiCubsFan · June 11, 2006

how are wood and prior doing these days, by the way?

Prior has yet to lose a game this season!

Wood is absolutely unhittable right now.

haha...wait :(

NorthsideAvenger · June 11, 2006

i don't think high pitch counts really matter that much.

how are wood and prior doing these days, by the way?

I think I saw Prior doing the worm at a bar Saturday night, does that count :D ?

Andy · June 11, 2006

There is no doubt that Z will flame out in the next 3-5 years if Dusty doesn't knock this crap off.

radarluv1 · June 11, 2006

carlos is leading the league in K's, and is like 7th in ERA. dont ruin him dusty.

JGalt73 · June 11, 2006

2006 Pitcher abuse point leader update:

1. Carlos Zambrano

2. Jason Schmidt

3. Curt Schilling

4. John Smoltz

5. Barry Zito

Pinktermite · June 11, 2006

I think this is just crap, Carlos is a horse, always has been and if he was going to break down because of dusty's supposed "pitcher abuse" he would have done so by now. I think, if anything, we coddle these guys way too much. John Smoltz and Randy Johnson are both 40 years old and still doing it, so is Roger Clemens, I'm sure he had a few 130 pitch outings in his year or two in the league, so has Curt Schilling.

Again, you guys harp on how lousy dusty is without taking into account the players that he's given/asks for. I won't say that dusty is Bobby Cox or any other great manager, but let up a little fellas, this team is lousy for the most part BECAUSE it's starters are big strong guys who can't pitch.

I for one think that 120 pitches should be expected, not shunned, unless your name is Greg Maddux.

CubsBullsBears · June 11, 2006

Maybe he's just manly enough to play thru the pain, unlike Wood and Prior. Or maybe he hasn't broken down b/c he's built like a horse. Or maybe he does some good conditioning in the winter.

XZero771679666304 · June 11, 2006

The day I turned on Dusty once and for all?

Chad Fox.

Chances are that Fox would have gone down eventually, but that was really, really bad. It was so stupid it was stunning.

gus_dog · June 11, 2006

2006 Pitcher abuse point leader update:

1. Carlos Zambrano
2. Jason Schmidt
3. Curt Schilling
4. John Smoltz
5. Barry Zito

I'd take all five of those guys on my staff any day, and twice on Sunday, and I would be very happy.

IMO, Schmidt got screwed out of the CYA a couple of years ago.

sherwood921 · June 11, 2006

I think this is just crap, Carlos is a horse, always has been and if he was going to break down because of dusty's supposed "pitcher abuse" he would have done so by now. I think, if anything, we coddle these guys way too much. John Smoltz and Randy Johnson are both 40 years old and still doing it, so is Roger Clemens, I'm sure he had a few 130 pitch outings in his year or two in the league, so has Curt Schilling.

Again, you guys harp on how lousy dusty is without taking into account the players that he's given/asks for. I won't say that dusty is Bobby Cox or any other great manager, but let up a little fellas, this team is lousy for the most part BECAUSE it's starters are big strong guys who can't pitch.

I for one think that 120 pitches should be expected, not shunned, unless your name is Greg Maddux.

:shock:

Transmogrified Tiger · June 11, 2006

I think this is just crap, Carlos is a horse, always has been and if he was going to break down because of dusty's supposed "pitcher abuse" he would have done so by now. I think, if anything, we coddle these guys way too much. John Smoltz and Randy Johnson are both 40 years old and still doing it, so is Roger Clemens, I'm sure he had a few 130 pitch outings in his year or two in the league, so has Curt Schilling.

Again, you guys harp on how lousy dusty is without taking into account the players that he's given/asks for. I won't say that dusty is Bobby Cox or any other great manager, but let up a little fellas, this team is lousy for the most part BECAUSE it's starters are big strong guys who can't pitch.

I for one think that 120 pitches should be expected, not shunned, unless your name is Greg Maddux.

When you consistently push the envelope with pitcher's outings, you're begging for injury. It's no coincidence that Prior and Wood were ridden really hard down through '03, and both have had injury problems since.

There's no cut and dry point where you say that "this is too many pitches for anyone". Sometimes a guy will throw 120 pitches and not throw many high stress pitches, and still have proper mechanics. As a guideline, when you get upwards of 120, there are few pitchers who maintain their form.

People with more background than me have noticed Carlos's mechanics breaking down at high pitch counts before, and considering his age and how long we want to have him around, it makes little sense pushing Carlos to that level of risk as consistently as Dusty does.

Outshined_One · June 11, 2006

I think this is just crap, Carlos is a horse, always has been and if he was going to break down because of dusty's supposed "pitcher abuse" he would have done so by now. I think, if anything, we coddle these guys way too much. John Smoltz and Randy Johnson are both 40 years old and still doing it, so is Roger Clemens, I'm sure he had a few 130 pitch outings in his year or two in the league, so has Curt Schilling.

Again, you guys harp on how lousy dusty is without taking into account the players that he's given/asks for. I won't say that dusty is Bobby Cox or any other great manager, but let up a little fellas, this team is lousy for the most part BECAUSE it's starters are big strong guys who can't pitch.

I for one think that 120 pitches should be expected, not shunned, unless your name is Greg Maddux.

Funny, because John Smoltz and Curt Schilling have been quite injured over their careers. Cripes, the Braves originally moved Smoltz to closer because he couldn't stay healthy as a starter. I'm personally frightened that Wood might become like Schilling, who was injured a lot early in his career, then settled down as he got older and only had to battle major injuries in 2003 and in the 2004 postseason. Johnson has also had his fair share of problems. Clemens is the only guy you listed who hasn't broken down due to injury, save for the 2005 postseason.

Thanks to the miracle of modern medical science, these guys have had their careers extended well beyond their injury problems. It's not like these guys haven't felt the effects of overuse themselves, you know?

Is Z going to feel these past two starts down the road?

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