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Protests - What Happens?

PackLandVA

By PackLandVA,
in Chicago Cubs Talk

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PackLandVA Myrtle Beach Pelicans

PackLandVA

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

After watching the craziness in the 9th inning of the Cubs game, I'm still not certain if the game was protested or not. Regardless, I'm wondering how protests affect the outcome of a game.

 

Suppose the umps made the wrong call in the 9th, but failed to score a run and still ended up beating the Sox 2-0. If the Sox protest was validated by the league, what happens? Do the Cubs lose the game? What if an incorrect ruling by the umps directly affected the outcome?

 

Thanks in advance to those in the know!

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sunnydoo First Round Pick

sunnydoo

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

they have a hearing on why the BlackSox think the Umpires missed the ruling and let them have their say.

 

they then rule against them, and move on.

 

in the unlikelihood (and i cant remember the last time it happened) that the protest is upheld, the Cubs and BlackSox have to replay the game at the point where the decision was made.

 

at least thats the way i think it works.

cubfan1955 Draft Eligible

cubfan1955

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
The only protest I remember being upheld was the George Brett pine tar game. They played it over from where the incident occurred. Today, the umps got it right so the Sox can protest all they want. They aren't going to win it.
sweetpeteman Chicago Cubs

sweetpeteman

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
they have a hearing on why the BlackSox think the Umpires missed the ruling and let them have their say.

 

they then rule against them, and move on.

 

in the unlikelihood (and i cant remember the last time it happened) that the protest is upheld, the Cubs and BlackSox have to replay the game at the point where the decision was made.

 

at least thats the way i think it works.

 

The only time I can recall is the Brett Pine tar incident.

 

I think you're right in how it works, and there is no way this one is overturned.

Soul MVP

Soul

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

1) White Sox send their protest to the league office

 

2) League office starts laughing that a team which can't put a single run on the board is protesting

 

3) Media gets wind of it, tells the Sox to just shut the hell up in the papers & on the radio

 

4) Issue is dropped

 

That's if the Sox are really stupid enough to raise an actual protest.

bhogg South Bend Cubs

bhogg

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

It was discussed in chat --- the umps actually got it wrong.

 

When Pagan hit Uribe, it was interference. At that point, Pie should have been awarded home and Pagan should have been awarded 3rd.

 

Should have been a run for the cubs, first and third with no one out.

Coach C Myrtle Beach Pelicans

Coach C

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It was discussed in chat --- the umps actually got it wrong.

 

When Pagan hit Uribe, it was interference. At that point, Pie should have been awarded home and Pagan should have been awarded 3rd.

 

Should have been a run for the cubs, first and third with no one out.

 

I don't think so. Pie was running towards 3rd, and he has not touched 3rd base when the interference occured. When it occured, the ball immediately becomes dead, and the runner stays at whichever base they are near by, I believe. By the time the interference occured, IIRC, Pie haven't touched 3rd yet.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd be guessing on how it was played out.

PackLandVA Myrtle Beach Pelicans

PackLandVA

Old-Timey Member
Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

I don't believe the ball becaomes automatically dead. Her's the partial rule I found:

 

"Type B obstruction occurs when the obstructed runner is not being played upon. The ball does not become dead; rather, the umpire calls "That's obstruction!", but play is allowed to continue. While play continues, the umpire privately decides what base the obstructed runner would have reached without the obstruction. The obstructed runner is now "protected" until he reaches that base. When playing action stops, the ball will become dead and the runner will be awarded that base if he has not reached it. If he was put out before he reaches that base, that out will be nullified and he will be awarded that base. If the runner reaches that base safely, the obstruction is ignored. If the runner continues past that base, he does so at his own risk, without protection. There is no minimum base award for type B obstruction."

Edited by PackLandVA
Ivy Walls College Ball

Ivy Walls

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

The rule is quite simple: Obstruction and the play is basically dead, in this case the offended player was called out, which the rule states he gets his base without liability.....play is dead, all subsequent runners are to take their base...

 

Ozzie had to do something so he got tossed and the Sox still got shutout.

 

I expect that Kenny Williams begins backing up the truck this week. ChiSox or Black-hose have now lost 22 out of 27...5-22 and I think Ozzie asks Ozzie Osborne for some happy pills.

PackLandVA Myrtle Beach Pelicans

PackLandVA

Old-Timey Member
Posted
  • Author
Posted
The rule is quite simple:

 

Actually, the rule is not quite simple. Baseball is a very complicated game with many rules, sub-rules, etc. That's why the umps are full-time employees, working 12 months a year on rules, interpretation etc. And that is why the are more often than not correct in their calls WITHOUT the aid of instant replay!

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It was discussed in chat --- the umps actually got it wrong.

 

When Pagan hit Uribe, it was interference. At that point, Pie should have been awarded home and Pagan should have been awarded 3rd.

 

Should have been a run for the cubs, first and third with no one out.

 

I don't think so. Pie was running towards 3rd, and he has not touched 3rd base when the interference occured. When it occured, the ball immediately becomes dead, and the runner stays at whichever base they are near by, I believe. By the time the interference occured, IIRC, Pie haven't touched 3rd yet.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd be guessing on how it was played out.

 

I always understood it as obstruction awards you the base you are heading to.

 

As the obstruction by Uribe happened after Pagan touched 2nd, he should be awarded 3rd, since he's awarded 3rd, Pie has to go home.

Coach C Myrtle Beach Pelicans

Coach C

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted (edited)
It was discussed in chat --- the umps actually got it wrong.

 

When Pagan hit Uribe, it was interference. At that point, Pie should have been awarded home and Pagan should have been awarded 3rd.

 

Should have been a run for the cubs, first and third with no one out.

 

I don't think so. Pie was running towards 3rd, and he has not touched 3rd base when the interference occured. When it occured, the ball immediately becomes dead, and the runner stays at whichever base they are near by, I believe. By the time the interference occured, IIRC, Pie haven't touched 3rd yet.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd be guessing on how it was played out.

 

I always understood it as obstruction awards you the base you are heading to.

 

As the obstruction by Uribe happened after Pagan touched 2nd, he should be awarded 3rd, since he's awarded 3rd, Pie has to go home.

 

You could be right. I guess the rules are so mumbled jumbled so badly, that MLB went so far to make it like that to protect the umpires in case of a incorrect call (based on what the media/fans/manager/team that got screwed) and to make it sound like that they made the correct call, despiate the lack of a understanding of the interpreting of the rules.

 

Either way, I'm happy for 3 reasons.

1. It finally happened aganist someone that isn't the Cubs.

2. If it went aganist the Cubs, what are the odds that the Cubs would had made the game 3-0 with a runner only on 2nd with 2 outs, compared to a bases loaded, 0 outs?

 

Granted, the baserunning blunder wacked everything straight to hell, but, at the flip side, 3-0 is a better score than 2-0.

3. The Cubs won. I really couldn't care about what happened.

Edited by Coach C
inari Knoxville Smokies

inari

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I was at this game and confused as hell. I just watched the White Sox broadcast version of that play and Hawk was fuming. However, everything I've heard make it sound like the right call was made. It's funny to hear Hawk whine.
Cubfanintheknow First Round Pick

Cubfanintheknow

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It was discussed in chat --- the umps actually got it wrong.

 

When Pagan hit Uribe, it was interference. At that point, Pie should have been awarded home and Pagan should have been awarded 3rd.

 

Should have been a run for the cubs, first and third with no one out.

 

I don't think so. Pie was running towards 3rd, and he has not touched 3rd base when the interference occured. When it occured, the ball immediately becomes dead, and the runner stays at whichever base they are near by, I believe. By the time the interference occured, IIRC, Pie haven't touched 3rd yet.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd be guessing on how it was played out.

 

I always understood it as obstruction awards you the base you are heading to.

 

As the obstruction by Uribe happened after Pagan touched 2nd, he should be awarded 3rd, since he's awarded 3rd, Pie has to go home.

 

As has been stated by others, Pie had not yet touched third, so it was probably ruled upon that Pagan can't advance to third since it was not yet occupied by the runner in front of him.

 

Anyhow, I appreciated the fact the umpires huddled for as long as they did before making a ruling on the play. Four guys hashing out the rules are more likely to get it right.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It was discussed in chat --- the umps actually got it wrong.

 

When Pagan hit Uribe, it was interference. At that point, Pie should have been awarded home and Pagan should have been awarded 3rd.

 

Should have been a run for the cubs, first and third with no one out.

 

I don't think so. Pie was running towards 3rd, and he has not touched 3rd base when the interference occured. When it occured, the ball immediately becomes dead, and the runner stays at whichever base they are near by, I believe. By the time the interference occured, IIRC, Pie haven't touched 3rd yet.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd be guessing on how it was played out.

 

I always understood it as obstruction awards you the base you are heading to.

 

As the obstruction by Uribe happened after Pagan touched 2nd, he should be awarded 3rd, since he's awarded 3rd, Pie has to go home.

 

As has been stated by others, Pie had not yet touched third, so it was probably ruled upon that Pagan can't advance to third since it was not yet occupied by the runner in front of him.

 

Anyhow, I appreciated the fact the umpires huddled for as long as they did before making a ruling on the play. Four guys hashing out the rules are more likely to get it right.

 

Good point on Pie, I hadn't thought abou that. I would guess that winds up being a judgment call on what the ump is supposed to do there.

 

And I agree kudos to the umps on making sure they got it right. I was impressed, especially considering CB Bucknor and Joe West were 2 of the umps. I don't think Guillen really needed to be tossed, but it's quite likely he was saying the magic words over and over again.

cubfan1955 Draft Eligible

cubfan1955

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
It was discussed in chat --- the umps actually got it wrong.

 

When Pagan hit Uribe, it was interference. At that point, Pie should have been awarded home and Pagan should have been awarded 3rd.

 

Should have been a run for the cubs, first and third with no one out.

 

I don't think so. Pie was running towards 3rd, and he has not touched 3rd base when the interference occured. When it occured, the ball immediately becomes dead, and the runner stays at whichever base they are near by, I believe. By the time the interference occured, IIRC, Pie haven't touched 3rd yet.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd be guessing on how it was played out.

 

I always understood it as obstruction awards you the base you are heading to.

 

As the obstruction by Uribe happened after Pagan touched 2nd, he should be awarded 3rd, since he's awarded 3rd, Pie has to go home.

Pie had not yet made it to 3rd so they cannot send him home. Since they can't send him home they can't send Pagan to 3rd. The umps got it right. Still stupid baserunning by the Cubs and then Pagan tops it off by making another baserunning blunder running into an out at 3rd on the sac fly. We're pathetic on the bases no matter how you analyze it.

Soul MVP

Soul

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It was discussed in chat --- the umps actually got it wrong.

 

When Pagan hit Uribe, it was interference. At that point, Pie should have been awarded home and Pagan should have been awarded 3rd.

 

Should have been a run for the cubs, first and third with no one out.

 

I don't think so. Pie was running towards 3rd, and he has not touched 3rd base when the interference occured. When it occured, the ball immediately becomes dead, and the runner stays at whichever base they are near by, I believe. By the time the interference occured, IIRC, Pie haven't touched 3rd yet.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what I'd be guessing on how it was played out.

 

I always understood it as obstruction awards you the base you are heading to.

 

As the obstruction by Uribe happened after Pagan touched 2nd, he should be awarded 3rd, since he's awarded 3rd, Pie has to go home.

Pie had not yet made it to 3rd so they cannot send him home. Since they can't send him home they can't send Pagan to 3rd. The umps got it right. Still stupid baserunning by the Cubs and then Pagan tops it off by making another baserunning blunder running into an out at 3rd on the sac fly. We're pathetic on the bases no matter how you analyze it.

 

Indeed, and this is one of the primary reasons I don't see us going on a sustained winning streak to get back into this thing. The mistakes will cost us before that can ever happen, in all likelihood.

BleedCubbieBlue81 First Round Pick

BleedCubbieBlue81

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Anyone else see Ozzie throw his line up card to his assistant coach as he was walking out to the umps? He walked out there intending on getting tossed from the game. No matter how that play was called though, one of the managers was coming out to argue. If it goes the Sox way, Sweet Lou probably comes out and throws a tantrum. But his tantrums are way more entertaining.
jjgman21 ACL Cubs

jjgman21

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

I think what happens is the umps discuss the play and the rules they applied with the league. if it is determined the umps misinterpreted the rules on a call or play, they then ask whether it made a difference in the game. if it did, they replay from that point, as it did with Brett and the Yankees. if it didn't, the protest is upheld, but they don't replay from that point in the game.

 

in other words, even if the umps got it wrong, I think the league can uphold the Sox protest, but nothing else needs to be replayed and the game is determined official.

Wilson A2000 South Bend Cubs

Wilson A2000

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The umps made the right call. When Uribe bumped into Pagan, an obstruction is noted and the 3rd base ump correctly raised his hand. The play continues until the Sox make a play on Pagan which they did. Everything that happens after that is nullified. Pagan gets his base and everyone else is safe.
CubmanPi South Bend Cubs

CubmanPi

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Anyone else see Ozzie throw his line up card to his assistant coach as he was walking out to the umps? He walked out there intending on getting tossed from the game. No matter how that play was called though, one of the managers was coming out to argue. If it goes the Sox way, Sweet Lou probably comes out and throws a tantrum. But his tantrums are way more entertaining.

I was watching in a sports bar today and had no sound (and after catching the youtube of Hawk, I'm glad) or close captioning, so I had no idea what was happening, but I fully expected to see the call go against the Cubs, and I could tell that Lou was getting ready to come out with his gasket blown clean off.

 

And definite kudos to the umps for hashing it out. Even before I saw that the call would (or should) work out for the Cubs, I was glad to see how long they were spending figuring it out. I was even more surprised to get home and find out CB Bucknor was in the crew.

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