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Posted

there's been some discussion about the value of the quality start. bruce miles, fred, and ssr have been kind enough to come up with some numbers on various things. we were discussing this in the game thread, but i'm moving it here since everyone is crazy there.

 

For no decisions Cubs starters(Z, Lilly, Hill, Marquis, Marshall) 4.45 ERA

 

1.84 ERA in wins.

 

7.39 in losses.

 

 

Now that Trachsel's line is in the books, the updated ERA on the Cubs' quality starts this year is 1.78. It was only the third quality start this year for the Cubs in which a pitcher has met only the minimum requirement (6 innings and no more than 3 earned runs). Given the Cubs' record, the overall ERA in quality starts and the record when they don't get one, I'd say the quality start, although not perfect, is a pretty good measuring stick.

 

so what do we make of all this? i say that this shows that quality starts is a reasonable proxy for how well a pitcher has done, but then so is wins and losses. both qs and w-l will usually get the general picture right, but will also have some major blind spots, with w-l's blind spots likely being more significant. in the end, there's probably not much reason to use either stat since we have access to much better metrics.

 

anyone else have an alternative analysis?

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Posted

Quality starts are pointless. I don't bother looking at them. Looking at ERAs in quality starts is even more pointless. Looking at ERAs in Ws and Ls is even more pointless.

 

In sum, they're all pointless.

Posted

I don't have any data, but as a Cards fan I'd say quality starts are large.

 

In the early 90's the Cards starting pitching sucked. Then in '96, they brought in Andy Benes, Todd Stottlemyre. Not great pitchers but pretty good and giving the quality start. After a couple down years, the Cards had a rotation in 2000 of Kile, Ankiel, Stephenson, Hentgen and Benes - none were awesome (DK won 20) but the Cards won the division.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2000.shtml

 

Look at 2004. Marquis, Williams, Morris, Suppan, Carpenter. Again, none were outstanding. But the quality starts were there. Yes they had the MV3, but again no pitchers that were dominating. Quality starts keep your team in the game and burn through your bullpen.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2004.shtml

 

Just my opinion from having watched many Cards teams, only having Carp as a stud pitcher recently.

Posted
Quality starts are pointless. I don't bother looking at them. Looking at ERAs in quality starts is even more pointless. Looking at ERAs in Ws and Ls is even more pointless.

 

In sum, they're all pointless.

 

That's kinda the point he's trying to make, but he's framing it in a way that helps explain it to other people who ordinarily wouldn't buy into it rather than just starting a topic to say Quality Starts and W-L record aren't good stats. This way he can get through to people rather than inciting scorn and not getting through to people.

 

Even you had to learn the value of deeper statistics from somebody.

Posted

A perfect start is so judgemental, what would be considered a perfect start at Coors field on a windy day or just Coors field period. I can see how the data could be used in Domes and parks known for their consistant conditions though

 

Probably a change in subjects, sorry. I just wish a good start would lead to a complete game so Marmol, Howery and Dempster could have some rest before the next full week of games.

 

Didn't Lou want to use Wood when the game was a bit out of reach? I'd say last night was a perfect opportunity.

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