This is the transcript of the chat where the NSBB writers ranked the prospects. To see the actual prospect list, click here.

Matt Christenson 12:49 pm: Before we get started in earnest, what exactly are we going to pin down here?
Matt Christenson 12:50 pm: The overall rankings, obviously, but are we also going to pick values for the ceiling/coffee/etc. ratings in Tim's-style list?
Tim Stuart 12:50 pm: Well, what I'd like to get out of this is a collaborative ranking from 1-30 (or more), along with some good comments and justifications for where players rank.
Tim Stuart 12:54 pm: Do we have a unanimous pick at #1?
Tinkers2Evers 12:54 pm: i think it's dopi
Matt Christenson 12:55 pm: I think so, since Raw changed his from PIe to Dope
DeShawn Jackson 12:58 pm: how much do you guys value spring stats for guys knowing they aren't making the team?
Tinkers2Evers 12:58 pm: very little
Tim Stuart 12:58 pm: I value how guys look in ST, but not so much the numbers.
Tim Stuart 12:58 pm: Pinto impressed me yesterday, for example
Tim Stuart 12:59 pm: I was happy to see guzman healthy, though he didn't perform
Tinkers2Evers 12:59 pm: pinto's velocity was lower than i expected
Tinkers2Evers 12:59 pm: but it's still way too early to get concerned
DeShawn Jackson 12:59 pm: I watched WGN and didn't get radar readings....what was he throwing?
Tim Stuart 12:59 pm: I liked the command he showed, though. I thought he'd be further from his spots.
Tinkers2Evers 1:00 pm: mostly high 80's
Tinkers2Evers 1:00 pm: he threw a few 90 and 91
DeShawn Jackson 1:00 pm: apparently he was super nervous
DeShawn Jackson 1:00 pm: hence that first inning
Tinkers2Evers 1:00 pm: not surprising
Tim Stuart 1:01 pm: Yeah, I overlooked that.
DeShawn Jackson 1:02 pm: So, Dopirak #1
Tinkers2Evers 1:02 pm: looks like it
Tim Stuart 1:02 pm: LOL. Yep.
Tim Stuart 1:02 pm: BK, let's get started.
DeShawn Jackson 1:03 pm: who do you guys compare him to?
DeShawn Jackson 1:03 pm: He reminds me of Pat the Bat
DeShawn Jackson 1:03 pm: not as patient yet, though
Matt Christenson 1:04 pm: Before we start in the discussion, this is how I see this working...
Matt Christenson 1:04 pm: Based on the individual lists Tim sent me, I'll start a pool of players you guys can select/debate over.
Matt Christenson 1:05 pm: As you guys agree on the placement of individual players, new ones will take their place in the pool
Tinkers2Evers 1:05 pm: sounds good
Matt Christenson 1:05 pm: We'll continue like that until all your lists have been exhausted.
Matt Christenson 1:06 pm: All right, ready to begin? The first group of players to chosse from is as follows; Dopirak, Pie, Guzman, Harvey, Pinto, and Dubios. Discuss amongst yoursevles.
Tinkers2Evers 1:06 pm: i think we all agree with dopi at 1
Tinkers2Evers 1:06 pm: so #2 comes down to pie and guz
DeShawn Jackson 1:06 pm: yep
Tim Stuart 1:07 pm: I like Dope as #1. Pie could have a good argument based on his broad base of skills and positional scarcity, but Dope's power potential is too great
Tim Stuart 1:07 pm: What do you guys see as Dope's ceiling relative to other first bsaemen?
Tinkers2Evers 1:07 pm: i see him being one of the top HR hitters in the game if he reaches his ceiling
DeShawn Jackson 1:07 pm: Top 1/3 of 1Bmen
Tim Stuart 1:08 pm: Occasional all-star level?
Tinkers2Evers 1:08 pm: if he reaches total ceiling
DeShawn Jackson 1:08 pm: He won't put up Helton or Pujols numbers
DeShawn Jackson 1:08 pm: Yeah
Tim Stuart 1:08 pm: I think he could lead the majors in home runs once or twice, but I dont see him putting up the batting average or OBP of a Pujols, Helton, etc.
Tinkers2Evers 1:09 pm: i'd say he has a chance to be better than occasional
DeShawn Jackson 1:09 pm: Richie Sexson like
Tinkers2Evers 1:09 pm: his power numbers are just off the charts
Tim Stuart 1:09 pm: I think that limits his ceiling a bit when compared to the other 1B.
Tim Stuart 1:09 pm: Sexson is probably a good comparison, though Dope will never be as good defensively which says something, I think.
Tim Stuart 1:10 pm: Dope has more power than Richie, though, which also says something.
Tinkers2Evers 1:10 pm: that's true
Tinkers2Evers 1:10 pm: if he can cut down on his K's
Tinkers2Evers 1:10 pm: and improve his walks
Tim Stuart 1:10 pm: Who has the raw power of Dope? Dunn? Who else?
DeShawn Jackson 1:10 pm: that's about it
Tinkers2Evers 1:10 pm: i see him as being better than sexson
DeShawn Jackson 1:11 pm: He may be better than Sexson, but he will be like Sexson as far as HR potential, but lacking BA and OBP
Tinkers2Evers 1:11 pm: if he improves the K/BB
Matt Christenson 1:11 pm: Tinkers, when you say you see Dope as being better than Sexson, do you mean he can be better than Sexson or that you think he probably will be better than Sexson?
Tinkers2Evers 1:12 pm: he could be
Tinkers2Evers 1:12 pm: ceiling
Matt Christenson 1:12 pm: Gotchya.
Tinkers2Evers 1:12 pm: his raw power is unmatched in the minor leagues save maybe ryan howard
DeShawn Jackson 1:12 pm: Ryan Howard has some pop too
Tim Stuart 1:12 pm: In the end, I think his walks will go up. It's hard to find anyone that puts up that kind of power that doesn't get pitched around often enough to walk a fair amount. I think the BA will be a big driver for the perception of Dope in the end. If he can make enough contact to drive a decent BA, he'll be among the top 3-5 at the position. The hitting streak he had last year gave me a lot of hope he can do that.
Tinkers2Evers 1:13 pm: agreed
Tinkers2Evers 1:13 pm: walks often come with power
Tim Stuart 1:13 pm: Delmon Young, Prince Fielder and Ian Stewart may compare, too
Tinkers2Evers 1:13 pm: true
Tinkers2Evers 1:13 pm: but neither of them have put it together in a single season yet
Tinkers2Evers 1:13 pm: or at least not quite like dopi did
Tinkers2Evers 1:14 pm: what gets overlooked, is that dopi also hit 38 doubles
DeShawn Jackson 1:13 pm: that hitting streak to me (in my biased opinion) was the #1 accomplishment in the minors last year
DeShawn Jackson 1:13 pm: you just don't see 40 HR hitters with 27-game hit streaks
DeShawn Jackson 1:14 pm: You don't see Sosa, Bonds, even Vlad or Manny with streaks that long
Matt Christenson 1:14 pm: So the consensus on Dope is that his offensive talent/raw power makes him a great prospect. That being said, he has some issues to work out before he reaches that potential, including improving his plate discipline and righting some defensive woes? Do you guys agree with that assessment?
Tinkers2Evers 1:15 pm: pretty much
DeShawn Jackson 1:15 pm: yep
Tinkers2Evers 1:15 pm: but i think if he continues his power the walks will be there
Tim Stuart 1:15 pm: And yes, I agree
DeShawn Jackson 1:15 pm: don't see him getting much better defensively though
Tinkers2Evers 1:16 pm: if he hits 40 HR a year it won't matter
DeShawn Jackson 1:16 pm: yeah
Tim Stuart 1:16 pm: He's not going to be Lee over there, that's for certain. Is he a Jack Cust, AL only player, though? I think he works hard enough on defense to be adequate
Tinkers2Evers 1:17 pm: he'll be better than cust
Tinkers2Evers 1:17 pm: cust is immobile

Matt Christenson 1:16 pm: All right, it seems we're pretty much in agreement with Dope at #1. Let's move on to #2. The group is now Guzman, Pie, Pinto, Harvey, and Dubois.
DeShawn Jackson 1:16 pm: Pie slightly over Gooz
DeShawn Jackson 1:17 pm: I think Guzman has the higher ceiling, but less likely to reach it
Tinkers2Evers 1:17 pm: i'll go with guzzy over pie
Tinkers2Evers 1:17 pm: if healthy his stuff is top of the rotation stuff
Tinkers2Evers 1:18 pm: and i have concerns about pie
Tinkers2Evers 1:18 pm: will he ever gain power?
Tim Stuart 1:18 pm: I like Pie at #2 as well. I think Harvey has a higher ceiling (slightly), but Pie is much more likely to contribute at this point.
DeShawn Jackson 1:18 pm: Yeah, but when's the last time he's been healthy
Tinkers2Evers 1:18 pm: he's looked pretty healthy this spring
Tim Stuart 1:18 pm: I've heard Pie put on 20 pounds of mass this winter.
Tim Stuart 1:18 pm: In which case he could show a lot more power this year.
Tinkers2Evers 1:18 pm: maybe i'm being too optimistic
Tinkers2Evers 1:18 pm: we'll see how that affects his power?
Tinkers2Evers 1:19 pm: he'll also have to do something about that slap swing
DeShawn Jackson 1:19 pm: the problem with Pie is I don't see his OBP being anything special
Tinkers2Evers 1:19 pm: neither do i
Tinkers2Evers 1:19 pm: and coupled with nothing special power, i don't see him having a huge ceiling
DeShawn Jackson 1:19 pm: I think the slap swing is overblown
Tim Stuart 1:19 pm: Pie also upped his IsoP from .103 to .144 while moving from a neutral to a pitcher's league
DeShawn Jackson 1:20 pm: I saw him plenty in Lansing and he was like Ichiro in that he could turn on the ball if he wanted
DeShawn Jackson 1:20 pm: 3 ABs in a row, I saw him slap a single, bunt into an out (close call), and turn on a ball in the RCF gap
Tim Stuart 1:20 pm: If you watch the video I took in 2003 versus 2004, he reduced that slap swing quite a bit.
Tim Stuart 1:20 pm: He also changed his stance a fair amount.
Tinkers2Evers 1:21 pm: i haven't see him play since he was in lansing
Tim Stuart 1:21 pm: I'd say that as he continues filling out, he'll change the swing even more.
Tinkers2Evers 1:21 pm: but alot of his slg% is tied into triples
Tim Stuart 1:21 pm: I wish I had been in AZ to see him play this year, though.
DeShawn Jackson 1:21 pm: I don't think .315/.370/.475 is out of the question in his prime
Tim Stuart 1:22 pm: Fragility is the big argument against Guzman, to me.
Tinkers2Evers 1:22 pm: it'd mean he'll have to step up his walks and power to get to that line
Tim Stuart 1:22 pm: I'd like to see UK's argument here for Harvey at #2.
DeShawn Jackson 1:22 pm: add 30-40 steals (probably never better than 65-75% though) and gold glove D....
Tim Stuart 1:22 pm: Pie would primarily have to reduce his K's to get that line, I think
Tinkers2Evers 1:23 pm: i was just going to say that
Tinkers2Evers 1:23 pm: he's still very raw at this point'
Tinkers2Evers 1:23 pm: and i'm worried some of his game won't quite develop
DeShawn Jackson 1:23 pm: he seemed to have good Kzone judgment.....missed pitches down the middle though, ala a young Vlad
Tim Stuart 1:23 pm: But even as he is, he's nearly certain to be a big leaguer one day. At worst, he's a defensive value guy.
Tinkers2Evers 1:24 pm: agreed
Tim Stuart 1:24 pm: There's something to be said for having a high floor in addition to the ceiling
Tinkers2Evers 1:24 pm: but that limits his ceiling
Tim Stuart 1:24 pm: I don't see it that way. He still has a lot of time to fill out, add power and add discipline.
Tinkers2Evers 1:25 pm: all true
Tim Stuart 1:25 pm: It just means that he's already capable of providing value at a skill position based on his defense.
DeShawn Jackson 1:25 pm: just 20
Tinkers2Evers 1:25 pm: but guz doesn't have anything left to prove
Tinkers2Evers 1:25 pm: besides health
Tinkers2Evers 1:25 pm: i think he's more of a sure thing
Tinkers2Evers 1:25 pm: and has a fair ceiling to boot
DeShawn Jackson 1:26 pm: He won't have the control he did in the minors
Tim Stuart 1:26 pm: I think Guz is more of a sure thing to reach the bigs and contribute highly when he gets there. It's staying there that I worry about with him.
Tinkers2Evers 1:26 pm: why do you say that raw?
DeShawn Jackson 1:26 pm: how he deals with adversity and when he doesn't have his best stuff will be huge
DeShawn Jackson 1:27 pm: He doesn't have much experience over A ball, and A ball hitters were likely overmatched and impatient against him
Tinkers2Evers 1:27 pm: are there concerns with how he deals with adversity?
DeShawn Jackson 1:28 pm: not really, he has a solid makeup
Tim Stuart 1:28 pm: On the guys here at the top, i haven't heard any makeup questions about any of them.
Tinkers2Evers 1:28 pm: his BB/9 have been good in his two AA trips
DeShawn Jackson 1:28 pm: how has his BB/9 compared to A ball though?
DeShawn Jackson 1:29 pm: He was something like 40K/0 BB last year in A ball
Tinkers2Evers 1:29 pm: in 2002 his BB/9 in low a was 2.32
Tinkers2Evers 1:29 pm: that smae year in high-A it was 3.16
Tinkers2Evers 1:29 pm: in AA in 2003 it was 2.61
Matt Christenson 1:29 pm: It seems that Guzman is already pretty close to his ceiling, which is considerable. Pie, on the other hand, has the potential to be anywhere from very, very good to very, very mediocre. At first glance it appears that Guzman may be the better prospect, but there's always health to consider. Tim and raw, you seem to be in favor of Pie because of that. Would a fully healthy 2005 from Angel change your minds in that regard?
Tinkers2Evers 1:30 pm: last year in high a it was 0 and in AA it was 2.04
Tinkers2Evers 1:30 pm: he shouldn't be held to the 0
Tim Stuart 1:31 pm: I think there's still a question of whether Angel will have the same stuff he did before his shoulder surgery, too. He hasn't dominated high level competition yet. I think there are just as many questions with him as there are with Pie until one of them proves otherwise.
DeShawn Jackson 1:31 pm: I think a healthy 05 would put him at #1. I agree that he is as close to a sure thing as there is, but he hasn't gotten thru a minor league season yet
Tim Stuart 1:32 pm: I also have to question his durability when he does make it to the bigs.
Tim Stuart 1:32 pm: To me, the health question was big enough to make me consider lowering him beneath Harvey, too.
Matt Christenson 1:33 pm: Well, it seems to me that Tim and Raw are set with Pie and Guzman at #2 and #3 respectively. Any chance either of you will change your minds, or is Tinkers voted down on this one?
DeShawn Jackson 1:33 pm: I put him beneath Harvey, but I elevated him due to coming into this spring strong
Tinkers2Evers 1:33 pm: i guess i'll concede
Tinkers2Evers 1:34 pm: which brings us to #4
Matt Christenson 1:35 pm: All right then, pending no further objections, I'll peg Pie as #2 and Guzman as #3. For number four consider the following: Pinto, Dubois, Harvey, Pinto, Marshall, Petrick.

Matt Christenson (4:09:54 PM): All right, we're settled on Dope, Pie, and Guz for 1, 2, 3. Candidates for #4: Pinto, Dubois, Harvey, Marshall, and Petrick.
Tim Stuart (4:10:02 PM): UK, in your rankings you have harvey at #2. Care to convince us?
Todd Andrews (4:10:47 PM): Higher ceiling than Pie, IMO. He has a farther way to go, given his injury, but if I was to go by ceiling as I did in my rankings, I went with Harvey over Pie.
Tinkers2Evers (4:11:26 PM): i'd like to harvey put up #'s at low-A first
Todd Andrews (4:11:44 PM): Like T2E, I think his ceiling is restricted by his lack of power and recent inabilities to draw BBs at a high enough ratio to comp. for his high Ks.
Todd Andrews (4:12:17 PM): It definitely is premature to rank Harvey that high at this stage.
Tinkers2Evers (4:12:32 PM): i wouldn't be against harvey at #4
Tinkers2Evers (4:12:40 PM): but i think pinto and dubois have a case as well
Todd Andrews (4:13:02 PM): I'm voting for Harvey, obviously.
DeShawn Jackson (4:13:08 PM): Harvey over those 2
Tim Stuart (4:13:36 PM): I'd go with Harvey here, too. The ceiling is too high to ignore. His power potential is nearly that of Dope, but he plays much, much better defense to go along with it.
Tinkers2Evers (4:13:43 PM): okay
Tim Stuart (4:14:01 PM): For me, there's separation after these four and the rest
Todd Andrews (4:14:13 PM): Similar raw power as BD, more athletic, strong arm. If inexperience is the #1 negative, given his tools, I think he should be #4.
Matt Christenson (4:14:18 PM): So Harvey at #4... lots of potential, but a long way to go until he gets there.
Tinkers2Evers (4:14:24 PM): yea
Todd Andrews (4:14:32 PM): Yep.
Tim Stuart (4:14:35 PM): K-rate is the big thing for Harvey at this point, in my mind
Tinkers2Evers (4:14:49 PM): not surprising that it's so high though
Tinkers2Evers (4:14:57 PM): he's still young
Tinkers2Evers (4:15:02 PM): and a power hitter
Tim Stuart (4:15:10 PM): Watching him play, he's got a big hole to plug on the low-outside corner.
Tim Stuart (4:15:18 PM): So do a lot of major leaguers, though
DeShawn Jackson (4:15:39 PM): how's his bat speed?
Tim Stuart (4:16:18 PM): I thought it was good, but a long power stroke.
Tim Stuart (4:16:37 PM): Gotta have bat speed to get that kind of power, though.
DeShawn Jackson (4:16:45 PM): yep
Todd Andrews (4:17:04 PM): His swing is long, but the Cubs shortened Dopirak's swing as well.
Tinkers2Evers (4:17:17 PM): and that worked out well
Tinkers2Evers (4:17:28 PM): he's got time and talent
Tim Stuart (4:17:35 PM): That's true. I'm not willing to put him higher than #4 until I see it successful, though.
DeShawn Jackson (4:17:38 PM): yeah, I noticed Dope didn't have the typical long swing of a big power/K guy
Tim Stuart (4:17:48 PM): But I can't put anyone above him, either.
DeShawn Jackson (4:17:49 PM): me either

Tim Stuart (4:18:07 PM): #5 should be interesting.
Tinkers2Evers (4:18:20 PM): i'll go with dubois
DeShawn Jackson (4:18:26 PM): Pinto, Dubois, Petrick
Todd Andrews (4:18:28 PM): For #5, I'd go with Petrick.
Tinkers2Evers (4:18:30 PM): his numbers have been too good and he's too close to the majors
DeShawn Jackson (4:18:40 PM): Pinto for me, I guess
DeShawn Jackson (4:18:44 PM): I can be talked out of it though
Tinkers2Evers (4:18:51 PM): his chances of becoming a regular is the best of our prospects
Tinkers2Evers (4:18:58 PM): and i think his ceiling is considerable
DeShawn Jackson (4:19:44 PM): Dubois has worked hard....from Lansing a few years ago, his bat is a lot quicker
Tinkers2Evers (4:20:09 PM): i see no reason to believe he wont hit major league pitching
Tim Stuart (4:20:16 PM): I went with Dubois, for the reasons that T2E is giving.
Tim Stuart (4:20:32 PM): UK, is your list based mostly on ceiling?
DeShawn Jackson (4:20:37 PM): much better at hitting the offspeed pitch
Todd Andrews (4:20:49 PM): Petrick is 20, extremely polished for his age, best sinker in the system (depending on Wylie) as to improve, but has the highest ceiling.
Todd Andrews (4:21:08 PM): Yes, I value ceiling when regarding prospects,
Tinkers2Evers (4:21:22 PM): petrick is good
Matt Christenson (4:21:28 PM): Two votes for Dubois, one each for Pinto and Petrick. Tim and Tinkers, which of the two pitchers do you prefer?
Tinkers2Evers (4:21:29 PM): but he's not the sure thing dubois is
Tinkers2Evers (4:21:38 PM): i prefer pinto
Tinkers2Evers (4:22:05 PM): he's nearly MLB ready and has shown good stuff and K rates
DeShawn Jackson (4:22:44 PM): I'll switch to Petrick if it's between him and JD
Tim Stuart (4:23:28 PM): It depends on what you mean by prefer. If I the Cubs and I was doing a trade where I had to choose one of those guys to hang onto, it would be a difficult decision. In my mind, there's not a lot of separation between Petrick, Pinto, Dubois and Marshall. They all have different strengths, readiness and ceiling.
Tim Stuart (4:23:39 PM): I guess it comes down to what we want to weight the highest.
Matt Christenson (4:23:46 PM): Raw and UK, why take Petrick over Dubois? As Tim and Tinkers point out, JD has proven himself every step of the way and is very close to the majors. Is Petrick's ceiling that high?
Tim Stuart (4:24:15 PM): Or is Dubois ceiling that low/
DeShawn Jackson (4:24:44 PM): I think Petrick's ceiling is pretty high
Tinkers2Evers (4:24:53 PM): i dont' think JD's ceiling is low at all
Todd Andrews (4:25:15 PM): I think Dubois is the surest bet, b/c of his age and production at AAA, not b/c of his ceiling. I think his ceiling is that of someone who can hit .270-.280 25-30 HRs. Avg. corner OF'er, IMO, while Petrick has the ceiling of a poor #1/strong #2 starter.
Tinkers2Evers (4:25:17 PM): his power/patience is exceptional
Tinkers2Evers (4:25:43 PM): petrick has a long way to go before he's a #2 starter
Tinkers2Evers (4:26:07 PM): his secondary pitches are developing
Todd Andrews (4:26:10 PM): There's no doubt, he has quite a ways to go, but that "potential" is there.
DeShawn Jackson (4:26:12 PM): yeah, but his sinker is legit. He's huge. Poor man's Zambrano, but more polished at this stage
Tinkers2Evers (4:26:25 PM): but they are the #2 type pitches
DeShawn Jackson (4:26:25 PM): at a similar stage, I should say
Tim Stuart (4:26:32 PM): Dubois numbers that you project, UK, are close to the numbers everyone is lamenting we're losing from Alou.
Tinkers2Evers (4:26:47 PM): plus dubois has superior patience than alou
Todd Andrews (4:26:50 PM): And the Cubs speak highly of his makeup.
Tinkers2Evers (4:27:22 PM): the cubs speak highly of just about everyone's makeup
Todd Andrews (4:27:59 PM): I agree, but Dubois hasn't been the rectum that Alou turned out to be as well as the salary difference.
Tim Stuart (4:28:13 PM): LOL. More advantages!
Tim Stuart (4:29:01 PM): I really wouldn't be upset to see Petrick, Marshall, Pinto and Dubois in any order. It comes down to weighting readiness, ceiling and likelihood to reach it to me.
Tinkers2Evers (4:29:12 PM): what he says
Tinkers2Evers (4:29:20 PM): for that reason
DeShawn Jackson (4:29:25 PM): I rank Pinto high, but would be least sad to see him go
Tinkers2Evers (4:29:34 PM): i go dubois-pinto-petrick-marshall
Todd Andrews (4:29:52 PM): I have no problem putting JD at #5, either, I think Petrick has the highets ceiling.
Tinkers2Evers (4:29:57 PM): but i won't object to interchanging petrick and pinto
Todd Andrews (4:30:12 PM): I'd go Petrick, Dubois, Pint, Marshall.
DeShawn Jackson (4:30:20 PM): ditto
Tinkers2Evers (4:30:54 PM): so it's 2 dubois against 2 petricks
Tim Stuart (4:30:59 PM): I can agree to that, though we haven't discussed the merits of the two lefites against each other.
Tim Stuart (4:31:27 PM): How much does Marshall's finger injury count against him?
Tinkers2Evers (4:31:37 PM): petrick just seems too far away for me to put him above dubois
Tinkers2Evers (4:31:42 PM): i love his ceiling too
Tim Stuart (4:33:28 PM): Pinto is certainly more proven at AA.
Tinkers2Evers (4:33:29 PM): control- ad marshall
Todd Andrews (4:33:36 PM): I'd rate Pinto ahead of Marshall at this stage.
Tinkers2Evers (4:33:40 PM): closeness to majors- pinto
Todd Andrews (4:33:41 PM): Though, minimal
Tinkers2Evers (4:33:45 PM): injuries conerns- pinto
Tim Stuart (4:33:58 PM): I think Marshalls curve is a better pitch than Pinto's slider, though I give the fastball advantage to Pinto.
Tim Stuart (4:34:10 PM): I'm not upset by either order and had Pinto ranked ahead, anyway.
DeShawn Jackson (4:34:14 PM): agreed
DeShawn Jackson (4:34:31 PM): had Pinto ranked higher, but I think Marshall has slightly more upside
Tinkers2Evers (4:34:34 PM): did we ever decide on dubois/petrick
DeShawn Jackson (4:34:45 PM): Dubois, I thought
Tinkers2Evers (4:34:49 PM): oh okay
DeShawn Jackson (4:35:05 PM): I agree Marshall's curve > Pinto's slider
Tinkers2Evers (4:35:16 PM): but pinto has a change
Tinkers2Evers (4:35:21 PM): what is marhsall's third pitch
Todd Andrews (4:35:25 PM): If Pinto's best pitch is his change-up, it makes his FB that much better. I'm not sure that Marshall's curve makes his FB that much better.
Matt Christenson (4:35:37 PM): So, if I'm reading you guys right, your #5-#8 would read Dubois, Petrick, Pinto, Marshall?
Tinkers2Evers (4:35:42 PM): yea
Todd Andrews (4:35:47 PM): Yep.
Tim Stuart (4:35:54 PM): Yes.
DeShawn Jackson (4:36:01 PM): yep
DeShawn Jackson (4:36:16 PM): Marshall has a change too
Todd Andrews (4:36:26 PM): he seldom uses it, though
Tinkers2Evers (4:36:27 PM): but from what i udnerstand, it isn't MLB ready
DeShawn Jackson (4:36:32 PM): curve 2 diff speeds
Tinkers2Evers (4:36:32 PM): yea
Tinkers2Evers (4:36:38 PM): still a curve
Tinkers2Evers (4:36:52 PM): he'll need a third pitch
DeShawn Jackson (4:36:56 PM): I didn't see the change at all, he didnt' need it in A ball though
Todd Andrews (4:37:11 PM): the change-up will be key
Todd Andrews (4:37:21 PM): it isn't there yet.
Tinkers2Evers (4:37:21 PM): yep
Tim Stuart (4:37:28 PM): Command is another factor here and that's where I think Marshall has an advantage.
DeShawn Jackson (4:37:41 PM): I think he'll get bigger/stronger, fastball will get faster....changeup will come after
DeShawn Jackson (4:37:49 PM): HUGE advantage, Tim
Todd Andrews (4:37:57 PM): Both need to add strength, especially Marshall, in his bottom half.
Tim Stuart (4:37:58 PM): He didn't show it in AA, but I think he can spot his pitches better than Pinto.
Tinkers2Evers (4:38:13 PM): i'll wait til he can prove himself above low-A
Tim Stuart (4:38:19 PM): That's true, UK. Pinto is certainly closer to ready.
Tinkers2Evers (4:38:19 PM): he's a college pitcher
Tinkers2Evers (4:38:28 PM): he should be able to manage low-A hitters
DeShawn Jackson (4:38:30 PM): Off topic: Was anyone else impressed with Rich Hill yesterday?
Tim Stuart (4:38:32 PM): He was young for a college guy, though.
Tim Stuart (4:38:35 PM): YES
Tinkers2Evers (4:38:36 PM): yes
Todd Andrews (4:38:37 PM): I missed it.
DeShawn Jackson (4:38:49 PM): how hard was he throwing?
Todd Andrews (4:38:49 PM): How did the FB/curve look?
Tim Stuart (4:38:51 PM): All his pitches were caught, for one thing.
Todd Andrews (4:39:00 PM): He has a heavy FB as well.
Tim Stuart (4:39:17 PM): I don't know if he missed the zone on ihs curve even once. His command of the fastball was a bit erratic.
Matt Christenson (4:36:21 PM): That settles that, then. Now we get to the point where our pool is less agreed upon.
Matt Christenson (4:39:21 PM): Candidates for the next pool: Mitre, Leicester, Wellemeyer, Brownlie, Grant Johnson, Wuertz, Murton, and the trio of catchers. Loved Hill's curve yesterday, btw.
Tinkers2Evers (4:39:41 PM): are we considering mitre and welly?
DeShawn Jackson (4:39:41 PM): I think Mitre should be out.....50+ innings last year
DeShawn Jackson (4:39:55 PM): I think Welly should be out too, 50 career IP
Tinkers2Evers (4:39:59 PM): yea
Todd Andrews (4:40:02 PM): Agreed
Tinkers2Evers (4:40:07 PM): if they are out
Tim Stuart (4:40:11 PM): Okay. I'll go with majority here.
Tinkers2Evers (4:40:12 PM): i'd put leicester at 9
Matt Christenson (4:40:16 PM): I included everybody on any list for the pool candidates... but I have no objections to excluding guys with enough MLB time.
Matt Christenson (4:40:33 PM): OK... so no Mitre or Welly.
DeShawn Jackson (4:40:40 PM): ICE
Tinkers2Evers (4:40:54 PM): ice man at #9
Todd Andrews (4:40:58 PM): After some thought, I agree with Leicester.
Matt Christenson (4:41:11 PM): Why Leicester over the other pitchers?
Tinkers2Evers (4:41:12 PM): keeping down the BB's is key
Tinkers2Evers (4:41:19 PM): and he showed he's capable of doing that last yaer
Tim Stuart (4:41:21 PM): Ice for me. I love the increase in command he's shown.
DeShawn Jackson (4:41:37 PM): ditto
Tim Stuart (4:42:02 PM): Leicester has long been regarded as a high risk/reward pitcher based on his command. it's come and so has he.
Tim Stuart (4:42:33 PM): I'd really like to see him as #5 starter at this point, actually
Tinkers2Evers (4:42:49 PM): if they intend to make him a starter
Tinkers2Evers (4:42:53 PM): he needs more work in AAA
Tim Stuart (4:42:55 PM): And I'd like to see Welly in the Iowa rotation.
DeShawn Jackson (4:43:02 PM): definitely
Tim Stuart (4:43:12 PM): definitiely to which?
DeShawn Jackson (4:43:19 PM): I think Ice is fine in the pen. Would like to see him take on Farns' role
DeShawn Jackson (4:43:26 PM): definitely to Wellemeyer
Tinkers2Evers (4:43:40 PM): #10 is difficult for me
Tinkers2Evers (4:43:46 PM): i dont' see a clear choice
DeShawn Jackson (4:44:59 PM): I'll go with Johnson at 10
Tim Stuart (4:45:07 PM): Grant Johnson, wuertz or Nolasco
DeShawn Jackson (4:45:41 PM): brownlie, and Marmol have to be considered
Todd Andrews (4:45:45 PM): Johnson
Tim Stuart (4:46:12 PM): As you can see from my rankings, I'm really soured on Brownlie.
Tim Stuart (4:46:26 PM): I don't think he's going to regain his lost MPH and I don't think he'll survive without them.
Tinkers2Evers (4:46:27 PM): same
DeShawn Jackson (4:46:28 PM): I don't like Brownlie anymore
Todd Andrews (4:46:29 PM): Between, Johnson, Brownlie, and Marmol, I'd surprise some and go with Marmol.
DeShawn Jackson (4:46:49 PM): feel bad for him though, I agree with you Tim
Tinkers2Evers (4:46:50 PM): i'd go with marmol or murton
Tinkers2Evers (4:47:04 PM): i like murton more than many others
Tinkers2Evers (4:47:09 PM): he has a solid skillset
Tinkers2Evers (4:47:14 PM): with walks, some power and average
Todd Andrews (4:47:22 PM): I haven't soured on Brownlie as much, but he has gone downhill.
Tim Stuart (4:47:40 PM): If Murton doesn't develop more power, he'll never make the bigs.
DeShawn Jackson (4:47:54 PM): I'm worried that Murton will top out at average in all his skills
Tinkers2Evers (4:48:02 PM): he hit 13 HR last year
Todd Andrews (4:48:06 PM): He projects as #4-#5 starter, everything I've heard about Brownlie has been amazing about his approach.
Tinkers2Evers (4:48:09 PM): there is some potential
Todd Andrews (4:48:29 PM): Plus, he has been productive, but a lower ceiling that most ranked around 10.
Tim Stuart (4:48:40 PM): I look at Brownlie and I see the 2004 version of Matt Morris.
Tinkers2Evers (4:48:49 PM): i wouldn't put brownlie in the top 15
Tinkers2Evers (4:48:57 PM): he's not the pitcher he once was
Tinkers2Evers (4:49:03 PM): and i don't think he ever will be
Tinkers2Evers (4:49:09 PM): the K rates, the fastball
Tinkers2Evers (4:49:17 PM): it all points downhill
DeShawn Jackson (4:49:26 PM): yep
Tim Stuart (4:49:29 PM): His curve has lost bite, too, I believe
Tinkers2Evers (4:49:37 PM): yea
Tinkers2Evers (4:49:44 PM): and his fastball doesn't move as much
Todd Andrews (4:49:46 PM): But, he has improved in other areas, change, location.
DeShawn Jackson (4:49:48 PM): so, who's 10? Johnson?
Tinkers2Evers (4:50:02 PM): he's so unproved
Todd Andrews (4:50:14 PM): I'm going with Marmol at 10.
Tinkers2Evers (4:50:15 PM): and injury worries are there
Tim Stuart (4:50:18 PM): UK - I'm all for Marmol, just not this high yet.
Tinkers2Evers (4:50:20 PM): so i wouldnt put johnson in the top 10
Tinkers2Evers (4:50:26 PM): i wouldn't be against marmol
Todd Andrews (4:51:11 PM): We have Johnson, Murton, and Marmol as the 3 possibilities.
Tinkers2Evers (4:51:20 PM): i'll go with either murton or marmol
DeShawn Jackson (4:51:25 PM): I'd rank both over Murton
Matt Christenson (4:51:25 PM): We have a couple yeses for Johnsons, a couple no's. What are his +/-?
Tinkers2Evers (4:51:26 PM): im against johnson
Tim Stuart (4:51:31 PM): What is the separation between Leicester and Wuertz at this point?
Tinkers2Evers (4:51:38 PM): johnson is so unproven
DeShawn Jackson (4:51:41 PM): forgot about Wuertz
Matt Christenson (4:51:53 PM): Wasn't Johnson just drafted last summer, though?
Tinkers2Evers (4:52:01 PM): yea
Todd Andrews (4:52:04 PM): injuries as well for johnson.
Tim Stuart (4:52:06 PM): UK - you expressed concern about Wuertz and lefty hitters, right?
DeShawn Jackson (4:52:09 PM): I love Wuertz. He has been amazing since becoming a reliever
Tinkers2Evers (4:52:10 PM): wuertz doesn't have the power stuff of leicester
Todd Andrews (4:52:12 PM): labrums aren't fun
Tinkers2Evers (4:52:27 PM): and i dont' think he'll become more than a solid middle reliever
Todd Andrews (4:52:28 PM): Wuertz doesn't have a change
Tinkers2Evers (4:52:31 PM): yea
Todd Andrews (4:52:44 PM): Leicester has a splitter
Tim Stuart (4:52:45 PM): Wuertz has a tighter slider, though. Might be the best pitch either one has.
Tim Stuart (4:52:59 PM): Though he doesn't have the repotroire.
DeShawn Jackson (4:52:54 PM): I'm with you Tim
Tinkers2Evers (4:53:59 PM): but Wuertz at #10 seems high
Tinkers2Evers (4:54:05 PM): the 12-14 range yes
Todd Andrews (4:54:07 PM): Wuertz is a 2 pitch pitcher best suited in a situational/setup role
Tim Stuart (4:54:07 PM): For relief, I'm not sure the # of pitches matters as much as the quality
Tinkers2Evers (4:54:08 PM): but 10 seems very high
Todd Andrews (4:54:28 PM): I think Leicester has the ability to start and has started, if the Cubs become creative at the ML level.
Tim Stuart (4:54:49 PM): Plus, if you buy into the "mental" aspects of closing, Wuertz has shown that at Iowa.
Tinkers2Evers (4:54:58 PM): i don't buy it
Tim Stuart (4:54:59 PM): What about Nolasco?
Todd Andrews (4:55:04 PM): Leicester would be restricted as a reliever, long-term, I cant say the same thing for Wuertz.
Tinkers2Evers (4:55:05 PM): forgot about nolasco
Tinkers2Evers (4:55:13 PM): he could be considered
Todd Andrews (4:55:28 PM): I have Nolasco below Murton, Johnson, and Marmol.
DeShawn Jackson (4:55:42 PM): me too
Tinkers2Evers (4:55:55 PM): i think people are ranking him down for his AAA performance
Tinkers2Evers (4:55:57 PM): but he was just 21
Tim Stuart (4:56:06 PM): UK - What's your argument for Murton
Tinkers2Evers (4:56:07 PM): and he did just fine in AA
DeShawn Jackson (4:56:40 PM): I think Nolasco is solid, but nothing more
DeShawn Jackson (4:56:48 PM): He does nothing spectacular
Tinkers2Evers (4:56:56 PM): neither does mitre
DeShawn Jackson (4:57:07 PM): but Mitre has had more success
DeShawn Jackson (4:57:19 PM): at a higher level
Tim Stuart (4:57:01 PM): The HR rate is what concerns me with Ricky
Tim Stuart (4:57:16 PM): Mitre does an exceptional job at keeping the ball on the ground.
DeShawn Jackson (4:57:22 PM): that too
Tinkers2Evers (4:57:27 PM): okay
Todd Andrews (4:57:31 PM): 2nd best pure hitter in the system, great eye at the plate, decent power projection. (Murton)
Tinkers2Evers (4:57:42 PM): that's my reasoning as well
Tim Stuart (4:58:07 PM): Anyone know what Marmol was hitting with his fastball last year?
DeShawn Jackson (4:58:12 PM): strangely enough, Murton was less patient in the Cubs system
Todd Andrews (4:58:28 PM): 90-93 with movement.
DeShawn Jackson (4:58:31 PM): 91-93 when I saw Marmol early on, believe he topped at 95 though
Tinkers2Evers (4:58:37 PM): and he just switched to pitching
Tinkers2Evers (4:58:43 PM): he has alot of room to improve
Todd Andrews (4:58:44 PM): BA rated it at +-+
Todd Andrews (4:59:28 PM): Exactly, why I have him rated as high, he has been pitching for 2 years
Tim Stuart (4:59:29 PM): We're getting into a few guys I haven't seen play. marmol is one, Murton is another.
Todd Andrews (4:59:43 PM): He went from AZL to Low-A.
DeShawn Jackson (4:59:58 PM): Marmol got in a lot of trouble when I saw him, but worked out of it.....piled up the pitch count, though
Tim Stuart (5:00:02 PM): he's still young, too, though it seems he's been around forever.
DeShawn Jackson (5:00:14 PM): Marmol has been around forever
DeShawn Jackson (5:00:31 PM): this gonna be his 5th year right?
Tim Stuart (5:00:34 PM): I'll go with Marmol at 10 if there are concerns about Johnson's health.
Tinkers2Evers (5:00:36 PM): yea
Tinkers2Evers (5:00:45 PM): he was rule 5 eligible last year
Tinkers2Evers (5:00:50 PM): yea
Tinkers2Evers (5:00:55 PM): marmol at 10 is fine with me
DeShawn Jackson (5:00:58 PM): me too
Tim Stuart (5:01:00 PM): Wuertz being limted as a reliever and murton's power.
Todd Andrews (5:01:05 PM): Works for me.
Tinkers2Evers (5:01:16 PM): #11 is murton for me
Todd Andrews (5:01:28 PM): Johnson for me.
Todd Andrews (5:01:31 PM): at 11
DeShawn Jackson (5:01:36 PM): Johnson
Tinkers2Evers (5:01:40 PM): i wouldn't be against johnson
DeShawn Jackson (5:01:49 PM): high risk/high reward
Tinkers2Evers (5:01:50 PM): but i'm concerned about him
Tinkers2Evers (5:01:55 PM): true
DeShawn Jackson (5:02:03 PM): 95 mph fastball, nice slider
Tim Stuart (5:02:12 PM): Johnson for me, too.
Tim Stuart (5:02:26 PM): Murton has a career .425 SLG
Tinkers2Evers (5:02:56 PM): and a career AVg of .290
Todd Andrews (5:02:58 PM): .367 OBP in pitchers' leagues.
Tinkers2Evers (5:03:09 PM): yea
Tim Stuart (5:03:10 PM): Is the Penn a pitcher's league?
Tim Stuart (5:03:35 PM): He's average in the OF with a weak arm, right?
Tim Stuart (5:03:46 PM): So defense isn't going to give him value.
Tinkers2Evers (5:03:52 PM): penn is a pitchers league
Tim Stuart (5:04:05 PM): he's going to have to earn his spot with production in LF.
Tinkers2Evers (5:04:13 PM): worst hitters league according to BP
Tim Stuart (5:04:17 PM): Without speed, he's going to have to get on base AND hit for power.
Tim Stuart (5:04:19 PM): I don't see it.
DeShawn Jackson (5:04:25 PM): yeah, I've heard bad things about his D. That he may be forced to go to 1B
Tim Stuart (5:04:28 PM): Not yet, anyway.
Tinkers2Evers (5:04:36 PM): if he can hit .290/.360/420 he could have a career
Tim Stuart (5:04:36 PM): As a 1B, he's lost.
Tim Stuart (5:05:01 PM): How many slow .360/.420 corners are out there?
Todd Andrews (5:05:11 PM): The power will have to be there, I'm still holding out faith for adjustments in his swing.
Tinkers2Evers (5:05:21 PM): he's not slow
Tim Stuart (5:05:25 PM): he's the current incarnation of Ben Grieve, but right handed.
Todd Andrews (5:05:30 PM): The reports about his power are there, just BP power which is frustrating.
Tinkers2Evers (5:05:35 PM): he's an avg. runner
Tim Stuart (5:05:51 PM): Okay, so not as bad as Ben on the paths and in the field, but still
Tinkers2Evers (5:05:59 PM): ben greive w/a plus batting average is not that bad
Tim Stuart (5:06:08 PM): He's sounding like a ceiling of 4th OF to me.
Tim Stuart (5:06:23 PM): Unless he translates the BP power to usable power
Tinkers2Evers (5:06:30 PM): power is often the last tool to develop
Tinkers2Evers (5:06:33 PM): i hold out hope
Tinkers2Evers (5:06:36 PM): and if it doens't
Tinkers2Evers (5:06:46 PM): he still has the walks and batting average to go back on
Tim Stuart (5:06:57 PM): He's 6'1", 226 lbs. How much projection is left with his power?
Todd Andrews (5:07:08 PM): That's pretty stocky
Tinkers2Evers (5:07:25 PM): 225 pounds is pretty big
Tim Stuart (5:07:45 PM): I think he's as strong as he's going to get. Which is what worries me.
Tim Stuart (5:07:56 PM): He's going to have to change his swing plane to generate loft.
Tim Stuart (5:08:03 PM): I think he'll lose contact skill by doing so.
Todd Andrews (5:08:05 PM): Exactly.
Tinkers2Evers (5:08:29 PM): but who rates above him?
Matt Christenson (5:08:41 PM): It looks like the majority of opinion is with Johnson for #11. T2E doesn't look like he'd object to Murton at #12. What about the rest of you?
Todd Andrews (5:08:58 PM): I'd rate it, Johnson at 11 and Murton at 12
Tinkers2Evers (5:09:05 PM): i don't see anyone above murton for #12
Tim Stuart (5:09:17 PM): I've got a bunch of people over Murton. I think Cedeno will be a better SS than Murton LF.
DeShawn Jackson (5:09:37 PM): talk about someone without power
Tinkers2Evers (5:09:48 PM): or patience
Tim Stuart (5:09:55 PM): You don't need as much power (or patience) at SS.
Tinkers2Evers (5:10:04 PM): his offensive value is all BA
Tinkers2Evers (5:10:08 PM): that worries me
Tim Stuart (5:10:11 PM): But I am swimming against the stream here.
Tinkers2Evers (5:10:20 PM): the only other prospect i'd consider above murton
Tinkers2Evers (5:10:22 PM): is soto
Tim Stuart (5:10:25 PM): I think I'm voted down on Murton
Todd Andrews (5:10:36 PM): Im voting for matt
Tinkers2Evers (5:10:46 PM): same
Matt Christenson (5:10:50 PM): So Cedeno, Wuertz, and Murton in consideration for #12. Anybody else? Lewis? Nolasco? Any of the catchers?
DeShawn Jackson (5:10:50 PM): ditto
Todd Andrews (5:10:59 PM): who are the next candidates?
Matt Christenson (5:11:01 PM): OK... Murton for #12.
DeShawn Jackson (5:11:05 PM): I could do Wuertz ahead of Murton
Tim Stuart (5:11:18 PM): I'm for Wuertz at #13 then.
Tinkers2Evers (5:11:19 PM): i've got soto at #13
Tinkers2Evers (5:11:27 PM): but i won't object to wuertz
Matt Christenson (5:11:58 PM): Does everyone agree with the rankins of the catchers?
Todd Andrews (5:12:12 PM): I've got Nolasco, Sing, Lewis, Soto, Borwnlie among my next group.
Tim Stuart (5:12:12 PM): I think there's a lot of disagreement with my ranking of Fox.
Matt Christenson (5:12:17 PM): I.E. Soto's better than Fox who is better than Reed, etc.
Tinkers2Evers (5:12:18 PM): yea
Tinkers2Evers (5:12:28 PM): soto way above fox
Tim Stuart (5:12:35 PM): I'd go Fox / Reed / Soto
Todd Andrews (5:12:35 PM): I've got Reed higher than Fox.
Tinkers2Evers (5:12:44 PM): soto/reed/fox
Tim Stuart (5:12:46 PM): But I could live with Reed / Fox / Soto
Matt Christenson (5:12:50 PM): So no one agrees at all on the catchers, then?
Todd Andrews (5:12:50 PM): Soto, Reed, Fox.
DeShawn Jackson (5:12:52 PM): Soto/ Reed/ Fox
DeShawn Jackson (5:12:58 PM): lol
Tinkers2Evers (5:13:23 PM): looks like 3 of us agree
Matt Christenson (5:13:25 PM): From what I've seen, Soto's probably the best defensively of the three, correct?
DeShawn Jackson (5:13:27 PM): I do think Fox is a big time sleeper next season. Had a nice AFL, and a solid 2nd half in A ball
Tim Stuart (5:13:32 PM): I think Fox showed a lot with his defense last year.
Tinkers2Evers (5:13:50 PM): could we go #14 soto #15 reed #16 fox?
Tim Stuart (5:13:53 PM): he's got by far the most power potential of the three
Todd Andrews (5:13:56 PM): Soto is the best in the system defensively.
Tim Stuart (5:14:04 PM): Soto is best defensively
Tinkers2Evers (5:14:09 PM): soto has the all around game
Tim Stuart (5:14:14 PM): Reed has the best contact / OBP game.
Tinkers2Evers (5:14:16 PM): defense, average, walks
DeShawn Jackson (5:14:20 PM): yeah, I think Fox will be solid defensively
Tim Stuart (5:14:23 PM): Soto has the lowest upside of the threee
Todd Andrews (5:14:27 PM): I think Reed has the most offensive potential, Fox-most power, Soto most balanced.
Tinkers2Evers (5:14:28 PM): soto has also shown himself in AA
Tinkers2Evers (5:14:44 PM): fox hasn't done anything above low-A and reed above rookie ball
Todd Andrews (5:15:28 PM): Who's going to be at #13?
Todd Andrews (5:15:33 PM): Is it Wuertz?
Tinkers2Evers (5:15:37 PM): i think so
DeShawn Jackson (5:15:39 PM): yeah
Tim Stuart (5:15:39 PM): I vote for Wuertz
Todd Andrews (5:15:43 PM): I'd prefer Lewis, but that's just me.
Tinkers2Evers (5:16:11 PM): i have lewis down
Matt Christenson (5:16:12 PM): OK, Wuertz at #13. Would any of you rate Lewis (or anyone else) ahead of the catchers? Should we break up the catchers?
DeShawn Jackson (5:16:25 PM): yes, ahead of the catchers
Todd Andrews (5:16:30 PM): I'd break up the Cs
Tinkers2Evers (5:16:33 PM): i would rate lewis below soto and reed
Tinkers2Evers (5:16:38 PM): but above fox
Tim Stuart (5:16:39 PM): Let me ask a question about Fox - If his defense weren't a concern, where would you rate him?
Todd Andrews (5:16:48 PM): There's a steep difference between Soto and Fox.
Tim Stuart (5:17:09 PM): catchers that can hit in the .280's with a SLG in the upper .400's aren't common.
DeShawn Jackson (5:17:10 PM): I think Fox will be ok on D.
DeShawn Jackson (5:17:27 PM): putting the ball in play is my issue with Fox
Tinkers2Evers (5:17:32 PM): and walking
DeShawn Jackson (5:17:40 PM): yep
Tim Stuart (5:17:41 PM): I believe Fox led our minor league C's in throwing out baserunners last year.
Tinkers2Evers (5:17:51 PM): and he made a boatload of errors
DeShawn Jackson (5:18:05 PM): 48%
DeShawn Jackson (5:18:11 PM): something like that
Tim Stuart (5:18:31 PM): He seems to have done a good job handling the staff, too
Tim Stuart (5:18:40 PM): It's really just the passed balls that are an issue.
Tim Stuart (5:19:03 PM): And it's not the hard ones he has a problem with. he moves okay behind the plate from what I've seen.
Tim Stuart (5:19:15 PM): It seems to be a concentration issue
Tinkers2Evers (5:19:19 PM): he doesn't have a ton of time though
Tim Stuart (5:19:24 PM): which I think he can overcome.
Tinkers2Evers (5:19:26 PM): he's not exactly young
Tim Stuart (5:19:37 PM): Catchers are allowed to develop more slowly, though.
Tim Stuart (5:20:21 PM): Of all the C's, I think Soto has the lowest ceiling.
Tinkers2Evers (5:20:29 PM): why?
Tinkers2Evers (5:20:46 PM): he showed decent power
Todd Andrews (5:20:47 PM): I think if his defense would allow to stick at C or the Cubs stuck w/him, I would rate him higher.
DeShawn Jackson (5:20:47 PM): yeah, Soto won't hit for much average, but will put the ball in play and get on base
Tim Stuart (5:20:49 PM): I don't think he's going to develop the power to compare with Fox or have the hitting skills of Reed.
Tinkers2Evers (5:20:49 PM): good patience
Tinkers2Evers (5:21:12 PM): and soto is still very young
DeShawn Jackson (5:21:37 PM): At best, I see Soto as a starter for a few years, but mostly a backup
Tim Stuart (5:21:43 PM): I didn't see Soto play last year when he broke out, but in the past he just didn't impress me as a hitter.
Tim Stuart (5:21:51 PM): I see him as a backup in the bigs.
DeShawn Jackson (5:21:56 PM): Fox could be a starter, Ramon Hernandez without the D
Tim Stuart (5:22:03 PM): I can see Reed and/or Fox being all-stars one day.
Tinkers2Evers (5:22:06 PM): soto does everything at least average
Tinkers2Evers (5:22:13 PM): there are no huge concerns about him
Tim Stuart (5:22:26 PM): everything average doesn't make for an impact guy, though.
Tinkers2Evers (5:22:30 PM): no
Todd Andrews (5:22:33 PM): He's in that mold of Molina, with more offensive skills, but not as consistent defensively.
Tinkers2Evers (5:22:37 PM): but it makes him an average catcher
Tim Stuart (5:22:48 PM): It makes him a likely backup.
Todd Andrews (5:22:58 PM): He's the best bet to become a ML catcher at this stage.
Tim Stuart (5:23:05 PM): I think he's going to hit in the .250 range with decent patience and not much pop as a pro.
Tim Stuart (5:23:20 PM): Yeah, but I thought you biased things by upside!
Todd Andrews (5:23:51 PM): Defense playes a role when gauging catchers.
Tinkers2Evers (5:24:04 PM): i haven't seen anyone metion that there are defensive conerns about reed
Tim Stuart (5:24:09 PM): I have.
Tinkers2Evers (5:24:14 PM): if he moves off catcher, it could really hurt his value
Tinkers2Evers (5:24:25 PM): soto is the only one i am sure will stay at catcher
Tim Stuart (5:24:29 PM): But I've heard he (Reed) could have the athleticism to pull a Biggio and go to second.
DeShawn Jackson (5:24:29 PM): If he hits like his brother, he'll be ok, Catcher or not
Todd Andrews (5:24:30 PM): I think Reed is more likely to stick at C than Fox, while Soto is more likely to stick than either of them.
Tinkers2Evers (5:24:43 PM): agreed
Todd Andrews (5:25:11 PM): Soto has to stick at C, unlike Fox or Reed, which says something about their offensive abilities.
DeShawn Jackson (5:25:17 PM): Fox will stick
Todd Andrews (5:25:30 PM): I'd still go... Soto, Reed, Fox.
Tim Stuart (5:25:37 PM): I think Fox is going to stick at C. But I can't back that up in the face of the passed balls.
DeShawn Jackson (5:25:38 PM): No future if he moves
Tim Stuart (5:25:46 PM): He'll still stick there for another year, at least.
Matt Christenson (5:26:03 PM): As far as catchers go, it seems Soto may have the lowest potential, but is by far the most likely to reach that potential. He has no huge strengths, but no real weaknesses either. Reed looks to be decent on the contact/OBP side of the offensive coin, while Fox has the power potential. There are doubts about Fox's and Reed's ability to stick at catcher, howerver.
Tim Stuart (5:26:14 PM): Fox could hit enough for a corner OF. he's shown more usable power than Murton at this point.
Tinkers2Evers (5:26:32 PM): fox isn't athletic enough for a corner outfield position
DeShawn Jackson (5:26:39 PM): Can he play there though?
Tinkers2Evers (5:26:44 PM): nor does he get on base enough
Todd Andrews (5:27:00 PM): 17BBs in 366 is a concern
Tim Stuart (5:27:12 PM): He had a better walk rate in 2003.
Todd Andrews (5:27:31 PM): 8 in 100
Tim Stuart (5:27:48 PM): Not great, but better than 4.71 in 100
Tinkers2Evers (5:28:00 PM): and a smaller sample
Tim Stuart (5:28:04 PM): True.
DeShawn Jackson (5:28:10 PM): Fox loves the first pitch
Tim Stuart (5:28:26 PM): The contact rate for Fox is a concern, but he has the power to backup a 20% K rate.
Todd Andrews (5:28:38 PM): espec. for a c
Tim Stuart (5:28:42 PM): yep.
Tinkers2Evers (5:28:53 PM): im more worried about his walks
Tim Stuart (5:29:08 PM): So, the key with Fox seems entirely wrapped up around two things - the ability to stay at C and the walk rate.
Tinkers2Evers (5:29:20 PM): pretty much
Tinkers2Evers (5:29:23 PM): two very big concerns
Todd Andrews (5:29:51 PM): yep
DeShawn Jackson (5:29:54 PM): what number are we on?
Todd Andrews (5:29:58 PM): 14
Matt Christenson (5:30:01 PM): Sorry, Tim, but I think the consensus is against you on the catchers. It seems raw, UK, and T2E are set on Soto, Reed, and Fox, in that order. Am i right?
Tinkers2Evers (5:30:09 PM): you are correct
Todd Andrews (5:30:10 PM): yep
Tim Stuart (5:30:14 PM): Speaking of small samples, Fox did post a .359 OBP in the AFL.
DeShawn Jackson (5:30:16 PM): I rate Lewis, Nolasco, and maybe Connolly ahead of the catchers
Matt Christenson (5:30:18 PM): Did you settle on Wuertz for #13... some discussion that it should be Lewis
Tim Stuart (5:30:36 PM): I don't like Lewis
DeShawn Jackson (5:30:40 PM): yeah, Wuertz 13
Tinkers2Evers (5:30:40 PM): i think wuertz is #13
Tinkers2Evers (5:30:45 PM): i don't love lewis either
Tinkers2Evers (5:30:52 PM): the K's are a huge concern
Tim Stuart (5:30:55 PM): And it's only partially because he represents what's left of Juan Cruz
DeShawn Jackson (5:31:19 PM): lol
Tim Stuart (5:31:28 PM): His AA numbers were almost entirely driven by batting average on balls in play
Matt Christenson (5:31:32 PM): Wuertz for #13, then. #14: Lewis, Nolasco, Connolly, Soto, Cedeno, Blasko...
Tim Stuart (5:31:48 PM): I'd go with Nolasco over the catchers.
DeShawn Jackson (5:31:49 PM): yeah, BABIP was ridiculous
DeShawn Jackson (5:31:57 PM): Me too
Todd Andrews (5:32:09 PM): Same.
Tinkers2Evers (5:32:15 PM): fine with me
Todd Andrews (5:32:17 PM): I'd put Sing over the Cs as well.
Tinkers2Evers (5:32:22 PM): i wouldnt
Tinkers2Evers (5:32:33 PM): id put soto at 15
Matt Christenson (5:32:34 PM): All right, Nolasco for #14... what are his strenghts/weaknesses?
Todd Andrews (5:32:57 PM): weaknesses for Nolasco, he's nothing special.
Tim Stuart (5:33:07 PM): Weakness is his propensity to give up the long ball, a rather straight fastball, no outstanding offspeed pitch
Todd Andrews (5:33:08 PM): He projects as a #4 starter
Tinkers2Evers (5:33:29 PM): plus- strong K/BB so far, decent stuff
Tim Stuart (5:34:26 PM): Strength is that he has decent stuff across the board, pretty good command of it. Something is better than it seems as he's been able to punch out lower level hitters quite consistently.
Tinkers2Evers (5:34:39 PM): his age is also a plus
Tim Stuart (5:34:56 PM): He was able to handle a double jump pretty well, too.
Tim Stuart (5:36:15 PM): BK, who are the choices here?
DeShawn Jackson (5:36:17 PM): what happened to Lewis?
DeShawn Jackson (5:36:24 PM): Nolasco ahead of Lewis?
Tinkers2Evers (5:36:26 PM): yes
Tim Stuart (5:36:29 PM): Lewis, Soto, Nolasco, who?
DeShawn Jackson (5:36:29 PM): ok
Todd Andrews (5:36:38 PM): I'd put Lewis ahead of Nolasco and Soto.
Matt Christenson (5:36:52 PM): Possibilities for #15 - Soto, Lewis, Brownlie, Cedeno, Blasko, Ryu...
Tim Stuart (5:36:53 PM): UK, can you explain the Lewis love?
Todd Andrews (5:37:01 PM): Nolasco ahead of Soto.
DeShawn Jackson (5:37:15 PM): He was a 1st round draft pick
Tinkers2Evers (5:37:27 PM): so was murton
DeShawn Jackson (5:37:28 PM): Talent is there
Tim Stuart (5:37:31 PM): So was Scott Moore and we're not discussing him
DeShawn Jackson (5:37:46 PM): Scott Moore hasn't been AA MVP though
Matt Christenson (5:37:49 PM): Yeah, but Scott Moore is no Bo Flowers..
Todd Andrews (5:38:02 PM): Plus defender, above avg. speed, line drive swing, can hit for avg.
DeShawn Jackson (5:38:17 PM): yep
Todd Andrews (5:38:26 PM): His main weakness is strikeouts.
DeShawn Jackson (5:38:27 PM): gap to gap hitter
Tim Stuart (5:39:11 PM): Do you project him as a major league starter?
Todd Andrews (5:39:13 PM): I'd like to see him increase his BBs as he progresses
Todd Andrews (5:39:16 PM): I do.
Tim Stuart (5:39:35 PM): You think he'll be good enough not to resign Walker?
DeShawn Jackson (5:39:55 PM): Not right away, but Hairston should be
Todd Andrews (5:40:03 PM): agreed w/DJ
Tim Stuart (5:40:14 PM): You think Lewis can beat out Hairston?
DeShawn Jackson (5:40:15 PM): Hairston, Lewis, and Fontenot....
Tim Stuart (5:40:33 PM): I don't see Lewis as a major league starter. Even at his ceiling
DeShawn Jackson (5:40:41 PM): really?
Tinkers2Evers (5:40:47 PM): he'll have to prove 04 wasn't a fluke
Tim Stuart (5:41:01 PM): Take his BHIP down to .300 last year at AA and you don't have much left.
DeShawn Jackson (5:41:08 PM): Hard to do that in the PCL. He could have better numbers and
Tim Stuart (5:41:12 PM): Other that a guy who plays what he gets to.
Tim Stuart (5:41:20 PM): (on defense)
Todd Andrews (5:41:27 PM): I do, I think he can become a RH version of Walker offensively, while being much better defensively.
DeShawn Jackson (5:42:13 PM): I think he'll actually add power so we can better deal with those Ks
Tim Stuart (5:42:13 PM): As for speed, the seven stolen bases would impress me more without the six caught.
Tim Stuart (5:42:50 PM): 25 K/100 PA's is a heck of a lot for a second baseman
Tinkers2Evers (5:42:54 PM): he'll turn 25 during the season
Tim Stuart (5:43:01 PM): That, too.
Todd Andrews (5:43:03 PM): He's had 30+ SBs in his career
Tinkers2Evers (5:43:06 PM): i dont see him ahead of the catchers
Tim Stuart (5:43:10 PM): And how many CS?
DeShawn Jackson (5:43:13 PM): None of them?
Tinkers2Evers (5:43:23 PM): maybe fox
DeShawn Jackson (5:43:49 PM): What about Matt Craig?
DeShawn Jackson (5:43:56 PM): should he be in this discussion
Todd Andrews (5:44:05 PM): Lewis is 77-106 in his career
Tim Stuart (5:44:55 PM): Where did we stick Brownlie?
Matt Christenson (5:45:00 PM): We haven't yet...
DeShawn Jackson (5:45:06 PM): lol
DeShawn Jackson (5:45:10 PM): oops
DeShawn Jackson (5:45:20 PM): Brownlie should be ahead of Soto
Matt Christenson (5:45:22 PM): So he should rate in the top 15?
Todd Andrews (5:45:27 PM): Right now, we have Brownlie, Lewis, Soto, Craig, etc.
Todd Andrews (5:45:40 PM): I'd put Brownlie ahead of Soto as well.
Todd Andrews (5:45:56 PM): But, Lewis ahead of Brownlie.
DeShawn Jackson (5:46:05 PM): me too
Tinkers2Evers (5:46:21 PM): soto ahead of lewis for me
Tim Stuart (5:46:30 PM): Soto ahead of Lewis
Matt Christenson (5:46:34 PM): My full list of guys yet to be placed: Brownlie, Fox, Reed, Soto, Cedeno, Lewis, Fontenot, Blasko, Ryu, Sing, Ohman, Hill, Downs, Patterson, Craig, Greenberg, Connolly, Hoffpauir, Rohlicek, Hagerty, Crouthers, Novoa...
Tinkers2Evers (5:47:03 PM): here are some numbers with lewis
Tinkers2Evers (5:47:11 PM): he had 276 BIP last year
Tinkers2Evers (5:47:20 PM): his average on BIP was .417
Tinkers2Evers (5:47:28 PM): good for 115 hits on balls in play
DeShawn Jackson (5:47:49 PM): he's lucky
Tinkers2Evers (5:47:53 PM): if you lower that BABIP to a reasonable .333
Matt Christenson (5:47:58 PM): That BABIP makes me wary that he can ever do that again...
Tinkers2Evers (5:48:06 PM): he has 92 hits on balls in play
Tinkers2Evers (5:48:08 PM): 102 hits total
Tinkers2Evers (5:48:25 PM): that'd put his BA at .268
Tim Stuart (5:48:33 PM): exactly.
Tinkers2Evers (5:48:43 PM): he wouldn't be MVP with a .268 average
Tinkers2Evers (5:48:51 PM): he wouldn't be on that many prospect lists either
Tim Stuart (5:49:10 PM): I'm also wondering...did he beef up at all to get the extra power last year? That would explain the loss in speed from the past.
DeShawn Jackson (5:49:34 PM): He's no Alex Sanchez
Todd Andrews (5:49:40 PM): Part of that is clouded by his high Ks, but he is a line drive hitter. You hit 10 triples, you're hitting line drives and speed.
Tim Stuart (5:49:42 PM): LOL. I wasn't talking about steroids.
DeShawn Jackson (5:49:57 PM): oh, nevermind then
Tinkers2Evers (5:50:05 PM): he's only listed at 5 pounds more from 2001 to 2005
Tim Stuart (5:50:27 PM): So much for that theory. Why the drastic reduction in SB's, then, I wonder?
DeShawn Jackson (5:50:56 PM): He was always on 2nd or 3rd?
Todd Andrews (5:51:33 PM): He did have 4 SBs in the 20 times he was on 1B at Iowa.
DeShawn Jackson (5:51:37 PM): Hey, I can't stay that much longer
DeShawn Jackson (5:51:42 PM): probably another 1/2 hour
Todd Andrews (5:51:44 PM): Same here
Tim Stuart (5:51:56 PM): Okay. Let's put it in overdrive, then.
Todd Andrews (5:52:05 PM): 14...
Tim Stuart (5:52:11 PM): who are the candidates for 14?
Tinkers2Evers (5:52:16 PM): nolasco i thought was 14
Todd Andrews (5:52:18 PM): I have no problem putting Soto there.
Matt Christenson (5:52:27 PM): Lewis, Soto, Brownlie sound like the front-runners to me.
DeShawn Jackson (5:52:32 PM): yeah, Nolasco was 14
Matt Christenson (5:52:37 PM): And this is for 15, not 14.
Tim Stuart (5:52:40 PM): sorry
Tinkers2Evers (5:52:42 PM): soto 15
Todd Andrews (5:52:45 PM): 15, Soto is fine
Tim Stuart (5:52:47 PM): I'd go soto, too
DeShawn Jackson (5:52:51 PM): soto it is then
Tinkers2Evers (5:52:56 PM): #16?
Matt Christenson (5:52:57 PM): That settles, that: 16?
Tim Stuart (5:52:59 PM): Reed
DeShawn Jackson (5:53:01 PM): Brownlie
Tinkers2Evers (5:53:04 PM): brownlie, lewis or reed?
Tim Stuart (5:53:05 PM): or brownlie
Todd Andrews (5:53:05 PM): Lewis, Brownlie, Craig, Sing, Reed?
Todd Andrews (5:53:13 PM): Lewis
DeShawn Jackson (5:53:21 PM): sorry, Lewis
Tinkers2Evers (5:53:27 PM): i'd go with craig or reed
Tim Stuart (5:53:42 PM): BK - cast the deciding vote here...
Tim Stuart (5:53:46 PM): You've heard the arguments
Tim Stuart (5:54:01 PM): I don't think we're likely to agree and we're split in the middle
Matt Christenson (5:54:16 PM): I can't agree with Lewis after seeing those inflated BABIP numbers. I'm going with Brownlie.
Todd Andrews (5:54:33 PM): Brownlie works for me.
Tinkers2Evers (5:54:37 PM): okay #17
DeShawn Jackson (5:54:37 PM): me too
Tinkers2Evers (5:54:41 PM): i still go reed or craig
Tim Stuart (5:54:42 PM): yep.
Todd Andrews (5:54:44 PM): Lewis
Tim Stuart (5:54:47 PM): reed
DeShawn Jackson (5:54:48 PM): so, 17 looks like Reed vs. Lewis
Tinkers2Evers (5:54:53 PM): BK?
DeShawn Jackson (5:54:54 PM): you know where I stand
DeShawn Jackson (5:55:07 PM): DICKEY LEW!
Matt Christenson (5:55:08 PM): Lewis had more support for a higher ranking, we'll take him now.
Tinkers2Evers (5:55:15 PM): okay
DeShawn Jackson (5:55:20 PM): woo hoo!
Todd Andrews (5:55:20 PM): <claps>
DeShawn Jackson (5:55:22 PM): J/K
Tinkers2Evers (5:55:23 PM): that makes #18 reed?
DeShawn Jackson (5:55:28 PM): guess so
Matt Christenson (5:55:30 PM): Sounds OK to me.
Todd Andrews (5:55:31 PM): yep.
Tinkers2Evers (5:55:36 PM): #19- craig?
Tim Stuart (5:55:40 PM): fox!!!!
Tim Stuart (5:55:43 PM): j/k
Tinkers2Evers (5:55:43 PM): NOOOOO
Todd Andrews (5:55:46 PM): what about Sing?
Matt Christenson (5:55:52 PM): Craig, Cedeno, Fox...
Tinkers2Evers (5:55:52 PM): sing is fine with me
Tinkers2Evers (5:55:59 PM): but i prefer craig
DeShawn Jackson (5:56:00 PM): I like Craig here
Todd Andrews (5:56:08 PM): Craig is fine
Tim Stuart (5:56:11 PM): I'd prefer craig over sing. similar concerns, but Craig at least has a shot at staying at 3B
Matt Christenson (5:56:12 PM): Sounds like Craig at #18.
Tinkers2Evers (5:56:18 PM): 19 i thought
DeShawn Jackson (5:56:24 PM): 19
Matt Christenson (5:56:29 PM): My bad, you're right.
Tinkers2Evers (5:56:34 PM): #20?- sing
Todd Andrews (5:56:38 PM): Cedeno, Sing?
DeShawn Jackson (5:57:03 PM): Cedeno over Sing, singles vs. power. SS vs. ???
Tinkers2Evers (5:57:10 PM): corner oF
Tim Stuart (5:57:14 PM): cedeno for me
Todd Andrews (5:57:15 PM): Agreed
Todd Andrews (5:57:19 PM): Cedeno.
Matt Christenson (5:57:21 PM): Cedeno #20.
Todd Andrews (5:57:27 PM): Sing-21?
Tinkers2Evers (5:57:30 PM): yep
DeShawn Jackson (5:57:37 PM): Connolly!
Tim Stuart (5:57:43 PM): Have we placed Wuertz?
Tinkers2Evers (5:57:46 PM): #13
Matt Christenson (5:57:50 PM): Yeah... he's up around #13, I think.
Tim Stuart (5:57:51 PM): thanks
Tim Stuart (5:58:02 PM): What about Ohman?
Todd Andrews (5:58:13 PM): Connolly, Fontenot, Ohman?
Tim Stuart (5:58:18 PM): is he shot down because he couldn't make the team?
Tinkers2Evers (5:58:22 PM): yes
Tim Stuart (5:58:23 PM): with his lack of control?
Tinkers2Evers (5:58:26 PM): yes
DeShawn Jackson (5:58:42 PM): Sing also in this discussion
Tinkers2Evers (5:58:50 PM): i like #21 sing, 22- connolly, 23- hill
Tim Stuart (5:58:52 PM): I'm going to pimp Hill a bit here after watching him yesterday
DeShawn Jackson (5:59:05 PM): he's next on my list
Tim Stuart (5:59:08 PM): He looks like he's increased his command on the curve
Tinkers2Evers (5:59:13 PM): im fine with hill at 21
DeShawn Jackson (5:59:19 PM): Connolly, Sing, Hill
Tim Stuart (5:59:24 PM): Which would put him at as high a ceiling as anyone around.
Tinkers2Evers (5:59:50 PM): correct
Tinkers2Evers (5:59:55 PM): so who is 21?
Matt Christenson (5:59:56 PM): Sounds like we have two votes for Rich at #21... anyone want to make a case for Connolly or Sing?
Tim Stuart (6:00:00 PM): I like Hill, sing, connolly
Tinkers2Evers (6:00:11 PM): that works for me tim
Todd Andrews (6:00:15 PM): I like Sing ahead of Hill.
DeShawn Jackson (6:00:27 PM): Connolly has the best control and changeup...
DeShawn Jackson (6:00:32 PM): in the system
Tim Stuart (6:00:40 PM): You didn't see Rich pitch yesterday.
Todd Andrews (6:00:44 PM): I'd go Sing, Connolly, Hill
Tim Stuart (6:00:46 PM): he looked good
Todd Andrews (6:00:57 PM): I've seen him look good at Lansing.
Tim Stuart (6:01:09 PM): He looked good against major league hitters
DeShawn Jackson (6:01:20 PM): me too, never hit the backstop unfortunately
DeShawn Jackson (6:01:42 PM): I'm cool with any of the 3 in any order
Tim Stuart (6:01:50 PM): Raw, what's your vote on Sing vs HIll?
Tinkers2Evers (6:01:52 PM): they all have their +/-
Todd Andrews (6:01:58 PM): He just turned 25 and hasn't shown any control.
Tinkers2Evers (6:02:07 PM): sing isn't young himself
Tim Stuart (6:02:09 PM): Sing repeated A+ three times.
DeShawn Jackson (6:02:28 PM): Hill over Sing, slightly
Tim Stuart (6:02:30 PM): Extenuating circumstances, I know, but still.
Todd Andrews (6:02:45 PM): He was injured in 03'.
Tim Stuart (6:02:47 PM): consensus!
Tim Stuart (6:02:58 PM): Mono, wasn't it?
DeShawn Jackson (6:03:02 PM): yep
Todd Andrews (6:03:05 PM): How much credit do you give Zisk, for helping Sing?
DeShawn Jackson (6:03:06 PM): lost 15-20 lbs
Matt Christenson (6:03:11 PM): hill 21... 22?
Tim Stuart (6:03:15 PM): Sing
Tinkers2Evers (6:03:19 PM): hill 21
Tinkers2Evers (6:03:20 PM): sing 22
Todd Andrews (6:03:23 PM): Sing-22
Tinkers2Evers (6:03:26 PM): connolly 23
Matt Christenson (6:03:27 PM): Sing #22, Connollly #23?
Tim Stuart (6:03:28 PM): connolly
Todd Andrews (6:03:29 PM): Connolly 23
DeShawn Jackson (6:03:31 PM): yep
Tim Stuart (6:03:38 PM): next group?
DeShawn Jackson (6:04:00 PM): Fox, Coats, Ohman, Patterson, Fontenot?
Tinkers2Evers (6:04:05 PM): i'd be willing to give tim fox at 24
Matt Christenson (6:04:06 PM): Fox, Ohman, Ryu, Blasko, Cedeno, Downs, Patterson
Tim Stuart (6:04:07 PM): Fontenot, Ohman, Greenberg, Downs, EP from my list
Todd Andrews (6:04:08 PM): Fontenot, Patterson, Ryu, Blasko, Ohman
Matt Christenson (6:04:11 PM): Fontenot..
Tim Stuart (6:04:13 PM): along with Fox, of course.
Todd Andrews (6:04:53 PM): I'm going with Fontenot
Tinkers2Evers (6:06:27 PM): #24?- i say fox, fontenot, patterson or ryu
DeShawn Jackson (6:06:29 PM): I'll go with Fox here
Tim Stuart (6:06:33 PM): What is special about fontenot?
Tinkers2Evers (6:06:39 PM): nothing
Tinkers2Evers (6:06:42 PM): there is nothing wrong with him either
Tim Stuart (6:06:50 PM): if Fox stays a catcher, he'll be head and shoulders above Fontenot as a 2B
DeShawn Jackson (6:06:51 PM): he can hit
DeShawn Jackson (6:07:00 PM): true
Tim Stuart (6:07:04 PM): If, I realize
Matt Christenson (6:07:13 PM): I think Fox has a consensus for #24
Todd Andrews (6:07:16 PM): He has skills for a 2B, above avg. offensively for a 2B prospect as well as speed
Tinkers2Evers (6:07:19 PM): yea
Tinkers2Evers (6:07:22 PM): fox is fine at #24
Tim Stuart (6:07:29 PM): Foxy, baby.
Tim Stuart (6:07:38 PM): Font for 25
Todd Andrews (6:07:39 PM): I can see Fox being here (as a C*)
DeShawn Jackson (6:07:47 PM): Fontenot = Adam Kennedy, no?
DeShawn Jackson (6:08:01 PM): without the D
Tinkers2Evers (6:08:09 PM): his D has improved
Tim Stuart (6:08:11 PM): That's a big without...
Todd Andrews (6:08:13 PM): If you're #25 prospect is Kennedy, that's pretty damn good.
DeShawn Jackson (6:08:29 PM): Adam Kenney
Matt Christenson (6:08:31 PM): Fontenot, Hagerty, Greenberg, Ryu, Blasko, Ohman, Downs, Patterson...
DeShawn Jackson (6:08:32 PM): heh
Tim Stuart (6:08:49 PM): Font at 25 for me.
Todd Andrews (6:08:49 PM): Fonty at 25
Tinkers2Evers (6:08:53 PM): sure
DeShawn Jackson (6:08:55 PM): Fontenot yep
Matt Christenson (6:09:05 PM): #25 Fontenot. Next?
Tim Stuart (6:09:08 PM): I want Greenberg somewhere in the top 30
DeShawn Jackson (6:09:12 PM): I say throw Hags in there
Matt Christenson (6:09:17 PM): What about Novoa?
Tinkers2Evers (6:09:17 PM): hags at #26
Tinkers2Evers (6:09:30 PM): novoa about 28-30
Matt Christenson (6:09:32 PM): Hagerty #26 then?
Todd Andrews (6:09:35 PM): hagerty
Tim Stuart (6:09:36 PM): but I'll go with Hagerty
DeShawn Jackson (6:09:41 PM): Novoa's a solid choice
DeShawn Jackson (6:09:49 PM): looks like we all agree on Hagerty
Tinkers2Evers (6:09:53 PM): novova at 27 works for me
Todd Andrews (6:10:12 PM): novoa is a solid choice
DeShawn Jackson (6:10:19 PM): I just said that
Tim Stuart (6:10:30 PM): I like Ryu over novoa, but I'll go with the crowd
Tinkers2Evers (6:10:33 PM): novoa's a solid choice
Tinkers2Evers (6:10:41 PM): jk
Tinkers2Evers (6:10:52 PM): ryu at 28 is fine by me
Tinkers2Evers (6:10:58 PM): i think he should be on the list somewhere
Todd Andrews (6:11:01 PM): agreed w/ryu
Matt Christenson (6:11:03 PM): Novoa #27... running out of spots. Patterson, Greenberg, Ohaman, Downs, Hoffpauir, Rohlicek, Crouthers, Ryu.
Todd Andrews (6:11:10 PM): EP, next
Matt Christenson (6:11:11 PM): Ryu #28.
DeShawn Jackson (6:11:17 PM): Ryu, Patterson, then Greenberg
Tinkers2Evers (6:11:23 PM): yes
Tim Stuart (6:11:25 PM): EP, Grenberg for me.
Tinkers2Evers (6:11:26 PM): raw has it
DeShawn Jackson (6:11:26 PM): I really like Downs though
Matt Christenson (6:12:00 PM): EP #29, Greenberg #30.