the reason our cobs won't win anything

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby David » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:24 pm

CubinNY wrote:
Soul wrote:
Andy wrote:
Sammy's Boombox wrote:On MLB Network Radio this afternoon Hoyer said "That's where we want to be in a few years" when answering a question about Blackhawks/Bulls playing in the playoffs and competing for the attention of Chicago fans. The question was actually really stupid, but the way Hoyer answered it really angered me.

There's been a fair bit of that kind of garbage from them since last season ended. Theo said something about people 'not seeing the big picture' a few months ago IIRC.


Yeah, I heard that. The continual lowering of expectations from this group is old & crusty. Sick of it.

The worse part about it is that people who complain are told that they just don't get it. As if winning [expletive] baseball games is not the entire point of what they are supposed to be doing. [expletive] [expletive], I wish they would just be straight. It would be much easier to take.

Theo- When we took over the organization we looked around to see what sort of shape we were in. To our great shock, there wasn't much in the way of help in the minors and the major league team was old, bloated, and bad. We thought we could manage this and get to respectability while building the system, but the new CBA came and our plans had to change. We thought we could get new revenue streams to bolster payroll but that hasn't materialized and ownership is hamstrung by a bad business arrangement with the former owners. So, while it is difficult at the moment we feel it is our best interest to focus on building the franchise from the ground up as if it were an expansion team. To do so we have to make some sacrifices at the major league level. It's not real pretty right now, but we firmly believe we are building a winner.


Outside of outwardly talking about the loan covenant, he has pretty much said just about all of that.
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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby CubinNY » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:34 pm

David wrote:
CubinNY wrote:
Soul wrote:
Andy wrote:
Sammy's Boombox wrote:On MLB Network Radio this afternoon Hoyer said "That's where we want to be in a few years" when answering a question about Blackhawks/Bulls playing in the playoffs and competing for the attention of Chicago fans. The question was actually really stupid, but the way Hoyer answered it really angered me.

There's been a fair bit of that kind of garbage from them since last season ended. Theo said something about people 'not seeing the big picture' a few months ago IIRC.


Yeah, I heard that. The continual lowering of expectations from this group is old & crusty. Sick of it.

The worse part about it is that people who complain are told that they just don't get it. As if winning [expletive] baseball games is not the entire point of what they are supposed to be doing. [expletive] [expletive], I wish they would just be straight. It would be much easier to take.

Theo- When we took over the organization we looked around to see what sort of shape we were in. To our great shock, there wasn't much in the way of help in the minors and the major league team was old, bloated, and bad. We thought we could manage this and get to respectability while building the system, but the new CBA came and our plans had to change. We thought we could get new revenue streams to bolster payroll but that hasn't materialized and ownership is hamstrung by a bad business arrangement with the former owners. So, while it is difficult at the moment we feel it is our best interest to focus on building the franchise from the ground up as if it were an expansion team. To do so we have to make some sacrifices at the major league level. It's not real pretty right now, but we firmly believe we are building a winner.


Outside of outwardly talking about the loan covenant, he has pretty much said just about all of that.
He's talked around all that while maintaining a [expletive] riddled story about trying to compete with aphorisms like "every season is sacred". It's [expletive] and everyone knows it. Tommy Boy should come clean too. He needs to get pissed and tell the public that asshats like Tuney are killing revenue and making it hard to do business in the city. It's time for them to be as upset about this [expletive] as we all are. Instead they treat us like imbeciles.

Maybe I am an imbecile because I'm forking over premium money to go see them play the Yankees.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:36 pm

CubinNY wrote: Tommy Boy should come clean too. He needs to get pissed and tell the public that asshats like Tuney are killing revenue


Tunney isn't killing revenue. The Cubs have plenty of revenue. They have chosen to not try to compete, so that has hurt revenue, but they are not hurting for cash.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby David » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:38 pm

CubinNY wrote:
David wrote:Outside of outwardly talking about the loan covenant, he has pretty much said just about all of that.
He's talked around all that while maintaining a [expletive] riddled story about trying to compete with aphorisms like "every season is sacred". It's [expletive] and everyone knows it. Tommy Boy should come clean too. He needs to get pissed and tell the public that asshats like Tuney are killing revenue and making it hard to do business in the city. It's time for them to be as upset about this [expletive] as we all are. Instead they treat us like imbeciles.

Maybe I am an imbecile because I'm forking over premium money to go see them play the Yankees.


He said every season is sacred before the new CBA (and before the other obstacles you mentioned about the renovations). He has since said that treating every season as an opportunity to win wasn't realistic and that they did have to abandon the dual fronts idea.
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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby David » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:40 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:The Cubs have plenty of revenue. They have chosen to not try to compete, so that has hurt revenue, but they are not hurting for cash.


Still refusing to believe that the loan covenant exists?
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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:43 pm

David wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:The Cubs have plenty of revenue. They have chosen to not try to compete, so that has hurt revenue, but they are not hurting for cash.


Still refusing to believe that the loan covenant exists?


It exists but is not affecting the team the way the apologists want to believe. But that isn't the point.

That is not the reason they have spent as little as they have (they've admitted they could spend more), and it also does not mean they are hurting for cash and/or revenue (which is topic addressed here SO STAY ON TOPIC MISTER!!!!!).
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby CubinNY » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:47 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:The Cubs have plenty of revenue. They have chosen to not try to compete, so that has hurt revenue, but they are not hurting for cash.


Still refusing to believe that the loan covenant exists?


It exists but is not affecting the team the way the apologists want to believe. But that isn't the point.

That is not the reason they have spent as little as they have (they've admitted they could spend more), and it also does not mean they are hurting for cash and/or revenue (which is topic addressed here SO STAY ON TOPIC MISTER!!!!!).

Yes I agree with you. But somebody has to be the bad guy. I prefer it not to be someone associated with the Cubs. I just want to vent. I'm so sick of this [expletive]. I want them to be good.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby mul21 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:42 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:The Cubs have plenty of revenue. They have chosen to not try to compete, so that has hurt revenue, but they are not hurting for cash.


Still refusing to believe that the loan covenant exists?


It exists but is not affecting the team the way the apologists want to believe. But that isn't the point.

That is not the reason they have spent as little as they have (they've admitted they could spend more), and it also does not mean they are hurting for cash and/or revenue (which is topic addressed here SO STAY ON TOPIC MISTER!!!!!).


This is the first off season they've said they didn't spend the entire allotted budget, so I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this.
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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:44 am

mul21 wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:The Cubs have plenty of revenue. They have chosen to not try to compete, so that has hurt revenue, but they are not hurting for cash.


Still refusing to believe that the loan covenant exists?


It exists but is not affecting the team the way the apologists want to believe. But that isn't the point.

That is not the reason they have spent as little as they have (they've admitted they could spend more), and it also does not mean they are hurting for cash and/or revenue (which is topic addressed here SO STAY ON TOPIC MISTER!!!!!).


This is the first off season they've said they didn't spend the entire allotted budget, so I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this.


Do you expect them to be honest about it?

Most teams have a mandate to try and win as many games as possible at the major league level. The Cubs do not. They are operating on a single mandate, to stock the farm system. Theo is playing out his dream scenario of just stocking up on prospects without worrying about trying to contend at the major league level, and Ricketts is letting him. They feel the best way to do that is to draft as high as possible for several years, and flip whomever they can from the veteran staff. The revenue is obviously there. Tunney isn't killing revenues.

The debt covenant story (spoonfed to journalists and pseudo journalists who have no idea what it means) as well as the rooftop fight are convenient excuses to use while deflecting blame from their decision to try and climb the draft ladder. But they are the ones that made the decision not to spend, it wasn't outside forces that killed revenues.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby mul21 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:52 am

So you're right and everyone else is wrong. Got it.
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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby David » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:56 am

Brett may be a pseudo journalist but he was/is an actual lawyer (don't recall what he specialized in, though).
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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:22 am

David wrote:Brett may be a pseudo journalist but he was/is an actual lawyer (don't recall what he specialized in, though).


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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:35 am

David wrote:Brett may be a pseudo journalist but he was/is an actual lawyer (don't recall what he specialized in, though).


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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby davell » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:20 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
mul21 wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:The Cubs have plenty of revenue. They have chosen to not try to compete, so that has hurt revenue, but they are not hurting for cash.


Still refusing to believe that the loan covenant exists?


It exists but is not affecting the team the way the apologists want to believe. But that isn't the point.

That is not the reason they have spent as little as they have (they've admitted they could spend more), and it also does not mean they are hurting for cash and/or revenue (which is topic addressed here SO STAY ON TOPIC MISTER!!!!!).


This is the first off season they've said they didn't spend the entire allotted budget, so I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this.


Do you expect them to be honest about it?

Most teams have a mandate to try and win as many games as possible at the major league level. The Cubs do not. They are operating on a single mandate, to stock the farm system. Theo is playing out his dream scenario of just stocking up on prospects without worrying about trying to contend at the major league level, and Ricketts is letting him. They feel the best way to do that is to draft as high as possible for several years, and flip whomever they can from the veteran staff. The revenue is obviously there. Tunney isn't killing revenues.

The debt covenant story (spoonfed to journalists and pseudo journalists who have no idea what it means) as well as the rooftop fight are convenient excuses to use while deflecting blame from their decision to try and climb the draft ladder. But they are the ones that made the decision not to spend, it wasn't outside forces that killed revenues.


Sorry, but this is just wrong. One, nothing was spoonfed to anyone. If anything, the Cubs kept it quiet. Wittenmyer did some digging, found some things and the Cubs then came out with "Yes, there are things pertaining to the loan, but it's not a big deal"-Ricketts basic response. Which seems better than "We knew going in that this would keep us from spending for a while, especially when we still have no extra money coming in and Dad truly controls our monetary outlay."


But acting like the people that have uncovered and tried to decipher the info know nothing, just because its not what YOU want it to be is just goofy. No one is happy with it. No one wants to see 100 loss seasons.

Everything that's been done financially since Ricketts took over has shown a lack of spending ability. Everyone but you sees that evidently.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:22 pm

davell wrote:Everything that's been done financially since Ricketts took over has shown a lack of spending ability. Everyone but you sees that evidently.


Not true at all.



They want top draft picks for 3-4 years.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby CubinNY » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:32 pm

Whatever money they have they have chosen a potion of to pocket or whatever. They are choosing to tank for draft picks.

I think both of you are partially correct. They can't be the 4th mos profitable team in baseball and be so cash poor.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby davell » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:44 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:Everything that's been done financially since Ricketts took over has shown a lack of spending ability. Everyone but you sees that evidently.


Not true at all.



They want top draft picks for 3-4 years.


It's amazing how much denial you're in. Payroll has dropped every single season since they took over. Total coincidence, I guess. Even before Theo took over.

And in a situation LIKE this, where you're starting from very little, have no money to spend-Yeah, you'd take the top 5 pick over the scrappy 75 win team. Or at least I'd hope so.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby David » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:46 pm

They signed Edwin Jackson because they want to tank for draft picks...






...wait that was supposed to be sarcasm.
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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:48 pm

davell wrote:No one wants to see 100 loss seasons.


Disagree, hordes of Cubs fans are draping themselves in every loss, proud of how we're doing things right for once.
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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby davell » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:15 pm

SouthSideRyan wrote:
davell wrote:No one wants to see 100 loss seasons.


Disagree, hordes of Cubs fans are draping themselves in every loss, proud of how we're doing things right for once.


I was all for tanking a year, maybe even two. I thought it'd be enough to get the system in a position we could then trade these guys for young major leaguers.I was really off on the timetable. Not that it matters, since we have no money. Anyone still looking at this is fun though, is just warped.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby XZero77 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:42 pm

davell wrote:Anyone still looking at this is fun though, is just warped.


I'm pretty sure nobody is, because it [expletive] sucks.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:50 pm

David wrote:They signed Edwin Jackson because they want to tank for draft picks...

...wait that was supposed to be sarcasm.


They kinda flirted with dual fronts there, but they realized how badly they've failed and are retreating now to the comfortable blanket of failure and focusing on the farm system.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:39 pm

David wrote:They signed Edwin Jackson because they want to tank for draft picks...






...wait that was supposed to be sarcasm.


They had the money to spend, and they had a need for a guy who could make all the starts and eat innings. That doesn't have anything to do with trying to win.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:41 pm

davell wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:
davell wrote:No one wants to see 100 loss seasons.


Disagree, hordes of Cubs fans are draping themselves in every loss, proud of how we're doing things right for once.


I was all for tanking a year, maybe even two. I thought it'd be enough to get the system in a position we could then trade these guys for young major leaguers.I was really off on the timetable. Not that it matters, since we have no money. Anyone still looking at this is fun though, is just warped.

In for a penny in for a pound.

You can't blatantly try to take a dive, normalize constant losing in an organization and not expect it to have lasting effects.

It was a bad idea then and it remains so today.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: the reason our cobs won't win anything

Postby David » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:42 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
David wrote:They signed Edwin Jackson because they want to tank for draft picks...






...wait that was supposed to be sarcasm.


They had the money to spend, and they had a need for a guy who could make all the starts and eat innings. That doesn't have anything to do with trying to win.


If you don't care about trying to win and are actively trying to lose for draft picks it makes no sense to spend more money on a guy who will "eat innings." There is no need to eat innings if there is no need to win. Rodrigo Lopez could've done that. Plenty of fringe pitchers would do it for league minimum.
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