2015/16 offseason

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby UK » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:23 am

Damn, I wish Edwin's contract was off the books this year.

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Exile on Waveland » Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:48 am

seanimal wrote:
TMan92 wrote:Daniel Murphy or bust. The Cubs can use a good bigot.


you're kidding yourself if you don't think that they already have at least one or two in there


Yeah ... professional athletes? I'm guessing it'd be lucky if the anti-gay animus wasn't over half.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Gilby » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:50 am

Oh yeah there are bigots on the team I'm sure, but I like that our best players - Rizzo, Bryant, Arrieta, etc - don't seem to throw religion in everyone's face every chance they get. I guess Starlin does, but he does it with cool hashtags.

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby TMan92 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:57 am

I guess I should have prefaced with "blatant"

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Exile on Waveland » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:10 am

TMan92 wrote:I guess I should have prefaced with "blatant"


Yeah, honestly, I think that's the best one can hope for as a fan, at this point.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby BigSlick » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:59 pm

UK wrote:Damn, I wish Edwin's contract was off the books this year.

Christ. That really was Epstein-Hoyer's worst move to this point.

Hasn't been a crippling move, but it's still hurting the team.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby TMan92 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:47 pm

BigSlick wrote:
UK wrote:Damn, I wish Edwin's contract was off the books this year.

Christ. That really was Epstein-Hoyer's worst move to this point.

Hasn't been a crippling move, but it's still hurting the team.


I worked with a GF and now wife of one of the Nationals and nobody on their team could believe the Cubs spent that much money on him.

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:50 pm

TMan92 wrote:
BigSlick wrote:
UK wrote:Damn, I wish Edwin's contract was off the books this year.

Christ. That really was Epstein-Hoyer's worst move to this point.

Hasn't been a crippling move, but it's still hurting the team.


I worked with a GF and now wife of one of the Nationals and nobody on their team could believe the Cubs spent that much money on him.


Why?
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby XZero77 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:13 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
TMan92 wrote:
BigSlick wrote:
UK wrote:Damn, I wish Edwin's contract was off the books this year.

Christ. That really was Epstein-Hoyer's worst move to this point.

Hasn't been a crippling move, but it's still hurting the team.


I worked with a GF and now wife of one of the Nationals and nobody on their team could believe the Cubs spent that much money on him.


Why?



Yeah, given his performance in the years preceding, it was pretty fair market value, but not really over.

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Backtobanks » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:20 pm

XZero77 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
TMan92 wrote:
BigSlick wrote:
UK wrote:Damn, I wish Edwin's contract was off the books this year.

Christ. That really was Epstein-Hoyer's worst move to this point.

Hasn't been a crippling move, but it's still hurting the team.


I worked with a GF and now wife of one of the Nationals and nobody on their team could believe the Cubs spent that much money on him.


Why?



Yeah, given his performance in the years preceding, it was pretty fair market value, but not really over.


The money per year wasn't outrageous, but the number of years was. Jackson spent his whole career on 1 or 2 year contracts until he came to the Cubs.

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:35 pm

Backtobanks wrote:The money per year wasn't outrageous, but the number of years was. Jackson spent his whole career on 1 or 2 year contracts until he came to the Cubs.


So what? The lengths of his previous contracts had nothing to do with how well he did as a pitcher.

And before you jump to your usual position, no I'm not trying to defend it as somehow working out; it turned out to be a terrible signing. But at the time there was little indicate that the Cubs weren't likely to get relative value to the rather modest deal they signed him to.

And off of that, what the hell accounts for the drastic difference in his season value between Fangraphs and BR for his 2013 and 2014 seasons? Fangraphs has him at a 2.0 WAR (and 0.5 in 2014) and BR has him at -1.3 (and -2.3 the next year). FG seems WAY off here.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:56 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:The money per year wasn't outrageous, but the number of years was. Jackson spent his whole career on 1 or 2 year contracts until he came to the Cubs.


So what? The lengths of his previous contracts had nothing to do with how well he did as a pitcher.

And before you jump to your usual position, no I'm not trying to defend it as somehow working out; it turned out to be a terrible signing. But at the time there was little indicate that the Cubs weren't likely to get relative value to the rather modest deal they signed him to.

And off of that, what the hell accounts for the drastic difference in his season value between Fangraphs and BR for his 2013 and 2014 seasons? Fangraphs has him at a 2.0 WAR (and 0.5 in 2014) and BR has him at -1.3 (and -2.3 the next year). FG seems WAY off here.

I believe FG is more peripheral based whereas BR is more outcome based. EJ is just one of those guys who has always fell short of his peripherals.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Backtobanks » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:21 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:The money per year wasn't outrageous, but the number of years was. Jackson spent his whole career on 1 or 2 year contracts until he came to the Cubs.


So what? The lengths of his previous contracts had nothing to do with how well he did as a pitcher.

And before you jump to your usual position, no I'm not trying to defend it as somehow working out; it turned out to be a terrible signing. But at the time there was little indicate that the Cubs weren't likely to get relative value to the rather modest deal they signed him to.

And off of that, what the hell accounts for the drastic difference in his season value between Fangraphs and BR for his 2013 and 2014 seasons? Fangraphs has him at a 2.0 WAR (and 0.5 in 2014) and BR has him at -1.3 (and -2.3 the next year). FG seems WAY off here.


The point is that nobody was offering Jackson a contract that ran 4 years except the Cubs. We could have offered him 2 years at $13 million per year and he would have still signed with the Cubs.

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:26 pm

Backtobanks wrote:The point is that nobody was offering Jackson a contract that ran 4 years except the Cubs. We could have offered him 2 years at $13 million per year and he would have still signed with the Cubs.

I'm guessing you don't have a source for that bs.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby davell » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:31 pm

Actually, I'm almost positive the Rangers were at 4/48 on him is what's funny.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:31 pm

Tim wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:The point is that nobody was offering Jackson a contract that ran 4 years except the Cubs. We could have offered him 2 years at $13 million per year and he would have still signed with the Cubs.

I'm guessing you don't have a source for that bs.

Jim hendry is still in baseball and has plenty of sources.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:43 pm

Backtobanks wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:The money per year wasn't outrageous, but the number of years was. Jackson spent his whole career on 1 or 2 year contracts until he came to the Cubs.


So what? The lengths of his previous contracts had nothing to do with how well he did as a pitcher.

And before you jump to your usual position, no I'm not trying to defend it as somehow working out; it turned out to be a terrible signing. But at the time there was little indicate that the Cubs weren't likely to get relative value to the rather modest deal they signed him to.

And off of that, what the hell accounts for the drastic difference in his season value between Fangraphs and BR for his 2013 and 2014 seasons? Fangraphs has him at a 2.0 WAR (and 0.5 in 2014) and BR has him at -1.3 (and -2.3 the next year). FG seems WAY off here.


The point is that nobody was offering Jackson a contract that ran 4 years except the Cubs. We could have offered him 2 years at $13 million per year and he would have still signed with the Cubs.


But they wanted to lock him up for longer based on his success to that point. Again, there was little reason to assume he was just going to topple off of a cliff and never recover, so why bother with only a 1 or 2-year deal? Everything to that point pointed it to being a reasonable deal. They were trying to help stabilize the starting rotation both that season and for the long term.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby The Logan » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:01 pm

Backtobanks wrote:Jackson spent his whole career on 1 or 2 year contracts until he came to the Cubs.


He was under arbitration before the Nats, which was a one year contract. Then he signed with the Cubs.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby TMan92 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:35 pm

It was total dollars and past performance that made no sense.

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:10 am

Explain.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Backtobanks » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:32 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:The point is that nobody was offering Jackson a contract that ran 4 years except the Cubs. We could have offered him 2 years at $13 million per year and he would have still signed with the Cubs.

I'm guessing you don't have a source for that bs.

Jim hendry is still in baseball and has plenty of sources.


When you have nothing to say, you can always bring up Jim Hendry.

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Tim » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:18 am

Backtobanks wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:The point is that nobody was offering Jackson a contract that ran 4 years except the Cubs. We could have offered him 2 years at $13 million per year and he would have still signed with the Cubs.

I'm guessing you don't have a source for that bs.

Jim hendry is still in baseball and has plenty of sources.


When you have nothing to say, you can always bring up Jim Hendry.

So...source?
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby jersey cubs fan » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:23 am

Backtobanks wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:The point is that nobody was offering Jackson a contract that ran 4 years except the Cubs. We could have offered him 2 years at $13 million per year and he would have still signed with the Cubs.

I'm guessing you don't have a source for that bs.

Jim hendry is still in baseball and has plenty of sources.


When you have nothing to say, you can always bring up Jim Hendry.

Hey, you logged in.

You waited until the Cubs were playoff hopes were diminished, but you logged in.
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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby ctcf » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:39 am

davell wrote:Actually, I'm almost positive the Rangers were at 4/48 on him is what's funny.


While I can't find a year/dollar amount for the Rangers offer, they were certainly there until the end. There were, unsurprisingly, a number of teams in on him that year.

See: http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2012/12/19/ ... bs-rangers

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Re: 2015/16 offseason

Postby Backtobanks » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:43 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Tim wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:The point is that nobody was offering Jackson a contract that ran 4 years except the Cubs. We could have offered him 2 years at $13 million per year and he would have still signed with the Cubs.

I'm guessing you don't have a source for that bs.

Jim hendry is still in baseball and has plenty of sources.


When you have nothing to say, you can always bring up Jim Hendry.

Hey, you logged in.

You waited until the Cubs were playoff hopes were diminished, but you logged in.


I've been logged in and posting for weeks now. Thanks for noticing.


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