2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Discussion about other teams, non-cubs players, baseball history, sabr vs scouting, etc.
User avatar
bukie
Superstar
Posts: 16603
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 10:17 pm
Location: Midlothian, IL
Contact:

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby bukie » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:35 pm

No Dusty, hold out for the Dodgers, there's more damage to do there.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.

User avatar
David
Hall of Fame
Posts: 45384
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:33 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby David » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:50 pm

bukie wrote:No Dusty, hold out for the Dodgers, there's more damage to do there.


i don't care what the rumors were...there's no [expletive] way andrew friedman would hire him

if ownership tried to force it on him he'd probably walk
Image

User avatar
bukie
Superstar
Posts: 16603
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 10:17 pm
Location: Midlothian, IL
Contact:

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby bukie » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:13 pm

David wrote:
bukie wrote:No Dusty, hold out for the Dodgers, there's more damage to do there.


i don't care what the rumors were...there's no [expletive] way andrew friedman would hire him

if ownership tried to force it on him he'd probably walk

This is also an outcome I accept.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.

Tryptamine
All-Star
Posts: 4706
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:13 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Tryptamine » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:49 am

David wrote:
bukie wrote:No Dusty, hold out for the Dodgers, there's more damage to do there.


i don't care what the rumors were...there's no [expletive] way andrew friedman would hire him

if ownership tried to force it on him he'd probably walk


Dodgers fans already seem to want Friedman and Zaidi gone, especially when they were down 2-1 to the Mets. Apparently acquiring Wood/Latos as fill ins wasn't enough for their fans.

User avatar
CubInOK
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 5028
Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 7:08 pm
Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby CubInOK » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:01 am

Mattingly declines an extension with the Dodgers. Maybe they can get Dusty Baker now...

User avatar
Cubswin11
Superstar
Posts: 10503
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:17 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:25 am

I wonder if Martinez will be considered a candidate for the Dodger job given the past with Friedman
Screw Pitchers

davell
Superstar
Posts: 15883
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:55 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby davell » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:20 pm

Kapler seems to be the early favorite for them. From a few tweets by Dylan Hernandez, Friedman and Zaidi didn't come off well at their PC today. I know it's only been a single season, but I do wonder if Friedman is cut out for such a large payroll. I remember Beane saying one time he thought he'd be more effective with tighter purse strings and I do wonder if Friedman winds up actually proving Billy's point.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

User avatar
SouthSideRyan
is ELL
Posts: 47568
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:08 am
Location: Chicago Loop

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby SouthSideRyan » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:29 pm

I'm confused as to what you can lay at Friedman's feet for this past season. Especially with regards to large payroll.
Exile on Waveland wrote: IU smells like poop.

davell
Superstar
Posts: 15883
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:55 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby davell » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:50 pm

SouthSideRyan wrote:I'm confused as to what you can lay at Friedman's feet for this past season. Especially with regards to large payroll.


Oh, I know he's not responsible for the 300ish they've spent. But I do put blame on him for not going harder after an elite SP at the deadline, with where their teams win curve is. And considering they can blow past where their payroll is even now, I guess I lay some blame on them not getting an elite arm last offseason. To not address it at either point seems like a true mistake for sure. They definitely could have spent on the pen at either time too, but went for lesser guys, instead of the elite guys in that instance as well. I may be nitpicking him, but they've got money coming off, had the ability to do much more monetarily, and just didn't utilize the payroll advantage nearly as much as what I would have thought he would have.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

User avatar
jersey cubs fan
Hall of Fame
Posts: 49519
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:54 pm

davell wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:I'm confused as to what you can lay at Friedman's feet for this past season. Especially with regards to large payroll.


Oh, I know he's not responsible for the 300ish they've spent. But I do put blame on him for not going harder after an elite SP at the deadline, with where their teams win curve is. And considering they can blow past where their payroll is even now, I guess I lay some blame on them not getting an elite arm last offseason. To not address it at either point seems like a true mistake for sure. They definitely could have spent on the pen at either time too, but went for lesser guys, instead of the elite guys in that instance as well. I may be nitpicking him, but they've got money coming off, had the ability to do much more monetarily, and just didn't utilize the payroll advantage nearly as much as what I would have thought he would have.

They have two cy young caliber guys and a crapton of depth. And you are criticizing him for the exact opposite reason you stated in the first place.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

davell
Superstar
Posts: 15883
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:55 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby davell » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:03 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:I'm confused as to what you can lay at Friedman's feet for this past season. Especially with regards to large payroll.


Oh, I know he's not responsible for the 300ish they've spent. But I do put blame on him for not going harder after an elite SP at the deadline, with where their teams win curve is. And considering they can blow past where their payroll is even now, I guess I lay some blame on them not getting an elite arm last offseason. To not address it at either point seems like a true mistake for sure. They definitely could have spent on the pen at either time too, but went for lesser guys, instead of the elite guys in that instance as well. I may be nitpicking him, but they've got money coming off, had the ability to do much more monetarily, and just didn't utilize the payroll advantage nearly as much as what I would have thought he would have.

They have two cy young caliber guys and a crapton of depth. And you are criticizing him for the exact opposite reason you stated in the first place.


My original stance on Friedman is that I'm not convinced he'll handle having a large payroll as effectively as some others might. They certainly have depth, no question there.

It's not a matter of how much he spends, in my mind. He had the chance to add elite guys instead of depth for both starting pitching and out of the pen and did neither, in a season where they were at/near/maybe slight past their best shot at all of this.....And went safe, instead of taking a risk.

I get that playoffs are a crapshoot for the most part and that very well may weaken my stance here. But for THAT team, with THOSE resources, to not have done more over his reign than building depth, it makes me wonder how he'll handle it going forward.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

User avatar
Proven Veteran
All-Star
Posts: 1714
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:47 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Proven Veteran » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:38 pm

davell wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:I'm confused as to what you can lay at Friedman's feet for this past season. Especially with regards to large payroll.


Oh, I know he's not responsible for the 300ish they've spent. But I do put blame on him for not going harder after an elite SP at the deadline, with where their teams win curve is. And considering they can blow past where their payroll is even now, I guess I lay some blame on them not getting an elite arm last offseason. To not address it at either point seems like a true mistake for sure. They definitely could have spent on the pen at either time too, but went for lesser guys, instead of the elite guys in that instance as well. I may be nitpicking him, but they've got money coming off, had the ability to do much more monetarily, and just didn't utilize the payroll advantage nearly as much as what I would have thought he would have.

They have two cy young caliber guys and a crapton of depth. And you are criticizing him for the exact opposite reason you stated in the first place.


My original stance on Friedman is that I'm not convinced he'll handle having a large payroll as effectively as some others might. They certainly have depth, no question there.

It's not a matter of how much he spends, in my mind. He had the chance to add elite guys instead of depth for both starting pitching and out of the pen and did neither, in a season where they were at/near/maybe slight past their best shot at all of this.....And went safe, instead of taking a risk.

I get that playoffs are a crapshoot for the most part and that very well may weaken my stance here. But for THAT team, with THOSE resources, to not have done more over his reign than building depth, it makes me wonder how he'll handle it going forward.


They have just as much of a window as the Cubs. They have tons of young players, an excellent system, and tons of money. If everyone should be happy with the Cubs season, why doesn't the same apply to them?

davell
Superstar
Posts: 15883
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:55 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby davell » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:20 pm

Proven Veteran wrote:
davell wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:I'm confused as to what you can lay at Friedman's feet for this past season. Especially with regards to large payroll.


Oh, I know he's not responsible for the 300ish they've spent. But I do put blame on him for not going harder after an elite SP at the deadline, with where their teams win curve is. And considering they can blow past where their payroll is even now, I guess I lay some blame on them not getting an elite arm last offseason. To not address it at either point seems like a true mistake for sure. They definitely could have spent on the pen at either time too, but went for lesser guys, instead of the elite guys in that instance as well. I may be nitpicking him, but they've got money coming off, had the ability to do much more monetarily, and just didn't utilize the payroll advantage nearly as much as what I would have thought he would have.

They have two cy young caliber guys and a crapton of depth. And you are criticizing him for the exact opposite reason you stated in the first place.


My original stance on Friedman is that I'm not convinced he'll handle having a large payroll as effectively as some others might. They certainly have depth, no question there.

It's not a matter of how much he spends, in my mind. He had the chance to add elite guys instead of depth for both starting pitching and out of the pen and did neither, in a season where they were at/near/maybe slight past their best shot at all of this.....And went safe, instead of taking a risk.

I get that playoffs are a crapshoot for the most part and that very well may weaken my stance here. But for THAT team, with THOSE resources, to not have done more over his reign than building depth, it makes me wonder how he'll handle it going forward.


They have just as much of a window as the Cubs. They have tons of young players, an excellent system, and tons of money. If everyone should be happy with the Cubs season, why doesn't the same apply to them?


One, the Cubs have far from unlimited funds. Two, the Dodgers aren't nearly as young or have nearly as good of a true long term foundation as the Cubs. They've got Kershaw and nothing else good in their rotation now that Greinke is a FA. They've got Seager and Puig offensively, with Pederson as a possibility that certainly has concerns now. The fact they've got a good system AND unlimited money just tells me they needed to trade from it even more.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

User avatar
Tim
Hall of Fame
Posts: 39913
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am
Location: Naperville, IL
Contact:

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:03 am

I actually loved the Dodgers moves to get Wood & Latos at the deadline. I think there's a bit of the benefit of hindsight to criticize those moves now. I'm not sure why their strikeout rates tanked after going to LA.
Spoiler: show

Image

User avatar
Tim
Hall of Fame
Posts: 39913
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am
Location: Naperville, IL
Contact:

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:13 am

davell wrote:One, the Cubs have far from unlimited funds. Two, the Dodgers aren't nearly as young or have nearly as good of a true long term foundation as the Cubs. They've got Kershaw and nothing else good in their rotation now that Greinke is a FA. They've got Seager and Puig offensively, with Pederson as a possibility that certainly has concerns now. The fact they've got a good system AND unlimited money just tells me they needed to trade from it even more.

What was Ryu's injury? Shouldn't he be back? Wood was rough with the Dodgers in the second half, but he's still a quality arm. There's still about a 90+% chance they re-sign Greinke. They have De Leon ready in the minors. McCarthy will be back at some point.

Kershaw
Greinke
Ryu
Wood
McCarthy
Beachy
De Leon
Cotton



I'd love to have that heading into 2016.
Spoiler: show

Image

User avatar
TomtheBombadil
Starter
Posts: 933
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:35 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:41 am

Brewers stealing Derek Johnson and making him their pitching coach. He's the guy from Vandy that established their best-in-the-nation pitching program.

cl smooth
Starter
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 9:59 am
Location: carroll gardens (via illinois)

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby cl smooth » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:09 pm

scott servais hired as the next manager of the mariners:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13952 ... rs-manager

two lasting impressions of scott servais growing up:

1. getting hit in the junk multiple times while catching
2. one of the slowest runners i've ever seen

User avatar
Sammy's Boombox
Formerly eb14play2
Posts: 4660
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:52 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Sammy's Boombox » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:36 pm

I was at this game. One of my first vivid memories of MLB.

Cubs won 1-0 on a Scott Servais HR into the LF bullpen just to my right.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN199508050.shtml
CUBS PACKERS MIZZOU

User avatar
ConstableRabbit
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 7142
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:17 pm
Location: Heavenston

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby ConstableRabbit » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:19 pm

cl smooth wrote:scott servais hired as the next manager of the mariners:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13952 ... rs-manager

two lasting impressions of scott servais growing up:

1. getting hit in the junk multiple times while catching
2. one of the slowest runners i've ever seen

3. dat chin
During a "Not For Women Only" panel discussion, former Cubs pitcher Mike Bielecki asked several players to invent a baseball catch phrase for Viagra. Theriot's ad campaign: "Viagra -- I always play hard."

User avatar
Proven Veteran
All-Star
Posts: 1714
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:47 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Proven Veteran » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:25 pm

Tim wrote:
davell wrote:One, the Cubs have far from unlimited funds. Two, the Dodgers aren't nearly as young or have nearly as good of a true long term foundation as the Cubs. They've got Kershaw and nothing else good in their rotation now that Greinke is a FA. They've got Seager and Puig offensively, with Pederson as a possibility that certainly has concerns now. The fact they've got a good system AND unlimited money just tells me they needed to trade from it even more.

What was Ryu's injury? Shouldn't he be back? Wood was rough with the Dodgers in the second half, but he's still a quality arm. There's still about a 90+% chance they re-sign Greinke. They have De Leon ready in the minors. McCarthy will be back at some point.

Kershaw
Greinke
Ryu
Wood
McCarthy
Beachy
De Leon
Cotton



I'd love to have that heading into 2016.


Urias might be ready at some point in 2016. Also, Pederson has questions similar to all of the Cubs prospects other than Bryant. Hernandez is a good player as well.

User avatar
mul21
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 7135
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:53 am
Location: Hell (a.k.a. St. Louis)
Contact:

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby mul21 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:08 pm

I like beer.

User avatar
NonProfitCow
All-Star
Posts: 3763
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:15 am

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby NonProfitCow » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:14 pm

Proven Veteran wrote:Urias might be ready at some point in 2016. Also, Pederson has questions similar to all of the Cubs prospects other than Bryant. Hernandez is a good player as well.

The only difference between question mark Pederson and sure thing Bryant is 112 points of BABIP. They K at the same rate and Pederson walks a decent clip more.

User avatar
Proven Veteran
All-Star
Posts: 1714
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:47 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Proven Veteran » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:17 pm

NonProfitCow wrote:
Proven Veteran wrote:Urias might be ready at some point in 2016. Also, Pederson has questions similar to all of the Cubs prospects other than Bryant. Hernandez is a good player as well.

The only difference between question mark Pederson and sure thing Bryant is 112 points of BABIP. They K at the same rate and Pederson walks a decent clip more.



Sure, I just didn't want to get into that part of the debate. The Dodgers are definitely in a good position.

User avatar
Transmogrified Tiger
Hall of Fame
Posts: 49202
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:23 am
Location: Puget Sound

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:18 pm

NonProfitCow wrote:
Proven Veteran wrote:Urias might be ready at some point in 2016. Also, Pederson has questions similar to all of the Cubs prospects other than Bryant. Hernandez is a good player as well.

The only difference between question mark Pederson and sure thing Bryant is 112 points of BABIP. They K at the same rate and Pederson walks a decent clip more.


Yes, Bryant is a lot better at hitting than Pederson. That is not a point in Joc's favor.

davell
Superstar
Posts: 15883
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:55 pm

Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby davell » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:02 pm

Tim wrote:
davell wrote:One, the Cubs have far from unlimited funds. Two, the Dodgers aren't nearly as young or have nearly as good of a true long term foundation as the Cubs. They've got Kershaw and nothing else good in their rotation now that Greinke is a FA. They've got Seager and Puig offensively, with Pederson as a possibility that certainly has concerns now. The fact they've got a good system AND unlimited money just tells me they needed to trade from it even more.

What was Ryu's injury? Shouldn't he be back? Wood was rough with the Dodgers in the second half, but he's still a quality arm. There's still about a 90+% chance they re-sign Greinke. They have De Leon ready in the minors. McCarthy will be back at some point.

Kershaw
Greinke
Ryu
Wood
McCarthy
Beachy
De Leon
Cotton



I'd love to have that heading into 2016.


1) Greinke isn't theirs currently, all the more reason to capitalize last year.

2) Ryu had major shoulder surgery. I'm sure he'll be back, but are you just going to assume he'll be as good?

3) McCarthy will be back in the middle of the year. He's nothing special either way.

4) Pretty sure Beachy is a FA.

5) DeLeon and Cotton aren't what I'm talking about, they weren't figuring into 2015.

I'm not saying the Dodgers are all of a sudden going to suck. They're not. No, their group of 25 and unders aren't equal to ours. But that's not the point either. They could catch up there conceivably by throwing absurd amounts of money at guys in IFA or buying prospects in trades.

Their curve is different than ours because their roster is older. Hell, if Kershaw were a Cub, we'd be worried as [expletive] he'll break. But Adrian is old, so is Turner, Ethier, Kendrick was on the last year of his deal.

They have no reason to take a cautious approach. They did and if I liked them, I'd have been pissed, just as most of the fans I know actually were.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.


Return to “General Baseball Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest