2015 offseason hirings and firings*

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:07 pm

Trading for Wood + Latos was the cautious approach? I'd hate to hear what you call our deadline.

Those guys didn't work out as the Dodgers wanted them to, but who was moved that was better? Cueto & Hamels? Anyone else?

Or are you talking pre-season?
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby davell » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:29 pm

Tim wrote:Trading for Wood + Latos was the cautious approach? I'd hate to hear what you call our deadline.

Those guys didn't work out as the Dodgers wanted them to, but who was moved that was better? Cueto & Hamels? Anyone else?

Or are you talking pre-season?


Nah, I'd have been thrilled with Latos/Wood. It's money based and where their teams age is, as to why I'm down on what Friedman has done so far. I can give him a pass based on just taking over.....I guess. I did with Theo. But Theo tore down and didnt waste time on deciding what direction he was taking. Nor did he have anything close to the monetary ability that Friedman has now.

Friedman filled with depth in the offseason, instead of getting elite guys. I'm more OK with Theo taking that approach, because a mistake will hurt much more than it would hurt them. I'd say the same for the deadline. Risks are necessary at times, in their case, I'd say more than most others. Because they can continually buy right over top of them.

That said, I'm arguing by myself against a group of guys I know "know their [expletive]", so I'll drop off not having my mind changed, but admitting you guys may be on the right side of this thing.
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Derwood » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:43 pm

davell wrote:Kapler seems to be the early favorite for them. From a few tweets by Dylan Hernandez, Friedman and Zaidi didn't come off well at their PC today. I know it's only been a single season, but I do wonder if Friedman is cut out for such a large payroll. I remember Beane saying one time he thought he'd be more effective with tighter purse strings and I do wonder if Friedman winds up actually proving Billy's point.


Am I misremembering, or was Kapler a giant douche bag while he was a player?

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:44 pm

davell wrote:
Tim wrote:Trading for Wood + Latos was the cautious approach? I'd hate to hear what you call our deadline.

Those guys didn't work out as the Dodgers wanted them to, but who was moved that was better? Cueto & Hamels? Anyone else?

Or are you talking pre-season?


Nah, I'd have been thrilled with Latos/Wood. It's money based and where their teams age is, as to why I'm down on what Friedman has done so far. I can give him a pass based on just taking over.....I guess. I did with Theo. But Theo tore down and didnt waste time on deciding what direction he was taking. Nor did he have anything close to the monetary ability that Friedman has now.

Friedman filled with depth in the offseason, instead of getting elite guys. I'm more OK with Theo taking that approach, because a mistake will hurt much more than it would hurt them. I'd say the same for the deadline. Risks are necessary at times, in their case, I'd say more than most others. Because they can continually buy right over top of them.

That said, I'm arguing by myself against a group of guys I know "know their [expletive]", so I'll drop off not having my mind changed, but admitting you guys may be on the right side of this thing.

I liked their moves pre-season (McCarthy + Anderson), but I thought they'd go after more sure-thing, high-dollar guys.

I really liked what they did at the deadline for a team with any budget. It just didn't work out as planned.
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Lenny » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:38 pm

Tim wrote:Trading for Wood + Latos was the cautious approach? I'd hate to hear what you call our deadline.

Those guys didn't work out as the Dodgers wanted them to, but who was moved that was better? Cueto & Hamels? Anyone else?

Or are you talking pre-season?


Why include Latos? Understand he had great results against us with CIN years ago, but considering the current pitching environment he's a 4 or 5 at best.

If Jed decides to sign him for more than 1 year or more than about $7M guaranteed, we'll call it a [expletive] contract, and rightfully so.

Dave's right, it was a buy-low, cheapskate move.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:53 pm

Lenny wrote:
Tim wrote:Trading for Wood + Latos was the cautious approach? I'd hate to hear what you call our deadline.

Those guys didn't work out as the Dodgers wanted them to, but who was moved that was better? Cueto & Hamels? Anyone else?

Or are you talking pre-season?


Why include Latos? Understand he had great results against us with CIN years ago, but considering the current pitching environment he's a 4 or 5 at best.

If Jed decides to sign him for more than 1 year or more than about $7M guaranteed, we'll call it a [expletive] contract, and rightfully so.

Dave's right, it was a buy-low, cheapskate move.

I'm confused at what you think is a 4-5 at best.
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:11 pm

Derwood wrote:
davell wrote:Kapler seems to be the early favorite for them. From a few tweets by Dylan Hernandez, Friedman and Zaidi didn't come off well at their PC today. I know it's only been a single season, but I do wonder if Friedman is cut out for such a large payroll. I remember Beane saying one time he thought he'd be more effective with tighter purse strings and I do wonder if Friedman winds up actually proving Billy's point.


Am I misremembering, or was Kapler a giant douche bag while he was a player?


I remember him as a fitness freak and remember hearing he was a bright guy.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Lenny » Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:42 pm

Tim wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Tim wrote:Trading for Wood + Latos was the cautious approach? I'd hate to hear what you call our deadline.

Those guys didn't work out as the Dodgers wanted them to, but who was moved that was better? Cueto & Hamels? Anyone else?

Or are you talking pre-season?


Why include Latos? Understand he had great results against us with CIN years ago, but considering the current pitching environment he's a 4 or 5 at best.

If Jed decides to sign him for more than 1 year or more than about $7M guaranteed, we'll call it a [expletive] contract, and rightfully so.

Dave's right, it was a buy-low, cheapskate move.

I'm confused at what you think is a 4-5 at best.


http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3815&position=P

Jason Hammel had more productive seasons the past two years.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3815&position=P

He just ain't the same guy he was before/during 2013. It was a cheapskate trade.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:31 pm

Lenny wrote:
Tim wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Tim wrote:Trading for Wood + Latos was the cautious approach? I'd hate to hear what you call our deadline.

Those guys didn't work out as the Dodgers wanted them to, but who was moved that was better? Cueto & Hamels? Anyone else?

Or are you talking pre-season?


Why include Latos? Understand he had great results against us with CIN years ago, but considering the current pitching environment he's a 4 or 5 at best.

If Jed decides to sign him for more than 1 year or more than about $7M guaranteed, we'll call it a [expletive] contract, and rightfully so.

Dave's right, it was a buy-low, cheapskate move.

I'm confused at what you think is a 4-5 at best.


http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3815&position=P

Jason Hammel had more productive seasons the past two years.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3815&position=P

He just ain't the same guy he was before/during 2013. It was a cheapskate trade.

You understand his role, right? They weren't looking for a #1 or a #2. Those were Kershaw and Greinke. They got Wood to be the #3. They had Anderson as #4. They were looking for a #5 starter at that point. Latos was a really good bet as a guy who had a 3.45 FIP for the team he was on before the break. He had a 8.05/2.55 K/BB ratio. He was average or better at preventing HR. He was a really good bet to be above average with proven upside, let alone a serviceable #5.

You're being pretty ridiculous here.
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby jersey cubs fan » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:41 am



Ken rosenthal is troubled by the lack of intellectual diversity in mlb hiring. He thinks it is unfair that teams only hire smart guys.
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby David » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:13 am

So did you guys see that Ruben Amaro is going to be the Red Sox 1B coach?
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Lenny » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:26 am

Tim wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Tim wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Tim wrote:Trading for Wood + Latos was the cautious approach? I'd hate to hear what you call our deadline.

Those guys didn't work out as the Dodgers wanted them to, but who was moved that was better? Cueto & Hamels? Anyone else?

Or are you talking pre-season?


Why include Latos? Understand he had great results against us with CIN years ago, but considering the current pitching environment he's a 4 or 5 at best.

If Jed decides to sign him for more than 1 year or more than about $7M guaranteed, we'll call it a [expletive] contract, and rightfully so.

Dave's right, it was a buy-low, cheapskate move.

I'm confused at what you think is a 4-5 at best.


http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3815&position=P

Jason Hammel had more productive seasons the past two years.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3815&position=P

He just ain't the same guy he was before/during 2013. It was a cheapskate trade.

You understand his role, right? They weren't looking for a #1 or a #2. Those were Kershaw and Greinke. They got Wood to be the #3. They had Anderson as #4. They were looking for a #5 starter at that point. Latos was a really good bet as a guy who had a 3.45 FIP for the team he was on before the break. He had a 8.05/2.55 K/BB ratio. He was average or better at preventing HR. He was a really good bet to be above average with proven upside, let alone a serviceable #5.

You're being pretty ridiculous here.


How is it ridiculous? This was a team that stated they had no payroll restrictions, farm depth, and a glaring need for stability at the back of their rotation.

I don't blame their fans being disappointed that Latos was their second biggest acquisition.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby David » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:44 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:

Ken rosenthal is troubled by the lack of intellectual diversity in mlb hiring. He thinks it is unfair that teams only hire smart guys.


i love how he cites the ventura and matheny hirings as though those were analytics guys or something
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:23 am

David wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:

Ken rosenthal is troubled by the lack of intellectual diversity in mlb hiring. He thinks it is unfair that teams only hire smart guys.


i love how he cites the ventura and matheny hirings as though those were analytics guys or something


FJM should come back just for this alone.
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby SouthSideRyan » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:37 am

David wrote:So did you guys see that Ruben Amaro is going to be the Red Sox 1B coach?


Sounds troubling
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby mul21 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:01 pm

I'm now 100% sure I could do a better job than Rizzo.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby David » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:20 pm

Bud Black seems like a decent hire. Dusty atrocious. What a weird couple of final candidates.

Also so weird for them to consider another idiot after Williams
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby mul21 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:42 pm

David wrote:Bud Black seems like a decent hire. Dusty atrocious. What a weird couple of final candidates.

Also so weird for them to consider another idiot after Williams


I agree, Black would be fine. But to even consider Dusty after what he just went through with Williams? I just have no idea how that's even a thought you can have, especially with the long track record of pitcher destruction and a guy like Strasburg on the staff.
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Gilby » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:51 pm

Rizzo always showed a lot of public support for Williams. Maybe he only fired him because of outside pressure and doesn't see anything wrong with hiring someone similar to him. I didn't follow their situation too closely, bit it did kind of seem like everyone BUT Rizzo wanted Williams gone.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Lenny » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:55 pm

David wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:

Ken rosenthal is troubled by the lack of intellectual diversity in mlb hiring. He thinks it is unfair that teams only hire smart guys.


i love how he cites the ventura and matheny hirings as though those were analytics guys or something


That he included those two goofs invalidates his whole argument. Why wouldn't he use Scioscia as an example? He's as big an "old school" moron as the aforementioned, but he's at least shown some ability to recognize coaching talent, handles his pitching staff responsibly, and has a ring.

Matheny and Ventura are just (much) less charismatic Dusty Bakers. I don't follow the Sox, but why the self-anointed Best Fans in Baseball are so content with Matheny after watching LaRussa, Torre, and Herzog is beyond me.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby mul21 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:06 pm

Lenny wrote:
Matheny and Ventura are just (much) less charismatic Dusty Bakers. I don't follow the Sox, but why the self-anointed Best Fans in Baseball are so content with Matheny after watching LaRussa, Torre, and Herzog is beyond me.


Well, they're not. There's so much hand wringing and pissing and moaning about him that I'm pretty sure more of them than not would be happy if they got rid of him.
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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Lenny » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:05 pm

mul21 wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Matheny and Ventura are just (much) less charismatic Dusty Bakers. I don't follow the Sox, but why the self-anointed Best Fans in Baseball are so content with Matheny after watching LaRussa, Torre, and Herzog is beyond me.


Well, they're not. There's so much hand wringing and pissing and moaning about him that I'm pretty sure more of them than not would be happy if they got rid of him.


What idiot runs a promising young arm like Macha into the ground, then recalls Marco Gonzales from Memphis before he's rehabbed his shoulder?

Mozeliak better realize. And if not him, Bill DeWitt.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Banedon » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:28 am

Lenny wrote:
mul21 wrote:
Lenny wrote:
Matheny and Ventura are just (much) less charismatic Dusty Bakers. I don't follow the Sox, but why the self-anointed Best Fans in Baseball are so content with Matheny after watching LaRussa, Torre, and Herzog is beyond me.


Well, they're not. There's so much hand wringing and pissing and moaning about him that I'm pretty sure more of them than not would be happy if they got rid of him.


What idiot runs a promising young arm like Macha into the ground, then recalls Marco Gonzales from Memphis before he's rehabbed his shoulder?

Mozeliak better realize. And if not him, Bill DeWitt.


I'm not gonna argue that Matheny isn't an idiot, but I don't think I'm gonna put the blame on him for callups.

Funny that Ryne Sandberg working his way up through the system and failing spectacularly wasn't mentioned in the article.

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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby Banedon » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:28 am

That's so Heyman....


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Re: 2015 offseason hirings and firings*

Postby CubinNY » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:22 am

Banedon wrote:That's so Heyman....


How can someone who pays attention to baseball for a living write that?


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