The General TV Thread

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby woodchip2153 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:39 pm

An interesting read from the woman whom Avery was wrongfully convicted of raping in 1985.

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby RammyFanny » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:43 pm

FWIW, if he did it, I don't think it had to be some highly premeditated thing where he was planning to kill her for days/weeks. If some of those things were true, he clearly gets off on sexual thrills. He might have just been looking for another little thrill, she angers/insults him when she sees him, he takes things way too far in a fit of sexual frustration, and then he completely panics and figures if he lets her go he's clearly getting put away with rape. And based of his wife's alcohol problem they alluded to towards the end, it wouldn't surprise me if Steven isn't of a sober mind during some of this.

COMPLETE speculation, but I don't think it absolutely had to be premeditated.

You're probably right on the DNA part, I haven't double checked. You're right on the "restraints" too. I had read "leg irons" and imagined they were something way more complex than what they actually are (ankle handcuffs).
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:39 pm

RammyFanny wrote:FWIW, if he did it, I don't think it had to be some highly premeditated thing where he was planning to kill her for days/weeks. If some of those things were true, he clearly gets off on sexual thrills. He might have just been looking for another little thrill, she angers/insults him when she sees him, he takes things way too far in a fit of sexual frustration, and then he completely panics and figures if he lets her go he's clearly getting put away with rape. And based of his wife's alcohol problem they alluded to towards the end, it wouldn't surprise me if Steven isn't of a sober mind during some of this.

COMPLETE speculation, but I don't think it absolutely had to be premeditated.

You're probably right on the DNA part, I haven't double checked. You're right on the "restraints" too. I had read "leg irons" and imagined they were something way more complex than what they actually are (ankle handcuffs).


All makes sense. As I said before, like Adnan, the guy makes a ton of sense as the main suspect. It's just hugely problematic that what looks like police/prosecution tampering throws everything in to doubt.

To me the thing that makes the most sense is that Avery did it, or at least was involved, and they couldn't prove it so they rigged the case against him. That said, I just still have trouble wrapping my head around the logistics of the crime scene; these guys WANTED to bust him so badly, and they scoured his property and the car for incriminating evidence and really couldn't find anything until, coincidentally, Brendan "confesses." If Avery disposed of the body there, it seems to make the most sense that the crime happened there, but they can't find anything out of what should have been a very messy crime scene. This would mean that the murder happening elsewhere would make the most sense, but her car being on Avery's property doesn't work for me. Did he bring it back? Why? Why bring the body back? Why would she come back there if she was so freaked out about him?

I'm not throwing this stuff at you; just mulling on it out loud because it's downright maddening. Same with the Serial case; trying to explain the innocence OR guilt of the main and most likely suspects just frustratingly falls apart.

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby RammyFanny » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:50 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:To me the thing that makes the most sense is that Avery did it, or at least was involved, and they couldn't prove it so they rigged the case against him.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm leaning.



If Avery disposed of the body there, it seems to make the most sense that the crime happened there, but they can't find anything out of what should have been a very messy crime scene. This would mean that the murder happening elsewhere would make the most sense, but her car being on Avery's property doesn't work for me. Did he bring it back? Why? Why bring the body back? Why would she come back there if she was so freaked out about him?


I forgot, is all we are basing the messy stabbing stuff from from Brendan's confession or do we know that happened? It could have been less messier if there was no stabbing (or if it was exaggerated). Although that would probably require the bullet to the head to have been done outside the garage which wouldn't explain why the bullet was found in there.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:56 pm

And I get that Avery was dumber than a bag of hammers, but why would he not crush the car instead of bringing it back and parking it so damn close to the car crusher? It was a GD salvage yard; even he should have enough sense to get rid of that big ass piece of evidence. He also should have known God was going to send that one lady right to it.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:08 pm

RammyFanny wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:To me the thing that makes the most sense is that Avery did it, or at least was involved, and they couldn't prove it so they rigged the case against him.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm leaning.



If Avery disposed of the body there, it seems to make the most sense that the crime happened there, but they can't find anything out of what should have been a very messy crime scene. This would mean that the murder happening elsewhere would make the most sense, but her car being on Avery's property doesn't work for me. Did he bring it back? Why? Why bring the body back? Why would she come back there if she was so freaked out about him?


I forgot, is all we are basing the messy stabbing stuff from from Brendan's confession or do we know that happened? It could have been less messier if there was no stabbing (or if it was exaggerated). Although that would probably require the bullet to the head to have been done outside the garage which wouldn't explain why the bullet was found in there.


Exactly; every scenario just loops around until I want to go lay down. Nothing makes sense.

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby David » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:01 pm

Yesterday I went through such a rollercoaster of emotions from being disgusted at the trial to being disgusted at myself for possibly feeling so much sympathy for a possible monster, to being convinced he really is a monster and being even more disgusted to then considering that he might be innocent of that murder again but not really
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:24 pm

RammyFanny wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:To me the thing that makes the most sense is that Avery did it, or at least was involved, and they couldn't prove it so they rigged the case against him.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm leaning.



If Avery disposed of the body there, it seems to make the most sense that the crime happened there, but they can't find anything out of what should have been a very messy crime scene. This would mean that the murder happening elsewhere would make the most sense, but her car being on Avery's property doesn't work for me. Did he bring it back? Why? Why bring the body back? Why would she come back there if she was so freaked out about him?


I forgot, is all we are basing the messy stabbing stuff from from Brendan's confession or do we know that happened? It could have been less messier if there was no stabbing (or if it was exaggerated). Although that would probably require the bullet to the head to have been done outside the garage which wouldn't explain why the bullet was found in there.


Yeah, the biggest problem I have is that so much of the state's "case" is based on Dassey's obviously [expletive] coerced confession. "oh uhh he raped her? and uh shot her 11 times. and tied her up?"
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:29 pm

Bunts Lick Butts wrote:
RammyFanny wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:To me the thing that makes the most sense is that Avery did it, or at least was involved, and they couldn't prove it so they rigged the case against him.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm leaning.



If Avery disposed of the body there, it seems to make the most sense that the crime happened there, but they can't find anything out of what should have been a very messy crime scene. This would mean that the murder happening elsewhere would make the most sense, but her car being on Avery's property doesn't work for me. Did he bring it back? Why? Why bring the body back? Why would she come back there if she was so freaked out about him?


I forgot, is all we are basing the messy stabbing stuff from from Brendan's confession or do we know that happened? It could have been less messier if there was no stabbing (or if it was exaggerated). Although that would probably require the bullet to the head to have been done outside the garage which wouldn't explain why the bullet was found in there.


Yeah, the biggest problem I have is that so much of the state's "case" is based on Dassey's obviously [expletive] coerced confession. "oh uhh he raped her? and uh shot her 11 times. and tied her up?"


Yup. Combine that with how it looks like they likely tampered with/planted evidence and it gets to the point that even if Avery was arrested wearing a shirt that said "I DID IT" they just don't have enough to convict hm.

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Re: The General TV Thread

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:02 pm

Probably my moment of biggest revulsion in the entire series was when that dumb DA went on the news and laid out all the gory details, mere hours after Jesse Misskelley 2.0's confession. There was absolutely no need to do that. You just have to say "we've received a confession and we are very certain that we have the guys who did this, the facts will come out during trial." That was some horrible, horrible, and unjust grandstanding done by that idiot.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:06 pm

RammyFanny wrote:It could have been less messier if there was no stabbing (or if it was exaggerated). Although that would probably require the bullet to the head to have been done outside the garage which wouldn't explain why the bullet was found in there.


If she was indeed killed by a .22, and wasn't stabbed or whatever, then there is a good chance that it wouldn't have been all that messy.

Given the alleged grisly details of her murder that was put out there by the prosecution, the lack of her blood ANYWHERE on the property (aside from on thebullet fragment), gives me the most pause about his guilt.

Also, if he was as meticulous about cleaning up the crime scene (removing the blood) as he would need to be for there to be a complete lack of her blood, why would he be so careless when it came to disposing of her car and her body when he had a freaking SMELTER and a car demolisher there on the premises?
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Gilby » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:03 pm

OleMissCub wrote:Given the alleged grisly details of her murder that was put out there by the prosecution, the lack of her blood ANYWHERE on the property (aside from on thebullet fragment), gives me the most pause about his guilt.

Also, if he was as meticulous about cleaning up the crime scene (removing the blood) as he would need to be for there to be a complete lack of her blood, why would he be so careless when it came to disposing of her car and her body when he had a freaking SMELTER and a car demolisher there on the premises?


Yep, those two things trump everything I've heard that says he maybe did do it. He's worried enough about the car being there to cover it with sticks/branches, but he doesn't just crush it when he has the necessary equipment? Get the [expletive] out of here with that. Steven is just such an easy target to pin this on. My best guess is as to who did it was Brendan's step father, with help from Brendan's brother. The kid's comment about verifying the time he was there weirded me out, they would've seen Teresa there, and they knew who automatically would've been blamed.

The stuff Rammy posted is very interesting and makes me feel slightly...better? that maybe he is a [expletive] person who deserves to be in prison, even if he didn't commit this murder.

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby David » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:35 pm

Gilby wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:Given the alleged grisly details of her murder that was put out there by the prosecution, the lack of her blood ANYWHERE on the property (aside from on thebullet fragment), gives me the most pause about his guilt.

Also, if he was as meticulous about cleaning up the crime scene (removing the blood) as he would need to be for there to be a complete lack of her blood, why would he be so careless when it came to disposing of her car and her body when he had a freaking SMELTER and a car demolisher there on the premises?


Yep, those two things trump everything I've heard that says he maybe did do it. He's worried enough about the car being there to cover it with sticks/branches, but he doesn't just crush it when he has the necessary equipment? Get the [expletive] out of here with that. Steven is just such an easy target to pin this on. My best guess is as to who did it was Brendan's step father, with help from Brendan's brother. The kid's comment about verifying the time he was there weirded me out, they would've seen Teresa there, and they knew who automatically would've been blamed.

The stuff Rammy posted is very interesting and makes me feel slightly...better? that maybe he is a [expletive] person who deserves to be in prison, even if he didn't commit this murder.


before i read that he was calling her all the time, i was starting to suspect that the ex boyfriend (ex hillegas) who kept calling her and annoying her and that maybe he had something to do with it. when they were asking him about how he got into her cell records he just seemed so antsy and stuff too.

but you're right, it would make a lot more sense for it to be another member of that family.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:44 pm

Brendan's stepfather's constant statements that Steven was a piece of garbage who got what was coming to him and his insistence that his stepson plead guilty to a crime he didn't commit were quite odd and stuck out to me. I've also seen it posted somewhere that the stepfather was trying to sell a .22 shortly after Teresa's death.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Gilby » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:57 pm

OleMissCub wrote:Brendan's stepfather's constant statements that Steven was a piece of garbage who got what was coming to him and his insistence that his stepson plead guilty to a crime he didn't commit were quite odd and stuck out to me. I've also seen it posted somewhere that the stepfather was trying to sell a .22 shortly after Teresa's death.


I actually didn't watch the last two episodes because 1)the Brendan stuff is just too upsetting to watch and 2) from an entertainment standpoint, nothing was going to beat Steven's trial, so I just stopped after the episode with that verdict. So I didn't even know he tried to get Brendan to plead guilty. That is very interesting. However, I did see that he was really happy when Steven was found guilty, and it's like, dude, if he would've been found not guilty, that would've helped your stepson by contradicting his forced confession even more.

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that dude is the culprit.

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:18 pm

Scott Tadych = Terry Hobbs
Brendan Dassey = Jesse Miskelley
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby RammyFanny » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:11 pm

Yeah, Bobby and his stepdad are the ones who I thought seemed to have way too convenient and accurate timelines. Stepdad had a violent past and Bobby had scratch marks on him he claimed were from a dog. Plus they knew the property well.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:13 pm

Reading up more on the "shackles" being discussed and apparently Halbach's DNA wasn't found on them at all. The entire prosecution/police scenario is hinged on the testimony that this attack and assault and murder took place in very close quarters and somehow no traces of it could be found after multiple searches until the manipulated confession. It's terrifying. The guy somehow leaves no trace of this murder, yet inexplicably keeps the key in plain site and doesn't do anything with the car.

There's basically zero hope of ever knowing what really happened because of how badly this was manipulated. Avery could very well be the murderer, but there's no way to know. The actually murderer could be out there and there's almost no way to know. What a cluster [expletive].

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:00 am

OleMissCub wrote:Scott Tadych = Terry Hobbs
Brendan Dassey = Jesse Miskelley


ive been telling everyone who is into this to watch paradise lost, too
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Brian707 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:03 am

Just watched the first two episodes last night. Why did I wait so long to watch this? It has been out for 3 weeks now.

And yes, Paradise Lost was also fantastic.

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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:02 pm

This isn't news, but I think many good citizens would be stunned at the amount of legitimately crooked cops out there. When I was a prosecutor there were some Sheriff's deputies with whom I didn't believe a single word that came out of their mouth. They would tell me some facts that were obviously [expletive] and tell it to me with a smile. One deputy would constantly arrest this one dude in town, always on a completely fabricated charge and knowing that the guy didn't have the money to bond out, just so he could go try and mack on his girl.

While I was prosecuting in that county, we had a new Sheriff elected who was a pretty reasonable guy. He got rid of most of the old deputies and brought in new guys. In the first few weeks they were there, they literally found over 150 indictments that were stuffed in cabinets or hidden and that had never been served by the previous administration. That can only mean that those indictments were going to be handed down against buddies of theirs in the community and/or people had paid them off to not serve them. These indictments, many signed by me sometimes years earlier, were not shredded or destroyed but were simply "misplaced" for plausible deniability reasons.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:05 pm

My theory is the vast amount of county governments (county commissioners, sheriff's offices, etc) are completely corrupt. You have a combination of lack of public oversight (everyone cares about their mayor, city councilors, but cannot name their county commissioners. Many sheriffs serve for decades and are primarily figureheads who appoint their friends,) and a little man syndrome (police departments/city govt have much larger budgets) and it all just leads to corruption.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:30 pm

The good ol' boy network is alive and well in more places than people would ever care to admit.
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Re: The General TV Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:35 pm

Bunts Lick Butts wrote:My theory is the vast amount of county governments (county commissioners, sheriff's offices, etc) are completely corrupt. You have a combination of lack of public oversight (everyone cares about their mayor, city councilors, but cannot name their county commissioners. Many sheriffs serve for decades and are primarily figureheads who appoint their friends,) and a little man syndrome (police departments/city govt have much larger budgets) and it all just leads to corruption.


Correct theory, especially in rural and poor areas. One of my counties had a per capita income of around $26,000, which made it one of the poorest counties in the country. In a place like that there is zero oversight because no one really gives a [expletive].
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