Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

dew
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Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby dew » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:20 pm

The second district court of appeals in California has apparently ruled that homeschooling is unconstitutional - yes, unconstitutional - without proper credentials. :shock: I'm not exactly sure how to properly express how insanely idiotic this lawmaking by the court system is.

Nowhere that I know of in the constitution is there anything that could even remotely lead someone to believe that homeschooling children could be unconstitutional. Especially considering that attending school wasn't even mandatory when the constitution was written.

Another horrible example of activist judges trying to re-write the constitution. I'm sure this, like most of this ridiculous court's rulings, will be overturned, at least.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby Jehrico » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:24 pm

It should be unconstitutional to allow some of the people we have out there running schools or teaching in them (like the school where the 6 year old was suspended for sniffing the marker stain on his shirt) to be doing so.

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby dew » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:27 pm

Jehrico wrote:It should be unconstitutional to allow some of the people we have out there running schools or teaching in them (like the school where the 6 year old was suspended for sniffing the marker stain on his shirt) to be doing so.


Exactly. I'm not a big fan of mandatory schooling anyway (though with the country as it is today, it's probably necessary), but with as shoddy a state as the school system is, I see nothing wrong with homeschooling your kids.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby ctcf » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:42 pm

dew wrote:
Jehrico wrote:It should be unconstitutional to allow some of the people we have out there running schools or teaching in them (like the school where the 6 year old was suspended for sniffing the marker stain on his shirt) to be doing so.


Exactly. I'm not a big fan of mandatory schooling anyway (though with the country as it is today, it's probably necessary), but with as shoddy a state as the school system is, I see nothing wrong with homeschooling your kids.


While I'm certainly not a fan of our current public school system by any means, how could you possibly not want mandatory schooling?

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:43 pm

CT Cubs Fan 38 wrote:
dew wrote:
Jehrico wrote:It should be unconstitutional to allow some of the people we have out there running schools or teaching in them (like the school where the 6 year old was suspended for sniffing the marker stain on his shirt) to be doing so.


Exactly. I'm not a big fan of mandatory schooling anyway (though with the country as it is today, it's probably necessary), but with as shoddy a state as the school system is, I see nothing wrong with homeschooling your kids.


While I'm certainly not a fan of our current public school system by any means, how could you possibly not want mandatory schooling?


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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby OleMissCub » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:45 pm

IMB! wrote:
CT Cubs Fan 38 wrote:
dew wrote:
Jehrico wrote:It should be unconstitutional to allow some of the people we have out there running schools or teaching in them (like the school where the 6 year old was suspended for sniffing the marker stain on his shirt) to be doing so.


Exactly. I'm not a big fan of mandatory schooling anyway (though with the country as it is today, it's probably necessary), but with as shoddy a state as the school system is, I see nothing wrong with homeschooling your kids.


While I'm certainly not a fan of our current public school system by any means, how could you possibly not want mandatory schooling?


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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:54 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
IMB! wrote:
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby CubinNY » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:02 pm

dew wrote:The second district court of appeals in California has apparently ruled that homeschooling is unconstitutional - yes, unconstitutional - without proper credentials. :shock: I'm not exactly sure how to properly express how insanely idiotic this lawmaking by the court system is.

Nowhere that I know of in the constitution is there anything that could even remotely lead someone to believe that homeschooling children could be unconstitutional. Especially considering that attending school wasn't even mandatory when the constitution was written.

Another horrible example of activist judges trying to re-write the constitution. I'm sure this, like most of this ridiculous court's rulings, will be overturned, at least.

You have it exactly backwards. Parents don't have a "constitutional" right to homeschool their children. And this is a law that relates to THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA not The US.

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby OleMissCub » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:04 pm

CubinNY wrote:You have it exactly backwards. Parents don't have a "constitutional" right to homeschool their children. And this is a law that relates to THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA not The US.


Correct. Educational law, along with Criminal and Family law, are generally state issues.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby dew » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:16 pm

CT Cubs Fan 38 wrote:
dew wrote:
Jehrico wrote:It should be unconstitutional to allow some of the people we have out there running schools or teaching in them (like the school where the 6 year old was suspended for sniffing the marker stain on his shirt) to be doing so.


Exactly. I'm not a big fan of mandatory schooling anyway (though with the country as it is today, it's probably necessary), but with as shoddy a state as the school system is, I see nothing wrong with homeschooling your kids.


While I'm certainly not a fan of our current public school system by any means, how could you possibly not want mandatory schooling?


It's probably necessary at this point, but I'm not convinced it was needed in the first place. When you look at the abysmal state of government schools today, it's hard to feel good about making it mandatory to send a child to them.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby dew » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:24 pm

CubinNY wrote:
dew wrote:The second district court of appeals in California has apparently ruled that homeschooling is unconstitutional - yes, unconstitutional - without proper credentials. :shock: I'm not exactly sure how to properly express how insanely idiotic this lawmaking by the court system is.

Nowhere that I know of in the constitution is there anything that could even remotely lead someone to believe that homeschooling children could be unconstitutional. Especially considering that attending school wasn't even mandatory when the constitution was written.

Another horrible example of activist judges trying to re-write the constitution. I'm sure this, like most of this ridiculous court's rulings, will be overturned, at least.

You have it exactly backwards. Parents don't have a "constitutional" right to homeschool their children. And this is a law that relates to THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA not The US.


It's not the district court's job to pass a law restricting it, that's what the lawmakers in the state are around for. The court is simply supposed to interpret said laws - it appears the court is overstepping its bounds here.

You and OMC are correct, though, on it being a state issue and if California has a law stating this then I will back off from my original statements a bit. I was going off this from the article though:

Until now, California allowed home schooling if parents filed paperwork to establish themselves as small, private schools; hired a credentialed tutor; or enrolled their child in an independent study program run by an established school while teaching the child at home.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby Derwood » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:40 pm

i don't know about constitutional, but I think it's absolutely right to demand that homeschooled kids are getting taught by accredited teachers. why should the state award high school diplomas to kids who are being taught by unqualified teachers (ie their parents)?

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby dew » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:48 pm

Derwood wrote:i don't know about constitutional, but I think it's absolutely right to demand that homeschooled kids are getting taught by accredited teachers. why should the state award high school diplomas to kids who are being taught by unqualified teachers (ie their parents)?


There are actually safeguards put in place to make sure parents teach proper course material through accredited books, etc.

My sister homeschooled through high school and my mom (who is not an accredited teacher) received all the same course materials private schools in the area received. My sister's progress was also monitored. And she's now in college doing quite well - she's showing no signs whatsoever that she was homeschooled.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby Jehrico » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:51 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
IMB! wrote:
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both posts = A+

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby chasinf5s » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:14 pm

The second district court of appeals in California


such a stupid state with even dumber people

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby Chris » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:35 pm

chasinf5s wrote:
The second district court of appeals in California


such a stupid state with even dumber people


I think Raisin will disagree.

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby Balsa » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:56 pm

Good. The whole idea is pretty silly anyway.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby BigbadB » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:46 am

Derwood wrote:i don't know about constitutional, but I think it's absolutely right to demand that homeschooled kids are getting taught by accredited teachers. why should the state award high school diplomas to kids who are being taught by unqualified teachers (ie their parents)?


California ranks as one of the worst 3 states in the country in education each and every year. The state is just mad that parents have had enough and want more for their children.

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby CubinNY » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:22 pm

BigbadB wrote:
Derwood wrote:i don't know about constitutional, but I think it's absolutely right to demand that homeschooled kids are getting taught by accredited teachers. why should the state award high school diplomas to kids who are being taught by unqualified teachers (ie their parents)?


California ranks as one of the worst 3 states in the country in education each and every year. The state is just mad that parents have had enough and want more for their children.

The answer lies not in rejecting the system but in changing the system. The idea that a parent can be a teacher without qualifications is akin to practicing medicine without a license. The people who are homeschooling are rejecting public and private education. They are doing so almost exclusively for religious reasons that has nothing to do with the mythical quality of education.

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby Handlebar McSkullet » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:25 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
CubinNY wrote:You have it exactly backwards. Parents don't have a "constitutional" right to homeschool their children. And this is a law that relates to THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA not The US.


Correct. Educational law, along with Criminal and Family law, are generally state issues.


These posts should end the conversation.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:36 pm

I'll come out of the closet here. I was homeschooled a lot growing up. Luckily, sports kept me around kids my own age year round, so I never struggled with the social retardation that a lot of people go through. But some of those kids...man, I've got some stories, I'll tell you that.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby hardcorecubfan » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:20 pm

California court system, do we need to say anymore on this subject?
I would agree with you, but then we would both be wrong!

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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby dew » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:09 pm

CubinNY wrote:
BigbadB wrote:
Derwood wrote:i don't know about constitutional, but I think it's absolutely right to demand that homeschooled kids are getting taught by accredited teachers. why should the state award high school diplomas to kids who are being taught by unqualified teachers (ie their parents)?


California ranks as one of the worst 3 states in the country in education each and every year. The state is just mad that parents have had enough and want more for their children.

The answer lies not in rejecting the system but in changing the system. The idea that a parent can be a teacher without qualifications is akin to practicing medicine without a license. The people who are homeschooling are rejecting public and private education. They are doing so almost exclusively for religious reasons that has nothing to do with the mythical quality of education.


My sister actually homeschooled solely on the basis of poor education. The high schools around here were terrible and she learned quite a bit more through homeschooling. Just because you're not an accredited teacher doesn't mean you can't teach.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby dew » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:13 pm

Handlebar McSkullet wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
CubinNY wrote:You have it exactly backwards. Parents don't have a "constitutional" right to homeschool their children. And this is a law that relates to THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA not The US.


Correct. Educational law, along with Criminal and Family law, are generally state issues.


These posts should end the conversation.


Is it already a law in California that non-accredited parents cannot homeschool? If not, then the court overstepped its bounds. If so, the court didn't.
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Re: Homeschooling w/out credentials unconstitutional

Postby TruffleShuffle » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:35 pm

IMB! wrote:I'll come out of the closet here. I was homeschooled a lot growing up. Luckily, sports kept me around kids my own age year round, so I never struggled with the social retardation that a lot of people go through. But some of those kids...man, I've got some stories, I'll tell you that.


yeah i have a couple of friends who are normal and well-adjusted, and were home schooled until late in high school. but they were on a number of swim teams and their parents did stuff to keep them in social settings. but yeah, there are some parents who want to home school their kids seemingly because they don't want their kids to be too far from the nest, and those are the kids who have absolutely no social skills whatsoever, and probably don't end up dating until they're 35.


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