The Politics Thread

User avatar
Hairyducked Idiot
Kyle in disguise
Posts: 31177
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:42 am
Location: Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:49 am

Trump already shifting focus to demanding the release of Obama's academic records.

User avatar
wvcbxl
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 6024
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 2:49 am
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Contact:

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby wvcbxl » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:52 am

shnsajax wrote:
Derwood wrote:I understand all the costs of developing medicines. I'm not saying drugs should be free.

However, once a drug is developed, patented, etc., and the costs are recouped, why does the cost stay fixed? Consumers are then paying for the millions of dollars the companies put into advertising, etc., which doesn't benefit them at all. Are Viagra and Cialis still trying to recoup their R&D costs? Unlikely


I remember something about pharmaceutical companies being able to buy a specific amount of years where generic varieties of the drugs could not be produced allowing them to maintain a high cost for a period of time.


Patents on drugs are usually 20 years, but you must factor in the time necessary to get the drugs registered before they hit the market - that can take another 10 years. So basically, the patent holder can market his drug at his chosen price for about ten years.
Pharmaceutical companies are however very adept at extending that period through the creative use of additional patents.
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits. - Satchel Paige.

User avatar
C.C.
Hall of Fame
Posts: 24547
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:06 am
Location: Chicago

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby C.C. » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:54 am

Trump:


Speaking at a press conference in New Hampshire, the potential presidential contender said that he's "proud" in light of the disclosure. He added, however, "it is rather amazing that all of the sudden" the document surfaces. He suggested it should be inspected to ensure its authenticity.


What a complete idiot.

User avatar
swordsman
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 5145
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 12:52 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby swordsman » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:03 am

mike2482 wrote:
shnsajax wrote:
Derwood wrote:I understand all the costs of developing medicines. I'm not saying drugs should be free.

However, once a drug is developed, patented, etc., and the costs are recouped, why does the cost stay fixed? Consumers are then paying for the millions of dollars the companies put into advertising, etc., which doesn't benefit them at all. Are Viagra and Cialis still trying to recoup their R&D costs? Unlikely


I remember something about pharmaceutical companies being able to buy a specific amount of years where generic varieties of the drugs could not be produced allowing them to maintain a high cost for a period of time.


Pharmaceutical Companies have like 7 years after FDA approval to sell the drug until generics come out and only a few drugs sell real well in the first couple of years, Viagra is one of the few that took off immediately. I worked at Pfizer for a couple of years and they invested billions of dollars into developing an inhale-able insulin, only to pull the plug 2 years after approval, due to lack of sales (or so they say). They sent us home in October and paid us full time until May (trying to bring a new drug to the building they just spent 76 billion on) and when that didn't happen they gave us our 60 days notice and then a severance pay of 6 weeks plus 3 weeks per year worked and paid the employer portion of our insurance for one year. So there are a lot of costs to R&D and other costs like this. That being said I wouldn't be opposed to extending the patent to lower drug costs.


Do people really believe that phama companies will really lower the costs of new drugs if you extend the number of years they can make good money on them?

Really?
There are things you know and things you believe. When life kicks you in the breadbasket, all you have to cling to is what you believe 'cus all you know is hurt.

Jon
Hall of Fame
Posts: 42273
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Jon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:17 am

soapy wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:Obama is releasing the long-form birth certificate in the next hour, along with a press conference.

Kinda pointless, seeing as how it'll just be called a fake in some circles.


yeah, i hate to seem them play along with this.

I agree to an extent, but at the same time, if this was planned out, they did a pretty good job. They allowed a really large movement to build and identify themselves as crazy. The birthers put in a lot of time and effort into this issue. Now that this is out, they look even crazier and now have to scramble to come up with something else. Or stick with it and lose a lot of followers. It does a decent job of neutralizing those people.

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 56771
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:45 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:23 am

Jon wrote:
soapy wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:Obama is releasing the long-form birth certificate in the next hour, along with a press conference.

Kinda pointless, seeing as how it'll just be called a fake in some circles.


yeah, i hate to seem them play along with this.

I agree to an extent, but at the same time, if this was planned out, they did a pretty good job. They allowed a really large movement to build and identify themselves as crazy. The birthers put in a lot of time and effort into this issue. Now that this is out, they look even crazier and now have to scramble to come up with something else. Or stick with it and lose a lot of followers. It does a decent job of neutralizing those people.


No, this is just yet another stupidly miscalculated move by this administration. I thought they were doing the smart thing and taking the high road, but now that they're effectively conceding it's not any kind of "victory" for Obama and co.; it's just showing that they'll capitulate to the crazies. This isn't going to prove anything to anyone who genuinely thinks he wasn't born in the U.S.. Those people are never going to be swayed by anything Obama does or says. It's just yet another thing that makes him and his administration look weak, indecisive and easily pushed around.

Really hope he's got something awesome hidden up his sleeve for the second term, because this one has been wretched.
Abbc3 Spoiler Show

Jon
Hall of Fame
Posts: 42273
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Jon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:30 am

Nuts&Gum wrote:
Jon wrote:
soapy wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:Obama is releasing the long-form birth certificate in the next hour, along with a press conference.

Kinda pointless, seeing as how it'll just be called a fake in some circles.


yeah, i hate to seem them play along with this.

I agree to an extent, but at the same time, if this was planned out, they did a pretty good job. They allowed a really large movement to build and identify themselves as crazy. The birthers put in a lot of time and effort into this issue. Now that this is out, they look even crazier and now have to scramble to come up with something else. Or stick with it and lose a lot of followers. It does a decent job of neutralizing those people.


No, this is just yet another stupidly miscalculated move by this administration. I thought they were doing the smart thing and taking the high road, but now that they're effectively conceding it's not any kind of "victory" for Obama and co.; it's just showing that they'll capitulate to the crazies. This isn't going to prove anything to anyone who genuinely thinks he wasn't born in the U.S.. Those people are never going to be swayed by anything Obama does or says. It's just yet another thing that makes him and his administration look weak, indecisive and easily pushed around.

Really hope he's got something awesome hidden up his sleeve for the second term, because this one has been wretched.

The point isn't to try to change the minds of the birthers. It's to have the birther movement grow large enough to have an influence in the Republican candidate race, take away one of their main rallying points, and leave them less appealing to people who were on the fence.

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 56771
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:45 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:35 am

Jon wrote:
Nuts&Gum wrote:
Jon wrote:
soapy wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:Obama is releasing the long-form birth certificate in the next hour, along with a press conference.

Kinda pointless, seeing as how it'll just be called a fake in some circles.


yeah, i hate to seem them play along with this.

I agree to an extent, but at the same time, if this was planned out, they did a pretty good job. They allowed a really large movement to build and identify themselves as crazy. The birthers put in a lot of time and effort into this issue. Now that this is out, they look even crazier and now have to scramble to come up with something else. Or stick with it and lose a lot of followers. It does a decent job of neutralizing those people.


No, this is just yet another stupidly miscalculated move by this administration. I thought they were doing the smart thing and taking the high road, but now that they're effectively conceding it's not any kind of "victory" for Obama and co.; it's just showing that they'll capitulate to the crazies. This isn't going to prove anything to anyone who genuinely thinks he wasn't born in the U.S.. Those people are never going to be swayed by anything Obama does or says. It's just yet another thing that makes him and his administration look weak, indecisive and easily pushed around.

Really hope he's got something awesome hidden up his sleeve for the second term, because this one has been wretched.

The point isn't to try to change the minds of the birthers. It's to have the birther movement grow large enough to have an influence in the Republican candidate race, take away one of their main rallying points, and leave them less appealing to people who were on the fence.


They were already unappealing to people on the fence. The birthers attracted almost nobody who would vote for Obama even if their lives depended on it. It's catering to crazies, period, and if anything can work as a negative because it shows that they'll capitulate to crazy demands. All this does is open up the gate for strengthened calls for "proof that he's not a Muslim" and to release his academic records and then it'll be his medical records and so on and so on and so on. The birthers had little to no impact on fence-sitters.
Abbc3 Spoiler Show

User avatar
kujay
Superstar
Posts: 19408
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:46 am
Location: Kansas City

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby kujay » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:40 am

Yeah, this is total capitulation. Sort of a recurring theme with this President, no?
Just an average guy with exceptional hair. No more, no less.

User avatar
Banedon
Curse You!
Posts: 56403
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:36 pm
Location: Kidding Myself

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Banedon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:42 am

He started the conference by calling out NBC's Chuck Todd directly.

"I can't get the networks to break in on all kinds of other discussions," he said. "I was just back there listening to Chuck—he was saying, it’s amazing that he’s not going to be talking about national security. I would not have the networks breaking in if I was talking about that, Chuck, and you know it."

He then said that part of the reason that he wanted to release the birth certificate was because he was seeing coverage of the issue dominate the media, rather than discussion of the federal budget or other issues.

"I am speaking for the vast majority of the American people as well as for the press," he said. "We do not have time for this kind of silliness. We have better stuff to do. I have got better stuff to do. We have got big problems to solve."

Jon
Hall of Fame
Posts: 42273
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Jon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:17 am

Nuts&Gum wrote:They were already unappealing to people on the fence. The birthers attracted almost nobody who would vote for Obama even if their lives depended on it. It's catering to crazies, period, and if anything can work as a negative because it shows that they'll capitulate to crazy demands. All this does is open up the gate for strengthened calls for "proof that he's not a Muslim" and to release his academic records and then it'll be his medical records and so on and so on and so on. The birthers had little to no impact on fence-sitters.

It's not about the birthers. It's about the Republican party and those on the fence of voting Republican. Letting the birthers gain greater presence in the Republican presidential candidate race was a good thing for Obama. Now making them change gears and latch onto an even less mainstream conspiracy just weakens that party, particularly when Obama can position himself as the one who is actually talking about things that matter to people, unlike the birther-tolerant Republican party.

User avatar
Castro's Spray Chart
previously Beertown Cubbie
Posts: 8049
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: the REAL chicago

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Castro's Spray Chart » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:23 am

Banedon wrote:
He started the conference by calling out NBC's Chuck Todd directly.

"I can't get the networks to break in on all kinds of other discussions," he said. "I was just back there listening to Chuck—he was saying, it’s amazing that he’s not going to be talking about national security. I would not have the networks breaking in if I was talking about that, Chuck, and you know it."

He then said that part of the reason that he wanted to release the birth certificate was because he was seeing coverage of the issue dominate the media, rather than discussion of the federal budget or other issues.

"I am speaking for the vast majority of the American people as well as for the press," he said. "We do not have time for this kind of silliness. We have better stuff to do. I have got better stuff to do. We have got big problems to solve."


All pronouns and no link. Is this Trump?
neely wrote:but in reality
2006 .364
2007 .351
2008 his one big year
2009 .347
2010 90 games played
2011 .323
what do you call that?

User avatar
EhDubya
All-Star
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:01 pm

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby EhDubya » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:26 am

pretty sure its Obama.

User avatar
WrigleyField 22
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 8355
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:48 pm
Location: hnderstabxcwhsg

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:26 am

TruffleShuffle wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:A couple of things to consider with pharmaceuticals and health care.


i read all this and i understand what you're getting at - just my personal experience, currently living in australia and accessing health care from a private health care company, is that the system here has much lower premiums, is more efficient, cheaper medication and people live just as long as in america. and my understanding is that there is a significantly lower percentage of people without coverage here than there is in the u.s. so what i wish could be answered more simply is, why are things this way?

It sounds like you're addressing health care as whole, and I don't have an answer to that. I was just trying to provide some insight into the approval process and stuff for pharmacueticals.

And I'll make my point clearer because some people seems to think there is a set time limit that drug companies have to sell their drug. This isn't the case. They have 20 years from the filing date, so they may have 1 year or 10 years. Someone mentioned something about creative re-filing of patents, and I wouldn't be surprised if things like that took place, but the fact remains that they have limitations to recoup that investment and that investment is expensive. And we pop a lot of pills these days. Things are better diagnosed and in some cases overly/wrongly diagnosed. We are unhealthier, causing some additional health problems that could be avoided. And the pharma companies will continue to try and come up with solutions to our ailments.

I'm not necessarily defeding it or anything, but thats the reason why its the way it is, along with the fact that they are still profit companies and when people are sick they will have a high demand for a product. Its not necessarily a big mystery why things are the way they are. The hard part is coming up with practical and effective solutions.
ImageImage

User avatar
Castro's Spray Chart
previously Beertown Cubbie
Posts: 8049
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: the REAL chicago

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Castro's Spray Chart » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:27 am

EhDubya wrote:pretty sure its Obama.


Oh yeah, duh. I just really really hoped it was Trump backpedaling as fast as his legs could carry him.
neely wrote:but in reality
2006 .364
2007 .351
2008 his one big year
2009 .347
2010 90 games played
2011 .323
what do you call that?

User avatar
C.C.
Hall of Fame
Posts: 24547
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:06 am
Location: Chicago

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby C.C. » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:29 am

BeertownCubbie wrote:
EhDubya wrote:pretty sure its Obama.


Oh yeah, duh. I just really really hoped it was Trump backpedaling as fast as his legs could carry him.



He's not. He's taking credit for it.

User avatar
Banedon
Curse You!
Posts: 56403
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:36 pm
Location: Kidding Myself

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Banedon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:33 am

BeertownCubbie wrote:
EhDubya wrote:pretty sure its Obama.


Oh yeah, duh. I just really really hoped it was Trump backpedaling as fast as his legs could carry him.


Yeah sorry, it's Obama.

User avatar
SouthSideRyan
is ELL
Posts: 47568
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:08 am
Location: Chicago Loop

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:34 am

Jon wrote:
Nuts&Gum wrote:They were already unappealing to people on the fence. The birthers attracted almost nobody who would vote for Obama even if their lives depended on it. It's catering to crazies, period, and if anything can work as a negative because it shows that they'll capitulate to crazy demands. All this does is open up the gate for strengthened calls for "proof that he's not a Muslim" and to release his academic records and then it'll be his medical records and so on and so on and so on. The birthers had little to no impact on fence-sitters.

It's not about the birthers. It's about the Republican party and those on the fence of voting Republican. Letting the birthers gain greater presence in the Republican presidential candidate race was a good thing for Obama. Now making them change gears and latch onto an even less mainstream conspiracy just weakens that party, particularly when Obama can position himself as the one who is actually talking about things that matter to people, unlike the birther-tolerant Republican party.


This makes no sense.
Exile on Waveland wrote: IU smells like poop.

User avatar
Ding Dong Johnson
Crap Bag
Posts: 24935
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:42 pm
Location: Durnsville

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:39 am

So what happens when the birth certificate is proven to be fake and/or proof he renounced his citizenship surfaces?
Image

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 56771
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:45 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:42 am

SouthSideRyan wrote:
Jon wrote:
Nuts&Gum wrote:They were already unappealing to people on the fence. The birthers attracted almost nobody who would vote for Obama even if their lives depended on it. It's catering to crazies, period, and if anything can work as a negative because it shows that they'll capitulate to crazy demands. All this does is open up the gate for strengthened calls for "proof that he's not a Muslim" and to release his academic records and then it'll be his medical records and so on and so on and so on. The birthers had little to no impact on fence-sitters.

It's not about the birthers. It's about the Republican party and those on the fence of voting Republican. Letting the birthers gain greater presence in the Republican presidential candidate race was a good thing for Obama. Now making them change gears and latch onto an even less mainstream conspiracy just weakens that party, particularly when Obama can position himself as the one who is actually talking about things that matter to people, unlike the birther-tolerant Republican party.


This makes no sense.


None at all. Whether he's a Muslim or not or what he's "hiding" with his academic records is just as "mainstream" as the birth certificate. This does nothing to defuse the birthers themselves and, if anything, makes the administration look petulant, panicked and distracted.

Though with the administration is going, I wouldn't be surprised if Jon's baffling strategy is what they're thinking, too.
Abbc3 Spoiler Show

User avatar
Derwood
Stall Monitor
Posts: 58429
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:44 am
Location: 375 Miles East of Wrigley

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:50 am

Releasing it was good for some LULZ, but the loonies predictably moved the goal posts again

Jon
Hall of Fame
Posts: 42273
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Jon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:53 am

You keep coming back to the idea that this is to diffuse the birthers. They are a useful group of people to Obama. It's about creating a line between their presence in the Republican party and the undecided voters. Taking a few minutes to address an issue in which the majority of Americans are unconvinced about makes plenty of sense.

And it certainly doesn't make them looked panicked. This has been going on since the beginning of his administration. It takes no resources to release it. If anything, this makes Obama looked pissed that people aren't focusing on what really matters.

Tarver
All-Star
Posts: 1052
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 4:50 pm

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Tarver » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:11 am

Is anyone really surprised? He's starting to make Carter look like Nixon.

Tarver
All-Star
Posts: 1052
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 4:50 pm

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby Tarver » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:13 am

Jon wrote:You keep coming back to the idea that this is to diffuse the birthers. They are a useful group of people to Obama. It's about creating a line between their presence in the Republican party and the undecided voters. Taking a few minutes to address an issue in which the majority of Americans are unconvinced about makes plenty of sense.

And it certainly doesn't make them looked panicked. This has been going on since the beginning of his administration. It takes no resources to release it. If anything, this makes Obama looked pissed that people aren't focusing on what really matters.


A majority of Americans? I really hope that isn't true, or we might as well just start planning on the best way to break the union up.

User avatar
swordsman
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 5145
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 12:52 pm
Location: Chicago Burbs

Re: General Politics Thread

Postby swordsman » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:22 am

Tarver wrote:Is anyone really surprised? He's starting to make Carter look like Nixon.


I don't understand.
There are things you know and things you believe. When life kicks you in the breadbasket, all you have to cling to is what you believe 'cus all you know is hurt.


Return to “Social”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest