Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

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Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:36 pm

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:46 pm

I expected the Brownlie comparison, but I didn't expect that comparision to be followed with an "I love this pick."
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:47 pm

You can also expect the Brownlie comparison with Chris Carpenter...and Alex Wilson if we sign him.
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby UK » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:53 pm

Aaron's change-up last year wasn't as sharp as it was early on at WSU. He left me unimpressed when I saw him against BU.

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:58 pm

Different injuries for all four of them, no? Wilson could be compared to Huseby in a way (late summer sign & TJS), though it doesn't appear the stuff compare and obviously Wilson isn't a HS guy.

That was the most promising write up I've seen on Shafer yet.

If Flaherty can stick at second, that'll be nice.

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:02 pm

PingHitter wrote:Aaron's change-up last year wasn't as sharp as it was early on at WSU. He left me unimpressed when I saw him against BU.


How much of that could be related to possible elbow problems? I know fastball command is heavily affected by elbow problems (velo not so much which is odd in this case). Also, how much does TJ affect changeups on the way back? I can't think of many guys other than Angel Guzman who had TJ and have a good changeup. Guzman's change came all the way back, although command of his fastball didn't appear to.

And a quick rant (no offense) quality of feel/finesse pitches vary a lot from start to start, it's possible you saw him on a bad day considering you just saw him once. However, given the elbow problems you're probably not catching him on a bad day.
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:06 pm

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:Different injuries for all four of them, no? Wilson could be compared to Huseby in a way (late summer sign & TJS), though it doesn't appear the stuff compare and obviously Wilson isn't a HS guy.

That was the most promising write up I've seen on Shafer yet.

If Flaherty can stick at second, that'll be nice.


I've been on Shafer's bandwagon for a few years now. And the four of them I was just comparing high upside guys that are damaged goods. Stuff/injury type comparisons aren't really what i was going for. That being said Wilson and Carpenter are similar pitchers and both had TJ.
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:08 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:
PingHitter wrote:Aaron's change-up last year wasn't as sharp as it was early on at WSU. He left me unimpressed when I seen him against BU.


How much of that could be related to possible elbow problems? I know fastball command is heavily affected by elbow problems (velo not so much which is odd in this case). Also, how much does TJ affect changeups on the way back? I can't think of many guys other than Angel Guzman who had TJ and have a good changeup. Guzman's change came all the way back, although command of his fastball didn't appear to.

And a quick rant (no offense) quality of feel/finesse pitches vary a lot from start to start, it's possible you saw him on a bad day considering you just saw him once. However, given the elbow problems you're probably not catching him on a bad day.


Guzman just had TJS last summer so I don't think you've seen him come back from it...have you?

ETA: What were his arm problems before? Shoulder?

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:09 pm

With his size and his questionable SS defense, I'd think DeRosa would be a better comp for Flaherty.

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby UK » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:19 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:
PingHitter wrote:Aaron's change-up last year wasn't as sharp as it was early on at WSU. He left me unimpressed when I saw him against BU.


How much of that could be related to possible elbow problems? I know fastball command is heavily affected by elbow problems (velo not so much which is odd in this case). Also, how much does TJ affect changeups on the way back? I can't think of many guys other than Angel Guzman who had TJ and have a good changeup. Guzman's change came all the way back, although command of his fastball didn't appear to.

And a quick rant (no offense) quality of feel/finesse pitches vary a lot from start to start, it's possible you saw him on a bad day considering you just saw him once. However, given the elbow problems you're probably not catching him on a bad day.


I'm sure it did play a role and I could've caught him on a bad day, but between the game I seen as well as talking to other MVC coaches, he wasn't nearly as sharp as he had been.

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:21 pm

Yeah there's no doubt he wasn't as sharp. The question with him is if the stuff comes back eventually. He's a risk, no doubt. Either way his present stuff, pitchability and command ought to make him move through the lower minors quickly. Have you heard anything about him since being drafted?

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Mephistopheles wrote:
PingHitter wrote:Aaron's change-up last year wasn't as sharp as it was early on at WSU. He left me unimpressed when I seen him against BU.


How much of that could be related to possible elbow problems? I know fastball command is heavily affected by elbow problems (velo not so much which is odd in this case). Also, how much does TJ affect changeups on the way back? I can't think of many guys other than Angel Guzman who had TJ and have a good changeup. Guzman's change came all the way back, although command of his fastball didn't appear to.

And a quick rant (no offense) quality of feel/finesse pitches vary a lot from start to start, it's possible you saw him on a bad day considering you just saw him once. However, given the elbow problems you're probably not catching him on a bad day.


Guzman just had TJS last summer so I don't think you've seen him come back from it...have you?

ETA: What were his arm problems before? Shoulder?


Brain fart. I don't know why I was thinking TJ for him before. He had elbow problems at time though iirc.

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:With his size and his questionable SS defense, I'd think DeRosa would be a better comp for Flaherty.


Well considering I think the only difference between Fontenot and DeRosa is the side they bat from, either one works. I was also thinking about handedness and the fact they come from successful college programs and went in the first round. Then again DeRosa and Flaherty went to Penn and Vanderbilt. If you want to get the size correct as well: Todd Walker?
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:25 pm

Is there any possibility of Flaherty getting more power given his size (though he's not showing it now in XBH-friendly Boise)?

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby UK » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:26 pm

I hadn't heard a thing about him recently, I agree that with his feel of pitching, multiple avg. pitches, and the command, that he will do well vs. younger less advanced hitters.

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:29 pm

"Meph was like Mozart: When he was on point every other numbers guy was Salieri"
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby salukifudd » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:03 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:Well considering I think the only difference between Fontenot and DeRosa is the side they bat from, either one works. I was also thinking about handedness and the fact they come from successful college programs and went in the first round. Then again DeRosa and Flaherty went to Penn and Vanderbilt. If you want to get the size correct as well: Todd Walker?


Does Flaherty have any chance of being a corner OF defensively (I could see why this might seem as a stupid question)? Is he as athletic as DeRosa? I think that is where the comparison of Flaherty to Font and DeRo begins and ends. Decent AVG/OBP, what would be considered to pan out to MLB average, to below average power. Aren't we looking at utility/glove ability when it comes to the MLB at this point?
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby NCCubFan » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:20 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:Yeah there's no doubt he wasn't as sharp. The question with him is if the stuff comes back eventually. He's a risk, no doubt. Either way his present stuff, pitchability and command ought to make him move through the lower minors quickly. Have you heard anything about him since being drafted?

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Mephistopheles wrote:
PingHitter wrote:Aaron's change-up last year wasn't as sharp as it was early on at WSU. He left me unimpressed when I seen him against BU.


How much of that could be related to possible elbow problems? I know fastball command is heavily affected by elbow problems (velo not so much which is odd in this case). Also, how much does TJ affect changeups on the way back? I can't think of many guys other than Angel Guzman who had TJ and have a good changeup. Guzman's change came all the way back, although command of his fastball didn't appear to.

And a quick rant (no offense) quality of feel/finesse pitches vary a lot from start to start, it's possible you saw him on a bad day considering you just saw him once. However, given the elbow problems you're probably not catching him on a bad day.


Guzman just had TJS last summer so I don't think you've seen him come back from it...have you?

ETA: What were his arm problems before? Shoulder?


Brain fart. I don't know why I was thinking TJ for him before. He had elbow problems at time though iirc.
My recollection is that Guzman's previous problems resulted in labrum surgery. I'm not sure about previous elbow issues, but there certainly could have been. It's hard to keep up with all his injuries.
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:25 pm

I know for a fact he had one right after he signed. He also had his contract voided before we signed him.
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby Mephistopheles » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:27 pm

salukifudd wrote:
Mephistopheles wrote:Well considering I think the only difference between Fontenot and DeRosa is the side they bat from, either one works. I was also thinking about handedness and the fact they come from successful college programs and went in the first round. Then again DeRosa and Flaherty went to Penn and Vanderbilt. If you want to get the size correct as well: Todd Walker?


Does Flaherty have any chance of being a corner OF defensively (I could see why this might seem as a stupid question)? Is he as athletic as DeRosa? I think that is where the comparison of Flaherty to Font and DeRo begins and ends. Decent AVG/OBP, what would be considered to pan out to MLB average, to below average power. Aren't we looking at utility/glove ability when it comes to the MLB at this point?


Flaherty has the tools to play 3B, LF, RF, and 1B as well. His speed takes him out of short and center. He has a much better arm than DeRosa.
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby NCCubFan » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:51 pm

Mephistopheles wrote:I know for a fact he had one right after he signed. He also had his contract voided before we signed him.
That one I forgot about. You're right; he was originally signed by the Royals, then voided.
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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby TruffleShuffle » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:37 pm

yeah the positive comment about shafer was unexpected; from the rest of the analysis i was expecting your take to be "meh" at best

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Re: Fontenot:Flaherty::Brownlie:Shafer

Postby VanceJergins » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:42 am

I'd be happy with a Todd Walker.


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