The Soccer Thread

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The Soccer Thread

Postby Jon » Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:26 pm

Figure it's about time for a thread for all the soccer action (MLS, EPL, USMNT, etc.).

To start it off, the Fire have actually won two straight, in addition to a USOC victory over KC. I believe Chicago is now tied with NE for second in the East with 28 points.

And apparently Beasley was this close to heading to the EPL. There were also talks of him coming back to the MLS with RSL, too, but it appears he'll likely stay with PSV Eindhoven. In addition, the MLS prevented a $1.5 million transfer of Dempsey to Charlton Athletic recently.

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Postby Mark Prior's Calves » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:15 pm

Chelsea won its first match of the season 3-0 over Man City. I like how Deadspin covered the game, "it looked like the Globetrotters v. Generals."

I love Fox Soccer Channel.

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Postby USSoccer » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:17 pm

Speakign of that Dempsey transfer, he issued a statement saying he would never, ever sign with MLS again. His current contract runs through the end of next season. The USMNT fan in me wishes MLS would have done the best thing for it's long term health and let Deuce go ply his trade in the EPL. The better the 'Nats are, the healthier MLS is.
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Postby Marco4 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:23 pm

After three pre-season friendlies, and then a fortnight away, Tuesday evening will be my first match of the season. The might of Huddersfield Town come face to face with Mansfield Town for a place in the second round of a cup competition that nobody gives a damn about.

I can't even build it up. I'll be there, because I'm always there, but there's no anticipation.
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Postby davecubsfan » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:47 pm

I heart Sirius :) Getting up at 7am to listen to Liverpool Saturday and 7am to listen to Man U Sunday to hear great soccer is well worth the loss of sleep. There's nothing quite like hearing a Cricket Score and the announcers saying they're in a tea break.

MLS is hurting the USMNT more than it's helping it. They should be pleased that European teams want our players and should let them play against the best competition in England, Germany, Italy, and Spain as it will only help in the long run, and they face much stiffer competition than in MLS. Let Landycakes Primodonovan stay over here and play, while Beasley, Spector, and others play in the European leagues.

I don't know how many folks watched the telecast on ESPN of the MLS All Stars vs Chelsea, but it was God awful. Panning around getting stupid crowd shots and they missed the only goal in the match, then Alexi Lawlas has the nerve to say something about "Overpriced Soccer" in an obvious crack towards the EPL. It was funny to me that Landy Cakes was too "hurt" to play against Chelsea, but was right back in the lineup the next week. I hope to God that Dempsey, Adu, and some others go play in Europe or I've got the feeling that we'll see the same results no matter if Klinsmann takes the coaching job. I fear that if Klinsmann takes the job, he and the MLS will go head to head on a few things.

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Postby sethuel1 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:23 pm

USSoccer wrote:Speakign of that Dempsey transfer, he issued a statement saying he would never, ever sign with MLS again. His current contract runs through the end of next season. The USMNT fan in me wishes MLS would have done the best thing for it's long term health and let Deuce go ply his trade in the EPL. The better the 'Nats are, the healthier MLS is.


i am viciously angry that they didn't allow him to transfer. Despite the fact that i and you and a few other people think he's fantastic, his presence in the league doesn't put that many more butts in the seats. $1.5 mil and the experience of another year and a half in the EPL is worth way more to US Soccer.
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Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:25 pm

davecubsfan wrote:I heart Sirius :) Getting up at 7am to listen to Liverpool Saturday and 7am to listen to Man U Sunday to hear great soccer is well worth the loss of sleep. There's nothing quite like hearing a Cricket Score and the announcers saying they're in a tea break.

MLS is hurting the USMNT more than it's helping it. They should be pleased that European teams want our players and should let them play against the best competition in England, Germany, Italy, and Spain as it will only help in the long run, and they face much stiffer competition than in MLS. Let Landycakes Primodonovan stay over here and play, while Beasley, Spector, and others play in the European leagues.

I don't know how many folks watched the telecast on ESPN of the MLS All Stars vs Chelsea, but it was God awful. Panning around getting stupid crowd shots and they missed the only goal in the match, then Alexi Lawlas has the nerve to say something about "Overpriced Soccer" in an obvious crack towards the EPL. It was funny to me that Landy Cakes was too "hurt" to play against Chelsea, but was right back in the lineup the next week. I hope to God that Dempsey, Adu, and some others go play in Europe or I've got the feeling that we'll see the same results no matter if Klinsmann takes the coaching job. I fear that if Klinsmann takes the job, he and the MLS will go head to head on a few things.


I watched that game and don't remember ESPN missing the goal at all. Lalas and Wynalda were really bad about bashing the EPL and praising MLS. The truth is probably in between what they said and the more dismissive "this was an exhibition" stuff Chelsea spouted.

On the whole I think MLS is good for the USMNT, as long as they let the best players go play for the best. As far as Dempsey goes, I don't know the strength of the Charleston Athletic(I can't even find any info on them from google and wikipedia), but I don't have a problem with them holding out for the best possible club to sell the best to. That may not be their attitude though, if they're turning clubs down just to keep Dempsey in MLS then they're in the wrong and hurting the USMNT.

EDIT: And now I see Charleston is part of the EPL. Bad move MLS.

EDIT2: Maybe I'd find out more info if I realized it was spelled Charlton, not Charleston.

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Postby davecubsfan » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:37 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
davecubsfan wrote:I heart Sirius :) Getting up at 7am to listen to Liverpool Saturday and 7am to listen to Man U Sunday to hear great soccer is well worth the loss of sleep. There's nothing quite like hearing a Cricket Score and the announcers saying they're in a tea break.

MLS is hurting the USMNT more than it's helping it. They should be pleased that European teams want our players and should let them play against the best competition in England, Germany, Italy, and Spain as it will only help in the long run, and they face much stiffer competition than in MLS. Let Landycakes Primodonovan stay over here and play, while Beasley, Spector, and others play in the European leagues.

I don't know how many folks watched the telecast on ESPN of the MLS All Stars vs Chelsea, but it was God awful. Panning around getting stupid crowd shots and they missed the only goal in the match, then Alexi Lawlas has the nerve to say something about "Overpriced Soccer" in an obvious crack towards the EPL. It was funny to me that Landy Cakes was too "hurt" to play against Chelsea, but was right back in the lineup the next week. I hope to God that Dempsey, Adu, and some others go play in Europe or I've got the feeling that we'll see the same results no matter if Klinsmann takes the coaching job. I fear that if Klinsmann takes the job, he and the MLS will go head to head on a few things.


I watched that game and don't remember ESPN missing the goal at all. Lalas and Wynalda were really bad about bashing the EPL and praising MLS. The truth is probably in between what they said and the more dismissive "this was an exhibition" stuff Chelsea spouted.

On the whole I think MLS is good for the USMNT, as long as they let the best players go play for the best. As far as Dempsey goes, I don't know the strength of the Charleston Athletic(I can't even find any info on them from google and wikipedia), but I don't have a problem with them holding out for the best possible club to sell the best to. That may not be their attitude though, if they're turning clubs down just to keep Dempsey in MLS then they're in the wrong and hurting the USMNT.

EDIT: And now I see Charleston is part of the EPL. Bad move MLS.


They missed the goal because they were showing crowd shots and showing the idiot sideline reporter. They did have a replay of it, but missed it initially. They cut from the crowd shot to show the celebration, and then showed a replay. The announcing was also horrid. Hey here's an idea, talk about the game and whats going on instead of off the field baloney. I certainly hope that during the next World Cup we'll get an announcing team that's worth a crap. Dave O'Brien and Marco Polo Balboa, Lawlas, Musberger, and Wynalda are just dreadful. I'd rather just have nat sound of the game than have to listen to them again. My absolute favorite moment of the world cup was when Marco Polo Balboa, who couldn't even hold Beck's jock strap was calling him old, over the hill, and saying how worthless he was, but when Becks scored on the free kick, there was sweet silence for a few seconds while he ate his words.

Charlton is a lower tier EPL team, but still it's an EPL team which I think would aid in the development of our players. I also hope that a non MLS coach is put in place for the USMNT so they can't play favorites and leave Spector, Beasley, and others sitting on the pine so their precious MLS stars can play. I roll my eyes every time I hear that the manager for DC United may get it.

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Postby shnsajax » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:00 pm

sethuel1 wrote:
USSoccer wrote:Speakign of that Dempsey transfer, he issued a statement saying he would never, ever sign with MLS again. His current contract runs through the end of next season. The USMNT fan in me wishes MLS would have done the best thing for it's long term health and let Deuce go ply his trade in the EPL. The better the 'Nats are, the healthier MLS is.


i am viciously angry that they didn't allow him to transfer. Despite the fact that i and you and a few other people think he's fantastic, his presence in the league doesn't put that many more butts in the seats. $1.5 mil and the experience of another year and a half in the EPL is worth way more to US Soccer.


They better believe they can get more for a transfer for him otherwise they simply have no excuse for this. Dempsey should be very pissed.

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Postby Mark Prior's Calves » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:04 pm

why does the MLS control the rights to its players when every other club in the world controls their own players?

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Postby USSoccer » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:14 pm

Mark Prior's Calves wrote:why does the MLS control the rights to its players when every other club in the world controls their own players?


The league set it up that way to prevent what happened to the NASL in the early 80's. You had salaries going out of control, and it bankrupted the league.

The current system is okay, because the league is in it's infancy, and still isn't financially stable enough to raise the salary cap high enough to pay top players to play. Like it or not, MLS should act like a minor league system until the interest in the league demands top players stay put.

Seth is dead on. Clint Dempsey is a fantastic player to people who know what they're looking at, but he's a wing mid playing for the best fanbase in the league. They won't miss him. The league doesn't market him as it is, even though they probably should start. Either the league is being greedy trying to get as much as they can for him, or they're being stupid in thinking that the league is better in the long run if Dempsey stays. Either way, his development as a player is being [expletive], which in turn hurts the USMNT, which will hurt MLS more than Dempsey going to Charlton in mid season.

davecubsfan wrote:Charlton is a lower tier EPL team, but still it's an EPL team which I think would aid in the development of our players. I also hope that a non MLS coach is put in place for the USMNT so they can't play favorites and leave Spector, Beasley, and others sitting on the pine so their precious MLS stars can play. I roll my eyes every time I hear that the manager for DC United may get it.


Look what playing for Reading did for Bobby Convey.

Also, I think Peter Nowak might be a favorite for USMNT coach. The way he's continually being pimped for it seems to me to be too indicative of something.
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Postby UMFan83 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:42 pm

When I realized I don't get FSN it hurt to know my hopes of keeping up with the premiership were hindered. When I found out my adopted team Everton is not a high profile team (If I had to guess, I'd put them at like a Anaheim Angels level) and weren't on for week 1 (do they call it week X like the NFL?), I am crushed.

Regardless, Everton looked ok from what I hear against a team that was just promoted. AJ scored a goal in his first game with the team!

Somehow Liverpool, one of the supposed powers could not get more then one point against another just promoted team Sheffield United. That's nuts.

As usual Chelsea (Red Sox) and Man U (Yankees) dominate their opponents and dominate the headlines.

I am starting to realize that the economic disparity in the Premiership puts the supposed disparity in baseball to shame. Does any team other then Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal really come into a given season thinking that they have a shot at the title?
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Postby UMFan83 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:44 pm

USSoccer wrote:
Also, I think Peter Nowak might be a favorite for USMNT coach. The way he's continually being pimped for it seems to me to be too indicative of something.


Isn't he Polish? Does that matter? I'd love for that to happen, I loved him with the Fire.
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Postby sethuel1 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:58 pm

UMFan83 wrote:Does any team other then Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal really come into a given season thinking that they have a shot at the title?


No.
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Postby UMFan83 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:24 pm

sethuel1 wrote:
UMFan83 wrote:Does any team other then Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal really come into a given season thinking that they have a shot at the title?


No.


See this is what I don't get. I don't want to Americanize their game, but why not a playoff?

Sure there is Champions Cup and the other one I'm forgetting, but wouldn't a playoff be a much greater incentive to make other teams be good? Sure securing an expensive transfer might not make your team #1, but if you are good enough to slide in at #4 (the last proposed playoff spot), then your fans are thrilled and you give your shot to beat Chelsea at a best of 3. Can anyone imagine a Man U - Man City series? Liverpool - Everton? I dunno maybe its my American passion for upsets and playoff systems. Just seems very dry to have every team play each other twice and then whoever has the most points at the end wins.
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Postby Marco4 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:34 pm

There is a playoff set-up in the leagues outside the Premiership. The top two (or three) teams are promoted and then the four below that play each other to get the final place.

It does - as you rightly say - keep the interest in the season going a little longer.
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Postby Marco4 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:37 pm

UMFan83 wrote:I am starting to realize that the economic disparity in the Premiership puts the supposed disparity in baseball to shame. Does any team other then Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal really come into a given season thinking that they have a shot at the title?


This is why many football fans were against the creation of the Premiership when it happened in 1992, and why I won't watch the Premiership anyway. Its all about money - who has it, who doesn't, and who will get the most over the next 12 months - the deal for TV money, and now the top four are fairly settled, all the rewards of the Champions League (which is the big pay packet) is theirs.

Until the entry of Abramovich, whenever that was, Chelsea would have been a second level team - like Everton and Spurs - with a chance in the cups, but none in the league, but now they have bought their way into the top standard.
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Postby soccer10k » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:35 am

UMFan83 wrote:As usual Chelsea (Red Sox) and Man U (Yankees) dominate their opponents and dominate the headlines.


A couple years ago Man U was the Yankees but not anymore because Chelsea has inherited that title in the last couple years.
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Postby Mark Prior's Calves » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:22 am

sethuel1 wrote:
UMFan83 wrote:Does any team other then Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal really come into a given season thinking that they have a shot at the title?


No.


Its definitely much worse than MLB with its disparity in finances. Look at Chelsea, up until they were bought by Abramovich, they had a very outside chance of actually winning the Premiership. They were constituently finishing 2-6 in the league. They now have more money than anybody else and have dominated the league to the point some lower tiered teams aren't bringing their 1st squads into Stamford Bridge for a match.

For teams such as Everton, Tottenham, Bolton, Blackburn, Newcastle they are all battling for the 5th league spot, maybe even the 4th spot like last year. Spots 1-4 guarantee a spot in the Championships League, which guarantees more exposure and most importanly more money. The 5th spot goes to the redheaded step child of European competitions the UEFA Cup, which is far less prestigous.

Any team in England, regardless of league, has a chance to win the League Cup and FA Cup which helps them get into Europe. Those tourneys give poorer, less talented teams a chance to win because it can be won with a few victories rather than a long drawn out league season with 38 games.

BTW, Seth, I have Comcast and I got the FSC for $5 a month. I don't know how important it is for you, but to me it was a no-brainer at that cost.

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Postby davecubsfan » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:09 am

UMFan83 wrote:I am starting to realize that the economic disparity in the Premiership puts the supposed disparity in baseball to shame. Does any team other then Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal really come into a given season thinking that they have a shot at the title?


West Ham United did great last year and have been my favorite team for years and years and no one expected them to compete.

Arsenal is a bit of a different bird than the other two. Wenger spends his money wisely on young folks and not on the flavor of the weeks like Chelski and and Man U do. Wenger has built lots of good young cheap talent at Arsenal (Fabregas, Walcott, Reyes (even though he's bound to wind up at Real Madrid) )

The true "playoff" league is the Champions league, and that's good enough for me in football. As someone else said, the top four go into the Champions league, and that is the ULTIMATE playoff series with teams from every major league FA playing against each other. I love the fact that every game counts in the EPL and there's no fooling around just to get into one of the playoff spots. If you fool around, don't play hard, and don't start hot out of the gate, you not only face not finishing in the upper half of the table, you risk relegation, and that's something that American sports sorely need. That's why Reading and Convey are such a good story this year.. Reading has never played in the EPL in their existence in the 1800's.

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Postby sethuel1 » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:26 am

Mark Prior's Calves wrote:BTW, Seth, I have Comcast and I got the FSC for $5 a month. I don't know how important it is for you, but to me it was a no-brainer at that cost.


It's Tony that doesn't get FSC. I have FSC and GolTV (gotta watch my first love - Roma!) through Dish Network.
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Postby hardcorecubfan » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:00 am

coaching my kids team again this year, if you know of any great, simple websites or videos I can look at it would be appreciated. she is now old enough where rules come into play, so now I got to learn them.
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Postby USSoccer » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:02 am

sethuel1 wrote:
Mark Prior's Calves wrote:BTW, Seth, I have Comcast and I got the FSC for $5 a month. I don't know how important it is for you, but to me it was a no-brainer at that cost.


It's Tony that doesn't get FSC. I have FSC and GolTV (gotta watch my first love - Roma!) through Dish Network.


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Postby Mark Prior's Calves » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:21 am

sethuel1 wrote:
Mark Prior's Calves wrote:BTW, Seth, I have Comcast and I got the FSC for $5 a month. I don't know how important it is for you, but to me it was a no-brainer at that cost.


It's Tony that doesn't get FSC. I have FSC and GolTV (gotta watch my first love - Roma!) through Dish Network.


my bad. well in any case, i only spend $5 a month on mine.

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Postby sethuel1 » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:55 am

USSoccer wrote:
sethuel1 wrote:
Mark Prior's Calves wrote:BTW, Seth, I have Comcast and I got the FSC for $5 a month. I don't know how important it is for you, but to me it was a no-brainer at that cost.


It's Tony that doesn't get FSC. I have FSC and GolTV (gotta watch my first love - Roma!) through Dish Network.


If Roma doesn't win Serie A this year I'll be stunned.


You think so? I'm not so sure. Inter signed everyone under the sun, so they worry me. I know they always find a way to screw it up, but still.....

And Milan's starting with what, a 7 point deficit?
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