The Chicago Bulls 2007 Offseason Thread

Exile on Waveland
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Postby Exile on Waveland » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:47 pm

TB_11 wrote:
Exile on Waveland wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Exile on Waveland wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:
Derwood wrote:i love this "Deng and Gordon is too much for Kobe". It's not like Kobe is a top 3 player in the league or anything


Kobe is a top 3 player but the Lakers have limited bargaining power here. The Bulls need to realize that and also realize that Kobe is going to be 29 before next season and will have 11 years on him - he's no spring chicken. I'd be wary of a Kobe trade gutting the team and that's why I'm not completely interested. This isn't to deny that Kobe is a superb basketball player, this is to determine the best possible trade for the Bulls and have the best possible team.


I'm sure the Lakers will go along with whatever is the best possible trade for the Bulls.

Now, I know your point was the Bulls shouldn't gut their team for Kobe, which I agree with. However, no way are the Lakers going to take Gordon, Nocioni and the #9 for Kobe. He's one of the best players in the world and the Bulls are going to get him without giving up Deng, Thomas or Hinrich. That's just not reasonable. If Deng isn't in the deal, then it's going to be Thomas, Gordon/Hinrich and the #9 at least. The Lakers don't have to trade Kobe yet.


Oops, I guess I forgot to say that but I'd definitely do a TT/Gordon/#9 for Kobe.


I quoted you, which was probably unfair. It's just that to get a player of Kobe's caliber, the Bulls will have to give up something that hurts. It seems a lot of posters aren't willing to do so -- Nocioni is a backup, Gordon is replaced by Kobe. Deng or Thomas will be an absolute prerequisite, I'd think.


That's probably true (plus a sign and trade to make the salaries work), but there is a small possibility that Kobe holds out on the Lakers. In a situation like that Buss's best option would be to send Kobe to an Eastern Conference team that can send back young assets, albeit at 50 cents on the dollar. Kobe's holdout would put Paxson in a great bargaining position.


I'd agree with that. If Kobe does holdout, at some point, the Lakers will likely give in and trade him. If so, they'll get less than 10 cents on the dollar. Until that point, though, start the trade package with Deng/Thomas, Gordon and pick, at least.

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Postby RynoRules » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:41 pm

Noc, Gordon, Thomas and the No. 9 I think would be the deal. (Hinrich is untradeable b/c of his status as a base year player, I think) Solves a lot of problems for the Lakers. They'd use the No. 9 for a PG and put Gordon at the 2:

PG at No.9
Gordon
Noc
Thomas
Bynum

8 seed.

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Postby fibro » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:34 pm

For the sake of making salaries work I think Ben Wallace would have to be in any trade proposal or maybe they could work out some three team deal.

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Postby Mark_R » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:39 pm

Most likely, the Bulls would do a S&T with PJB. All of this Kobe talk is contingent on having Noc or PJB agree to play in Los Angeles next season. They can realistically go whereever they want...
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Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:42 pm

Certainly, Mark. There's so much that has to come together for this to work that I'd be stunned if it did happen.

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Postby Keener98 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:56 pm

Kobe again hints at wanting traded on his website.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns

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Postby Keener98 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:58 pm

Not sure where to put all this talk bout Kobe so Ill put it here along with the Bulls thread. Kobe again hinting at wanting traded on his website.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns

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Postby killthegoat06 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:58 pm

I dont think it's worth it.
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Postby DivineBovine » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:58 pm

I have enough faith in Pax that he's not going to gut the team. That said, I say go get him!

If they do it, Deng is definitely gone. And I'd be all for it. And same with Gordon/Hinrich. I hope they could get away with keeping Gordon and losing Hinrich instead- Gordon would be deadly in Kobe's backcourt.

If we somehow managed to keep Nocioni, Wallace, and BG with Kobe, we'd be okay.

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Postby Mark_R » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:36 pm

I think if we deal off Deng, I think its important to see if we can get Luke Walton in return. He and Nocioni would be a perfect SF tandem on this team (and insurance in case Nocioni can't stay healthy).

I'm a bit weary if we deal off Deng, though, that we're giving up too much scoring. Realistically, we're not going to be getting a ton of points in the paint. Kirk will be around 16-18 and the SF tandem would be around 20 or so.

Anybody else feel this way?

One thing that people really need to also acknowledge about getting a guy like Kobe.

Hello enormous backcourt. We go from the smallest backcourt in the league to one of the biggest. Two awesome perimeter defenders in a league with Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Vince Carter, etc. is vital.
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Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:43 pm

Be wary of Luke Walton, Mark. He had some injury problems last season too. Also, I thought I read in the LA Times that he's a free agent.

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Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:48 pm

Keener98 wrote:Not sure where to put all this talk bout Kobe so Ill put it here along with the Bulls thread. Kobe again hinting at wanting traded on his website.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns


I just merged the two threads since we were talking about Kobe in both threads.

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Postby rawaction » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:21 pm

What about a 3-way deal?

I've heard rumors of Odom and Bynum to Indiana for O'Neal.

What about something involving Kobe to the Bulls, O'Neal, Nocioni, and Gordon to the Lakers and the Pacers getting Odom (to make the salaries work), Bynum, Tyrus, and a draft pick?

Works for the Bulls as they keep Deng, Hinrich and Wallace, and should be able to clear the room for Kobe. Works for the Lakers, because they get another big name inside and somewhat replace Kobe's scoring at the 2G spot. Works for the Pacers as they get younger, since they aren't gonna be good anytime soon.

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Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:23 pm

From what I've heard, the O'Neal trade only work if Kobe stays with the Lakers...I guess incentive for Kobe showing that the Lakers are serious about improving the team.

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Postby rawaction » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:28 pm

CaliforniaRaisin wrote:From what I've heard, the O'Neal trade only work if Kobe stays with the Lakers...I guess incentive for Kobe showing that the Lakers are serious about improving the team.


Yeah, I've heard that too, but what if bridges have been burned? Kobe's recent comments have been since the O'Neal rumors started. If Kobe really wants out, the Lakers certainly aren't gonna go into the season with the lineup posted earlier.

PG at No.9
Gordon
Noc
Thomas
Bynum


I can't see the Lakers without that big name in the lineup.

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Postby b_wiggy_66 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:47 pm

rawaction wrote:
CaliforniaRaisin wrote:From what I've heard, the O'Neal trade only work if Kobe stays with the Lakers...I guess incentive for Kobe showing that the Lakers are serious about improving the team.


Yeah, I've heard that too, but what if bridges have been burned? Kobe's recent comments have been since the O'Neal rumors started. If Kobe really wants out, the Lakers certainly aren't gonna go into the season with the lineup posted earlier.

PG at No.9
Gordon
Noc
Thomas
Bynum


I can't see the Lakers without that big name in the lineup.


Theres now way I give up that much for Kobe

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Postby Exile on Waveland » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:27 pm

rawaction wrote:What about a 3-way deal?

I've heard rumors of Odom and Bynum to Indiana for O'Neal.

What about something involving Kobe to the Bulls, O'Neal, Nocioni, and Gordon to the Lakers and the Pacers getting Odom (to make the salaries work), Bynum, Tyrus, and a draft pick?

Works for the Bulls as they keep Deng, Hinrich and Wallace, and should be able to clear the room for Kobe. Works for the Lakers, because they get another big name inside and somewhat replace Kobe's scoring at the 2G spot. Works for the Pacers as they get younger, since they aren't gonna be good anytime soon.


That would actually work quite well for all teams involved (I haven't actually run it through RealGM, so I don't know about salaries). Bulls get Kobe without giving up a ton, the Lakers get a lot back and wouldn't be much worse off considering what they gave up and I love the deal from the Pacers perspective.

Also, for the Pacers, I'd say it depends on how you define "good." It's going to be awhile before they're an actual contender, but they could easily return to the playoffs next season. In the East, that won't necessarily mean they're good, but they are by no means moribund. They just missed the playoffs for the first time since 1997.

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Postby ChiCubsFan » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:27 pm

I actually think this is going to happen now. When superstars want out, they usually get their way. I'm hoping it's Gordon, TT, Duhon (to balance salary), 9th pick. Maybe Noc gets included in there too.

Hinrich
Kobe
Deng
Noc
Wallace

Not bad...if Noc goes, we really need a big man. Even if he stays we need a big man. You could also bring in Thabo off the bench and put Kobe at the 3 and Deng at the 4 when you wanna go small. We definitely need some bench help, but I think Kobe and Deng together puts you in the finals.
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Postby 1908 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:36 am

Kobe can opt out of his contract in two seasons. Unless the trade is heavily in the Bulls favor, I'd keep the core intact as much as possible and woo the 31-year-old Kobe when he's a free agent in two years. It's a suggestion Sam Smith made in today's Tribune, and I can't believe he thought of it.

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Postby Derwood » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:53 am

1908 wrote:Kobe can opt out of his contract in two seasons. Unless the trade is heavily in the Bulls favor, I'd keep the core intact as much as possible and woo the 31-year-old Kobe when he's a free agent in two years. It's a suggestion Sam Smith made in today's Tribune, and I can't believe he thought of it.


you're assuming he isn't somewhere else with a contract extension by then

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Postby 1908 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:02 am

Derwood wrote:you're assuming he isn't somewhere else with a contract extension by then

The opt-out clause will still be there if he's traded. Another reason why trading the farm for Kobe could be risky. If he's not happy in Chicago after two years, he could leave with the Bulls getting nothing in return.

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Postby Derwood » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:07 am

1908 wrote:
Derwood wrote:you're assuming he isn't somewhere else with a contract extension by then

The opt-out clause will still be there if he's traded. Another reason why trading the farm for Kobe could be risky. If he's not happy in Chicago after two years, he could leave with the Bulls getting nothing in return.


wouldn't you think Paxson would want to negotiate an extension as part of any trade?

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Postby 1908 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:14 am

Derwood wrote:wouldn't you think Paxson would want to negotiate an extension as part of any trade?

Sure. How does that get rid of the opt-out clause? That's in his current contract. It would give Kobe more incentive to stay, but he could still leave after two seasons.

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Postby Derwood » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:16 am

1908 wrote:
Derwood wrote:wouldn't you think Paxson would want to negotiate an extension as part of any trade?

Sure. How does that get rid of the opt-out clause? That's in his current contract. It would give Kobe more incentive to stay, but he could still leave after two seasons.


i would assume that the extension would include erasing that clause

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Postby 1908 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:21 am

Derwood wrote:
1908 wrote:
Derwood wrote:wouldn't you think Paxson would want to negotiate an extension as part of any trade?

Sure. How does that get rid of the opt-out clause? That's in his current contract. It would give Kobe more incentive to stay, but he could still leave after two seasons.

i would assume that the extension would include erasing that clause

Don't see Kobe doing that. He's got four years left on his max contract deal with a trade kicker in it already. If he were traded, I suspect he'd talk possible extension with his new team in two years time and use the opt-out as leverage. But that doesn't mean he won't use it.


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