Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

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Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:18 pm

Well the season wasn't as bad as we probably thought, especially after Week 3. We have gone 6-6 since and were in every game but 1.

One thing that's freaking annoying is the 3-12 record at home over the last 2 seasons (compared to 9-7 on the road). Looks like the Bears are 1 point favorites early on. Will the Bears get a rare home victory or will they improve their draft positioning?
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby rawaction » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:40 pm

I'd really love to be picking in the top 12. But I don't want to have a 10-loss season. I think a win in this game is bigger in the long run than a few spots further up in the draft would be. The Bears have only won fewer than 2 games at home 1 time, and that was with a 14 game (7 home) schedule.

Best case is Bears win. Colts beat Titans. Tampa beats a Carolina team that has nothing to play for (though, this is tough because AZ/Seattle play at same time). Saints beat Atlanta. Rams beat Niners. Rex keeps his former team out of the playoffs with a win. And Oakland beats an already "in" Chiefs team.

Most likely though, the Bears win....and they'll probably pick 16th (Colts, Rams win). And if they lose, they'll pick 12.

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby David » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:42 pm

rawaction wrote:I'd really love to be picking in the top 12. But I don't want to have a 10-loss season. I think a win in this game is bigger in the long run than a few spots further up in the draft would be. The Bears have only won fewer than 2 games at home 1 time, and that was with a 14 game (7 home) schedule.

Best case is Bears win. Colts beat Titans. Tampa beats a Carolina team that has nothing to play for (though, this is tough because AZ/Seattle play at same time). Saints beat Atlanta. Rams beat Niners. Rex keeps his former team out of the playoffs with a win. And Oakland beats an already "in" Chiefs team.

Most likely though, the Bears win....and they'll probably pick 16th (Colts, Rams win). And if they lose, they'll pick 12.


A loss allows an opportunity to draft a better player going forward. We know what this team is and the outcome of this game won't change that either way. What does a win actually accomplish going forward? Feeling better about not crossing an arbitrary line into double digit losses?
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby UMFan83 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:38 am

David wrote:
rawaction wrote:I'd really love to be picking in the top 12. But I don't want to have a 10-loss season. I think a win in this game is bigger in the long run than a few spots further up in the draft would be. The Bears have only won fewer than 2 games at home 1 time, and that was with a 14 game (7 home) schedule.

Best case is Bears win. Colts beat Titans. Tampa beats a Carolina team that has nothing to play for (though, this is tough because AZ/Seattle play at same time). Saints beat Atlanta. Rams beat Niners. Rex keeps his former team out of the playoffs with a win. And Oakland beats an already "in" Chiefs team.

Most likely though, the Bears win....and they'll probably pick 16th (Colts, Rams win). And if they lose, they'll pick 12.


A loss allows an opportunity to draft a better player going forward. We know what this team is and the outcome of this game won't change that either way. What does a win actually accomplish going forward? Feeling better about not crossing an arbitrary line into double digit losses?


Any benefits they get from winning are really not quantifiable, so I'm not sure what Raw is getting at.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby Butterscup » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:54 am

double digit losses looks bad to recruits

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby Old Style » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:57 am

Butterscup wrote:double digit losses looks bad to recruits

Can we pay them more than Ole Miss? I'm not sure.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby Liam Neeson » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:16 pm

Aaron Donald

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby rawaction » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:44 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
David wrote:
rawaction wrote:I'd really love to be picking in the top 12. But I don't want to have a 10-loss season. I think a win in this game is bigger in the long run than a few spots further up in the draft would be. The Bears have only won fewer than 2 games at home 1 time, and that was with a 14 game (7 home) schedule.

Best case is Bears win. Colts beat Titans. Tampa beats a Carolina team that has nothing to play for (though, this is tough because AZ/Seattle play at same time). Saints beat Atlanta. Rams beat Niners. Rex keeps his former team out of the playoffs with a win. And Oakland beats an already "in" Chiefs team.

Most likely though, the Bears win....and they'll probably pick 16th (Colts, Rams win). And if they lose, they'll pick 12.


A loss allows an opportunity to draft a better player going forward. We know what this team is and the outcome of this game won't change that either way. What does a win actually accomplish going forward? Feeling better about not crossing an arbitrary line into double digit losses?


Any benefits they get from winning are really not quantifiable, so I'm not sure what Raw is getting at.


And going from 16th pick to 12th doesn't mean they'll be getting a better player. The Patriots, Packers, etc. have done just fine with late draft picks. I know it can't be quantified, but I think it would be a big building block for a team that has struggled both vs. the division and in Soldier Field the last 2 years to kill 2 birds with 1 stone this Sunday.

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby David » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:46 pm

Just don't buy it. Don't see a win this weekend killing any bird or meaning much of anything at all. And obviously you can find a good player with any pick, but your chances are absolutely undeniably better the earlier you pick.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:31 pm

I'm with raw
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:02 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:I'm with raw


I'm not, it's not 1 draft pick, it's 6+, each round we pick lower. Each round we pick worse
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:04 pm

rawaction wrote:
UMFan83 wrote:
David wrote:
rawaction wrote:I'd really love to be picking in the top 12. But I don't want to have a 10-loss season. I think a win in this game is bigger in the long run than a few spots further up in the draft would be. The Bears have only won fewer than 2 games at home 1 time, and that was with a 14 game (7 home) schedule.

Best case is Bears win. Colts beat Titans. Tampa beats a Carolina team that has nothing to play for (though, this is tough because AZ/Seattle play at same time). Saints beat Atlanta. Rams beat Niners. Rex keeps his former team out of the playoffs with a win. And Oakland beats an already "in" Chiefs team.

Most likely though, the Bears win....and they'll probably pick 16th (Colts, Rams win). And if they lose, they'll pick 12.


A loss allows an opportunity to draft a better player going forward. We know what this team is and the outcome of this game won't change that either way. What does a win actually accomplish going forward? Feeling better about not crossing an arbitrary line into double digit losses?


Any benefits they get from winning are really not quantifiable, so I'm not sure what Raw is getting at.[/

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:07 pm

I'd feel better about this teams future by seeing them win another game than a couple draft slots. This is supposedly a team with a lot of pieces in place and a quality staff that can win next year. I'd like to see them prove it a little more by beating a divisional opponent, winning more games than previously expected, and finishing this season on a high note. Also because draft slot fandom is dumb and ugly and watching your team win is more enjoyable than the opposite.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby David » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:31 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:I'd feel better about this teams future by seeing them win another game than a couple draft slots. This is supposedly a team with a lot of pieces in place and a quality staff that can win next year. I'd like to see them prove it a little more by beating a divisional opponent, winning more games than previously expected, and finishing this season on a high note. Also because draft slot fandom is dumb and ugly and watching your team win is more enjoyable than the opposite.


It's not like you need to see a win to feel that way nor would a win necessarily feel better.

You can see the game and you can see who plays well and doesn't. Of course I want Jay, Langford, Amos, Goldman, McPhee, and anybody else who is relevant to 2016 to all have excellent games. And I want to lose. It can be on 2 Robbie Gould missed field goals, a Josh Bellamy drop in the end zone, and a blown assignment by whoever the safety du jour is.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby Soul » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:29 am

It's a case of heart versus head this weekend. Even though I can't deny the potential benefits of a loss, I'm still going to root for the Bears to win.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:32 am

Soul wrote:It's a case of heart versus head this weekend. Even though I can't deny the potential benefits of a loss, I'm still going to root for the Bears to win.

I don't really think it's heart vs head. The potential benefits to the team of losing are minimal. 4 draft slots will not change a franchise. Ryan Pace is either going to be a good judge of a talent and build a better team or he is not. A couple slots will not make a difference that matters to the end result. This isn't the opportunity to draft Peyton Manning we are talking about.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby UMFan83 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:46 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Soul wrote:It's a case of heart versus head this weekend. Even though I can't deny the potential benefits of a loss, I'm still going to root for the Bears to win.

I don't really think it's heart vs head. The potential benefits to the team of losing are minimal. 4 draft slots will not change a franchise. Ryan Pace is either going to be a good judge of a talent and build a better team or he is not. A couple slots will not make a difference that matters to the end result. This isn't the opportunity to draft Peyton Manning we are talking about.


Yes but the argument is what provides more benefit to the future of the franchise. It's an argument that cannot be won by either side since the benefits of winning cannot be quantified and measured against the benefits of a marginally higher draft pick. I agree that there isn't a huge difference between the 12th pick and 16th pick. If we were 2-13 and Peyton Manning was the projected #1 pick, I'd obviously feel a lot differently.
Last edited by UMFan83 on Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:47 am

Lose, you mighty stallions.

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby Thed Hoyerstein » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:04 am

“So my threshold is: ‘Is this a noodle?’”

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby UMFan83 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:48 am

Thed Hoyerstein wrote:


Is that just speculation from him re: Jeffery? I still don't see why they wouldn't at least franchise him given that they have plenty of cap space and haven't been able to see any game action from White.
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby David » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:22 am

UMFan83 wrote:
Thed Hoyerstein wrote:


Is that just speculation from him re: Jeffery? I still don't see why they wouldn't at least franchise him given that they have plenty of cap space and haven't been able to see any game action from White.


It's less speculation than stating a fact, IMO.

It's true...very unlikely, but true.

In other words, "Here's a dramatic way of alluding to his free agency that'll get me more attention"
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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby Butterscup » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:21 pm

letting jeffery go would be pretty tough for me to accept.

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby rawaction » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:48 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:I'm with raw


I'm not, it's not 1 draft pick, it's 6+, each round we pick lower. Each round we pick worse


Actually, the Bears are going to be tied with multiple teams whether they are 6-10 or 7-9. So, their pick will actually go up in each round because they will lose all tiebreakers and pick last in the 1st. The tied teams all move up (or to the end if first) one pick each subsequent round.

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby abmillis » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:19 am

Also, one pick was the difference between Kyle Fuller and Aaron Donald

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Re: Week 17: Lions (6-9) @ Bears (6-9) Noon, FOX

Postby rawaction » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:10 am

abmillis wrote:Also, one pick was the difference between Kyle Fuller and Aaron Donald


The Bears also could have picked Zach Martin or CJ Mosely over Fuller. Houston having the worst record didn't do them much good in that same draft. The could have had anyone they wanted and picked Clowney. Browns passed on Evans, Beckham, Donald, Barr, and Lewan for Justin Gilbert. It's not where you pick, it's who you pick. The answer to why a team doesn't come away with a better player isn't "they should have lost more", it's "they should have picked better".


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