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Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:45 am
by WrigleyField 22
BigbadB wrote:On a related note, I'm really confused by Spanos. He is currently one of the most hated people in San Diego at the moment. Him and his lawyer. But it's because he won't sit down for discussions on keeping the team in San Diego. And with the way this vote went down, he got royally screwed on moving to LA. If he does move the team, he's just going to be a lowly renter and his team will be a shadow of the Rams in that town. He doesn't have near the money to take on a full partnership with Kroenke, and Kroenke knows it and is going to play him like a fiddle if he decides to latch on to Kroenke's coattail. He's really caught between a rock and a hard place at this point and whatever decision he makes is not what he wanted.

The cost to move the team is $550m. He'll play a season at the Coliseum where the Chargers will be the 4th most popular team playing there. He will always share the market, and that proved that it didn't work before.

Or, he could could take the $550m he would be using to relocate and the added $100m that the NFL is just handing him to build a stadium in San Diego, and he could own his own stadium and have the entire market to himself. And the fans would stop hating him here in San Diego because he'd finally be doing exactly what the fans have wanted him to do from the start. Maybe it's been leverage all along to get the city to build the stadium for him, but San Diego has held firm on not doing it. After watching what just happened in St. Louis, San Diego is smart in not caving to the demands.

Isn't $650M about half of what new stadiums cost? That's more like a renovation budget.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:49 am
by BigbadB
Felix Leiter wrote:Good points, BB. When Al Davis had the Raiders in LA in the 80's, he wanted to develop the Englewood site for a new stadium. He claims the NFL blocked him and he was forced to move back to Oakland. On the San Diego side, Spanos apparently mentioned to Kronke a couple years ago that WalMart owned 60 acres of the Englewood property and was offering it around. Although Kronke married a Walton relative, he didn't know the property might become available. He never got back to Spanos and then later on purchased it. I'm thinking Spanos was ripped.

The Oakland/San Diego deal in Carson was doomed unless one of them was moved out of the same division.

As an old coot(David's words), the #19 baby blue Lance Alworth jersey remains one of the coolest jerseys ever. People called him 'Bambi', David. I hope they somehow wind up staying in San Diego


I don't think the Carson site was ever really a viable option. It's 167 acres of landfill they would be building a stadium over. We have roads here in San Diego that were built over old landfill area, and the roads constantly have to be filled in where it keeps sinking. I can't imagine what it would be like building a stadium on such unstable ground. I guess that's why engineers get paid the big bucks, but it's a very scary proposition, IMO.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:57 am
by SouthSideRyan
WrigleyField 22 wrote:Isn't $650M about half of what new stadiums cost? That's more like a renovation budget.


I'm not sure JerryWorld ever even hit 1.3B

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:07 am
by BigbadB
I read that Arrowhead was renovated for 200m, and I guess it's really nice now.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:23 am
by WrigleyField 22
SouthSideRyan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:Isn't $650M about half of what new stadiums cost? That's more like a renovation budget.


I'm not sure JerryWorld ever even hit 1.3B

I guess not quite, but I think SF, Minn, and NY all did/will.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:26 am
by NonProfitCow
BigbadB wrote:I read that Arrowhead was renovated for 200m, and I guess it's really nice now.

I'm super biased as a Chiefs fan, but it's a really awesome stadium now. It's always been pretty nice, but was feeling pretty dated before the renovations. I don't have a lot of NFL stadiums to compare it to though. Just Ford Field and the Edward Jones Dome.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:35 am
by SouthSideRyan
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:Isn't $650M about half of what new stadiums cost? That's more like a renovation budget.


I'm not sure JerryWorld ever even hit 1.3B

I guess not quite, but I think SF, Minn, and NY all did/will.


Holy [expletive] really?

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:43 am
by jersey cubs fan
SouthSideRyan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:Isn't $650M about half of what new stadiums cost? That's more like a renovation budget.


I'm not sure JerryWorld ever even hit 1.3B

I guess not quite, but I think SF, Minn, and NY all did/will.


Holy [expletive] really?

I think the number on metlife stadium was $1.6B, and it is terrible.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:42 pm
by Ding Dong Johnson
$1.2 billion for Atlanta's Mercedes-Benz Stadium

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:01 pm
by kujay
NonProfitCow wrote:
BigbadB wrote:I read that Arrowhead was renovated for 200m, and I guess it's really nice now.

I'm super biased as a Chiefs fan, but it's a really awesome stadium now. It's always been pretty nice, but was feeling pretty dated before the renovations. I don't have a lot of NFL stadiums to compare it to though. Just Ford Field and the Edward Jones Dome.


It's a great stadium, but it's not like they did a total facelift like the Wrigley bleachers. I agree it was dated, but I'm not sure it's a good comparison to the cost of these other proposed refurbs.

Arrowhead is awesome for a dozen reasons they couldn't really improve with money.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:07 pm
by minnesotacubsfan
BigbadB wrote:
Felix Leiter wrote:Good points, BB. When Al Davis had the Raiders in LA in the 80's, he wanted to develop the Englewood site for a new stadium. He claims the NFL blocked him and he was forced to move back to Oakland. On the San Diego side, Spanos apparently mentioned to Kronke a couple years ago that WalMart owned 60 acres of the Englewood property and was offering it around. Although Kronke married a Walton relative, he didn't know the property might become available. He never got back to Spanos and then later on purchased it. I'm thinking Spanos was ripped.

The Oakland/San Diego deal in Carson was doomed unless one of them was moved out of the same division.

As an old coot(David's words), the #19 baby blue Lance Alworth jersey remains one of the coolest jerseys ever. People called him 'Bambi', David. I hope they somehow wind up staying in San Diego


I don't think the Carson site was ever really a viable option. It's 167 acres of landfill they would be building a stadium over. We have roads here in San Diego that were built over old landfill area, and the roads constantly have to be filled in where it keeps sinking. I can't imagine what it would be like building a stadium on such unstable ground. I guess that's why engineers get paid the big bucks, but it's a very scary proposition, IMO.



Pier construction with grade beams, it's done all the time. Bigger issue will be clean up of the brown field

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:27 pm
by ConstableRabbit
MWV wrote:
mul21 wrote:Having lived there for 13 years now as an "outsider", the biggest problem in my eyes is that it's such an insular place.

mul21 wrote:It's really amazing to me how many people who are from St. Louis end up back there

I lived there 6 years. How many times have you been asked what high school you went to, only to be met with bafflement when you explain that you attended school outside the st. louis metro area?

The high school obsession is real and insane. Complete JV city.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:47 pm
by Derwood
mul21 wrote:Having lived there for 13 years now as an "outsider", the biggest problem in my eyes is that it's such an insular place. They have no interest in change or outside thought and it's really the biggest reason that there's never any progress made toward revitalizing the downtown area. There's a ton of great stuff in the city, especially for families, but all the white folk are so damned afraid to spend any time there that it's impossible to get anything substantive done to change the reality and perception of the city.

It's really amazing to me how many people who are from St. Louis end up back there, even after going out and experiencing the rest of the world and getting great educations elsewhere. It's just a weird phenomenon.


Columbus is exactly the same way. I feel like I'm the only one of my neighbors, friends and coworkers who wasn't born in central Ohio. Everyone has lived here their whole life, their entire extended families are here, and they have no thoughts on leaving. Sure, they may venture as far as Dayton or Athens or Miami (OH) for college, but then they come right back.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:58 pm
by NonProfitCow
Derwood wrote:Columbus is exactly the same way. I feel like I'm the only one of my neighbors, friends and coworkers who wasn't born in central Ohio. Everyone has lived here their whole life, their entire extended families are here, and they have no thoughts on leaving. Sure, they may venture as far as Dayton or Athens or Miami (OH) for college, but then they come right back.

That's how it is pretty much everywhere.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:24 pm
by SouthSideRyan
I was going to say, outside of NYC and LA, is it really that uncommon for people to settle in the area they grew up? I always interpreted the issue with STL being that everyone asked what HS you went to as if it's where they all peaked.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:30 pm
by XZero77
NonProfitCow wrote:
Derwood wrote:Columbus is exactly the same way. I feel like I'm the only one of my neighbors, friends and coworkers who wasn't born in central Ohio. Everyone has lived here their whole life, their entire extended families are here, and they have no thoughts on leaving. Sure, they may venture as far as Dayton or Athens or Miami (OH) for college, but then they come right back.

That's how it is pretty much everywhere.


I don't get how people can be that way, but it is true of most places. Living in the southwest, I have found that to be less the case here than in the Midwest, where people tend to "put down roots" fairly early in life.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:02 pm
by Derwood
I don't really have a value judgment about moving away from home or staying put. I moved every 2 or 3 years growing up (I went to 6 different schools from K-6th grade), which has made adapting to new environments really easy for me. I'm coming up on 8 years in this house, which is by far the longest I've every lived anywhere. Conversely, my sister lived in Pennsylvania for basically her whole life (she was 6 when we moved there), and as such, has no desire to ever leave.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:26 pm
by David
my family and my job mean i'll probably be in the chicago area for most of the rest of my life, but i'd be damn happy to retire to the gulf coast (better beaches) of florida or something

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:39 am
by minnesotacubsfan
NonProfitCow wrote:
Derwood wrote:Columbus is exactly the same way. I feel like I'm the only one of my neighbors, friends and coworkers who wasn't born in central Ohio. Everyone has lived here their whole life, their entire extended families are here, and they have no thoughts on leaving. Sure, they may venture as far as Dayton or Athens or Miami (OH) for college, but then they come right back.

That's how it is pretty much everywhere.



In the Midwest, yes

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:40 am
by Derwood
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
NonProfitCow wrote:
Derwood wrote:Columbus is exactly the same way. I feel like I'm the only one of my neighbors, friends and coworkers who wasn't born in central Ohio. Everyone has lived here their whole life, their entire extended families are here, and they have no thoughts on leaving. Sure, they may venture as far as Dayton or Athens or Miami (OH) for college, but then they come right back.

That's how it is pretty much everywhere.



In the Midwest, yes


In the plains states as well, I'm guessing.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:49 am
by jersey cubs fan
Derwood wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
NonProfitCow wrote:
Derwood wrote:Columbus is exactly the same way. I feel like I'm the only one of my neighbors, friends and coworkers who wasn't born in central Ohio. Everyone has lived here their whole life, their entire extended families are here, and they have no thoughts on leaving. Sure, they may venture as far as Dayton or Athens or Miami (OH) for college, but then they come right back.

That's how it is pretty much everywhere.



In the Midwest, yes


In the plains states as well, I'm guessing.

It's the same thing up and down the northeast corridor. Every community outside the major cities has huge amounts of born and raised and never left.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:58 am
by Derwood
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Derwood wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
NonProfitCow wrote:
Derwood wrote:Columbus is exactly the same way. I feel like I'm the only one of my neighbors, friends and coworkers who wasn't born in central Ohio. Everyone has lived here their whole life, their entire extended families are here, and they have no thoughts on leaving. Sure, they may venture as far as Dayton or Athens or Miami (OH) for college, but then they come right back.

That's how it is pretty much everywhere.



In the Midwest, yes


In the plains states as well, I'm guessing.

It's the same thing up and down the northeast corridor. Every community outside the major cities has huge amounts of born and raised and never left.


Until they retire to Florida

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:12 am
by Sammy's Boombox
There are more Ontario and Ohio license plates in Georgia than Georgia license plates. At least on the Interstates that lead to Florida.

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:57 pm
by minnesotacubsfan
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Derwood wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
NonProfitCow wrote:
Derwood wrote:Columbus is exactly the same way. I feel like I'm the only one of my neighbors, friends and coworkers who wasn't born in central Ohio. Everyone has lived here their whole life, their entire extended families are here, and they have no thoughts on leaving. Sure, they may venture as far as Dayton or Athens or Miami (OH) for college, but then they come right back.

That's how it is pretty much everywhere.



In the Midwest, yes


In the plains states as well, I'm guessing.

It's the same thing up and down the northeast corridor. Every community outside the major cities has huge amounts of born and raised and never left.


[expletive] the South

Seriously tho, Puget Sound and Portland feel like 45% transplants to me

Re: The Rams don't like St Louis

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:02 pm
by jersey cubs fan
minnesotacubsfan wrote:[expletive] the South

Seriously tho, Puget Sound and Portland feel like 45% transplants to me

Uh, yeah. Everybody in the pacific northwest is there because they are running away from something back home.