Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or Sori

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Bruno7481 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:29 pm

FNDomination wrote:Ken Rosenthal is a sad sack of potatoes. I honestly can't trust anything that comes out of his little petulant mouth.


Why?

I'm sure he has talked to someone about it, as much as Heyman has. These guys are never going to be 100% correct and I find it hilarious that people get so worked up about reports that don't end up working out.

Sun-Times saying the same as Rosenthal.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby apete6 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:30 pm

UMFan83 wrote:Who cares if it is a proper fire sale? I'm not particularly worried that the Cubs are gonig to cut spending down to like $80 million, and I'm not particularly sold on Zambrano being an integral piece on the next Cubs contender.

So if they want to sell off Z and Soriano and save $25 million in the process, we probably got better unless Hendry sets his eyes on a couple of veteran lefty relievers.


That's the thing. I'm not completely sold on us being able to spend the money on a pitcher worth a damn. Sure, we could bid the highest on Prince Fielder and CJ Wilson, but what is the incremental improvement of CJ Wilson+whatever we eat on Zambrano over just Zambrano the next 2 years?

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Roast » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:33 pm

Heyman is now also reporting there is no interest in Z amongst the Yankees.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Bruno7481 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:35 pm

Roast wrote:Heyman is now also reporting there is no interest in Z amongst the Yankees.


What does he know anyway?

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:37 pm

While people are debating on whether giving up Zambrano for nothing is a stupid move or not, I find this even more depressing: Winning organizations that have a lot of money (Yankees) don't even want the guy even if the Cubs would all but just give him to them.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:44 pm

PleasewinCubs wrote:While people are debating on whether giving up Zambrano for nothing is a stupid move or not, I find this even more depressing: Winning organizations that have a lot of money (Yankees) don't even want the guy even if the Cubs would all but just give him to them.


The more money the Cubs offer the more they likely want back in return in terms of a prospect or prospects. Zambrano is in that middle ground of not being worth the money he's being paid, but also not worth the level of prospects the Cubs would expect if they pick up a big chunk or most of his salary (especially moving from the NL Central to the AL East).

I find it difficult to believe that you honestly think the Yankees wouldn't take him if the Cubs were essentially offering to pick up a big part of the tab and not wanting much in return.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Bruno7481 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:02 pm

It would be nice if the Cubs could make some deals to get some younger talent in return, but I just don't think they have the pieces to do it. When you factor in performance, age, and salary, 10/5 guys etc, they don't have much to deal with.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Little Slide Rooter » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:08 pm

Bruno7481 wrote:It would be nice if the Cubs could make some deals to get some younger talent in return, but I just don't think they have the pieces to do it. When you factor in performance, age, and salary, 10/5 guys etc, they don't have much to deal with.


If they really want to get quality back in return, they'll need to move Byrd, Marshall, Marmol, or Soto, but if they plan to contend next year, they probably want to hang on to those guys. They should really be shopping Baker and Johnson at this point in addition to the obviouses in Pena and Fukudome. Maybe even James Russell. Teams always want lefty relievers and Russell is solid.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Bruno7481 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:12 pm

I don't see any team giving up anything of value for Baker, Johnson, or Russell.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby BeerHere » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:17 pm

West Side Rooter wrote:
Bruno7481 wrote:It would be nice if the Cubs could make some deals to get some younger talent in return, but I just don't think they have the pieces to do it. When you factor in performance, age, and salary, 10/5 guys etc, they don't have much to deal with.


If they really want to get quality back in return, they'll need to move Byrd, Marshall, Marmol, or Soto, but if they plan to contend next year, they probably want to hang on to those guys. They should really be shopping Baker and Johnson at this point in addition to the obviouses in Pena and Fukudome. Maybe even James Russell. Teams always want lefty relievers and Russell is solid.

Russel's stint in the rotation probably killed his trade value. I agree though, he had been very good since then. I think he's a Cub in 2012.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:49 pm

Nuts&Gum wrote:
PleasewinCubs wrote:While people are debating on whether giving up Zambrano for nothing is a stupid move or not, I find this even more depressing: Winning organizations that have a lot of money (Yankees) don't even want the guy even if the Cubs would all but just give him to them.


The more money the Cubs offer the more they likely want back in return in terms of a prospect or prospects. Zambrano is in that middle ground of not being worth the money he's being paid, but also not worth the level of prospects the Cubs would expect if they pick up a big chunk or most of his salary (especially moving from the NL Central to the AL East).

I find it difficult to believe that you honestly think the Yankees wouldn't take him if the Cubs were essentially offering to pick up a big part of the tab and not wanting much in return.


That's exactly what I believe. I believe the Cubs don't even want any great or good prospects back from the Yanks and are still willing to pay a lot of his salary. I believe the Yanks don't want him because they view him as a declining pitcher and a headache, both of which may or may not be confirmed by the pitching coach that worked with him for years. Whether we would want them to or not, I think the Cubs just want to get rid of him and start purging themselves of the players they feel are becoming stale in Chicago.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:51 pm

I think the Cubs just want to get rid of him and start purging themselves of the players they feel are becoming stale in Chicago.


This would be really dumb.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby KingCubsFan » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:00 pm

Considering Larry Rothschild is their pitching coach, the Yankee's lack of interest may have to do with more than just money.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby BeerHere » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:04 pm

KingCubsFan wrote:Considering Larry Rothschild is their pitching coach, the Yankee's lack of interest may have to do with more than just money.

I think Girardi caught Zambrano in 2000/2001.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby davearm2 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:38 pm

SouthSideRyan wrote:
I think the Cubs just want to get rid of him and start purging themselves of the players they feel are becoming stale in Chicago.


This would be really dumb.

Probably so, but just the same, the term stale pretty much nails it IMO. This core of players has tried, and failed. By now, building around a different core sounds pretty appealing.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby NCCubFan » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:05 pm

BeerHere wrote:I think Girardi caught Zambrano in 2000/2001.
Actually it was 2001 and 2002. Zambrano made his major league debut in 2001 (6 games, 1 start); 2002 was his rookie year.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Ballgame64 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:53 pm

I will first say, it doesn't matter to me who they trade. What I find amusing is Hendry has said he doesn't want to trade anyone who can help the team win in the future. Supposedly "anyone" includes Jeff flippin Baker but not Zambrano. Is it any wonder they are 19 games under .500?

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby dew » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:38 pm

Ballgame64 wrote:I will first say, it doesn't matter to me who they trade. What I find amusing is Hendry has said he doesn't want to trade anyone who can help the team win in the future. Supposedly "anyone" includes Jeff flippin Baker but not Zambrano. Is it any wonder they are 19 games under .500?


Baker can actually really help us next year, especially in a platoon at third if we don't bring Aramis back. I agree that saying what Hendry did and then appearing desperate to dump Z doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Ballgame64 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:16 pm

dew wrote:
Ballgame64 wrote:I will first say, it doesn't matter to me who they trade. What I find amusing is Hendry has said he doesn't want to trade anyone who can help the team win in the future. Supposedly "anyone" includes Jeff flippin Baker but not Zambrano. Is it any wonder they are 19 games under .500?


Baker can actually really help us next year, especially in a platoon at third if we don't bring Aramis back. I agree that saying what Hendry did and then appearing desperate to dump Z doesn't make any sense.

Yep, Baker can help the Cubs finish 5th again. He is a BENCH player, none of them are so valuable that they can't be traded if a team like Boston wants to give up a young player.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby dew » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:23 pm

Ballgame64 wrote:Yep, Baker can help the Cubs finish 5th again. He is a BENCH player, none of them are so valuable that they can't be traded if a team like Boston wants to give up a young player.


You have to weight the value Baker provides in his role vs what young player you can get for him. Just a couple years ago the Cubs got Baker and gave up A-ball reliever Al Albuquerque. Albuquerque has been really good this year, but if Baker's value on the market isn't better than an A-ball pitcher then he's more valuable to us on the team than traded.

Baker has an .867 OPS this year against lefties and a .901 career OPS against lefties. Pair him up with Ryan Flaherty at third and it allows us to let Aramis go so that we can sign, say, Fielder and Wilson. There's a lot of value in that.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby JimSorgi » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:23 pm

Ballgame64 wrote:
dew wrote:
Ballgame64 wrote:I will first say, it doesn't matter to me who they trade. What I find amusing is Hendry has said he doesn't want to trade anyone who can help the team win in the future. Supposedly "anyone" includes Jeff flippin Baker but not Zambrano. Is it any wonder they are 19 games under .500?


Baker can actually really help us next year, especially in a platoon at third if we don't bring Aramis back. I agree that saying what Hendry did and then appearing desperate to dump Z doesn't make any sense.

Yep, Baker can help the Cubs finish 5th again. He is a BENCH player, none of them are so valuable that they can't be traded if a team like Boston wants to give up a young player.

What if that young player is just minor league filler? There's no point in trading him when we will likely get nothing of real value in return.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:17 pm

Ballgame64 wrote:
dew wrote:
Ballgame64 wrote:I will first say, it doesn't matter to me who they trade. What I find amusing is Hendry has said he doesn't want to trade anyone who can help the team win in the future. Supposedly "anyone" includes Jeff flippin Baker but not Zambrano. Is it any wonder they are 19 games under .500?


Baker can actually really help us next year, especially in a platoon at third if we don't bring Aramis back. I agree that saying what Hendry did and then appearing desperate to dump Z doesn't make any sense.

Yep, Baker can help the Cubs finish 5th again. He is a BENCH player, none of them are so valuable that they can't be traded if a team like Boston wants to give up a young player.


Stellar logic. In your sweaty hurry to slam Baker as merely being a "BENCH player" you effectively torpedo your own argument that he can be traded for anyone of significance.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:20 pm

PleasewinCubs wrote:
Nuts&Gum wrote:
PleasewinCubs wrote:While people are debating on whether giving up Zambrano for nothing is a stupid move or not, I find this even more depressing: Winning organizations that have a lot of money (Yankees) don't even want the guy even if the Cubs would all but just give him to them.


The more money the Cubs offer the more they likely want back in return in terms of a prospect or prospects. Zambrano is in that middle ground of not being worth the money he's being paid, but also not worth the level of prospects the Cubs would expect if they pick up a big chunk or most of his salary (especially moving from the NL Central to the AL East).

I find it difficult to believe that you honestly think the Yankees wouldn't take him if the Cubs were essentially offering to pick up a big part of the tab and not wanting much in return.


That's exactly what I believe. I believe the Cubs don't even want any great or good prospects back from the Yanks and are still willing to pay a lot of his salary. I believe the Yanks don't want him because they view him as a declining pitcher and a headache, both of which may or may not be confirmed by the pitching coach that worked with him for years. Whether we would want them to or not, I think the Cubs just want to get rid of him and start purging themselves of the players they feel are becoming stale in Chicago.


I'm sorry, but this is just absurd. Rothschild is an excellent pitching coach, but he'd have to be a [expletive] prophet to talk the Yankees out of trading inconsequential parts for Zambrano AND the Cubs picking up a ton of his contract. Even factoring in a decline he's still young enough and has shown enough talent even throughout various times of this very season for a team to pass on a deal that heavily in their favor. He'd basically have to be a threat to murdering someone in terms of being a "headache" for a team to not take such a sweet deal...which is why it's tremendously unlikely that's not what happened.
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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:40 pm

Then I just don't understand why if Z is such a valuable asset that no team seems to want him despite the Cubs willing to pay a lot of his contract. Even IF the Cubs wanted some good prospect back in return, you'd think they'd have a real easy time doing that if people desired Zambrano so much. The Cubs have been trying to trade Z at various points, and have never been able to do it. That Z is still a Cub, even though they don't really want him to be anymore, proves to me that contending teams just don't want him.

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Re: Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or S

Postby Castro's Spray Chart » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:54 pm

PleasewinCubs wrote:Then I just don't understand why if Z is such a valuable asset that no team seems to want him despite the Cubs willing to pay a lot of his contract. Even IF the Cubs wanted some good prospect back in return, you'd think they'd have a real easy time doing that if people desired Zambrano so much. The Cubs have been trying to trade Z at various points, and have never been able to do it. That Z is still a Cub, even though they don't really want him to be anymore, proves to me that contending teams just don't want him.


It's interesting that the fact we haven't traded him proves to you that teams don't want him. It doesn't prove that to anyone else who uses their brain. We have just been discussing that Z is too valuable to the Cubs to either give his entire contract away for nothing in return, or to pay the whole thing to ensure getting a solid prospect. Don't you think it's somewhat likely the Cubs feel the same way and that's why they haven't pulled the trigger?
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