Re: What would you deal Garza for?

davell
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby davell » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:20 pm

Has anyone noticed the differences in fWAR and bWAR between Garza and Jurrjens? Why the hell is there THIS much of a discrepancy? Garza's fWAR is 5.0, his bWAR is 2.9. Jurrjens fWAR is 1.5, his bWAR is 3.8. Seriously, this makes no sense to me at all.
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby SouthSideRyan » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:24 pm

I know fWAR uses FIP, I don't believe bWAR does
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby David » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:24 pm

davell wrote:Has anyone noticed the differences in fWAR and bWAR between Garza and Jurrjens? Why the hell is there THIS much of a discrepancy? Garza's fWAR is 5.0, his bWAR is 2.9. Jurrjens fWAR is 1.5, his bWAR is 3.8. Seriously, this makes no sense to me at all.


I think fWAR leans more in a predictive direction and bWAR leans more "tell what happened."
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:24 pm

davell wrote:Has anyone noticed the differences in fWAR and bWAR between Garza and Jurrjens? Why the hell is there THIS much of a discrepancy? Garza's fWAR is 5.0, his bWAR is 2.9. Jurrjens fWAR is 1.5, his bWAR is 3.8. Seriously, this makes no sense to me at all.


fWAR and bWAR for pitchers are very, very different.

fWAR is based almost entirely on peripherals, which makes it more predictive.

bWAR is literally just taking how many runs the pitcher allowed in his total innings, vs. how many a replacement pitcher would have allowed in the same innings.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby CUBZ99 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:25 pm

Rob wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:Breaking news:

The deal with the Marlins should be completed before midnight tonight. :clapping:


Source? Or just trolling?


I thought Backtobanks was a decent poster. #-o I really don't see any combination of players that I would want from the Marlins. Maybe they will take Zambrano and Soriano with Garza. :lol:

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby David » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:26 pm

CUBZ99 wrote:
Rob wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:Breaking news:

The deal with the Marlins should be completed before midnight tonight. :clapping:


Source? Or just trolling?


I thought Backtobanks was a decent poster. #-o I really don't see any combination of players that I would want from the Marlins. Maybe they will take Zambrano and Soriano with Garza. :lol:


Before he just had the annoying 3-way trade proposals, but he is trending more and more toward annoying troll every day.
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby El Duderino » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:28 pm

he's firmly in the troll category at this point.
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby CUBZ99 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:56 pm

Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

Tigers have made it known to other teams that they are willing to trade Jacob Turner in a deal for the right pitcher. That's a big piece.


Sounds like the Cubs need to get this done.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby b_wiggy_66 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:04 pm

CUBZ99 wrote:
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

Tigers have made it known to other teams that they are willing to trade Jacob Turner in a deal for the right pitcher. That's a big piece.


Sounds like the Cubs need to get this done.


I would gladly stand corrected about Tigers giving up Turner if they moved him. If Cubs could get him as headliner of a deal for Garza they need to make that move ASAP.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:10 pm

I don't love the Marlins possibility. I wrote about this before I was on the road, and there are some intriguing pieces, as bad as their system is. Yelich fits a corner IF/corner OF role, and if the rumors a couple weeks back about the Cubs looking at C were true, then JT Realmuto makes sense.

That said, there's not much else unless they part with big league talent, and both Realmuto and Yelich are too far away to be strong anchors. I really don't see how a prospect oriented deal happens (unless they say we can have our choice of 3-4 more guys along with those two), and that seems a bit unlikely. Their more intriguing prospect arms are 2011 picks (Hope/Lowell/Fernandez). I guess, if they said we could have Rasmussen, Dominguez, and James, along with Yelich and Realmuto, that's enough solid quality that I would be intrigued.

On the big league side, Nolasco/Volstad don't hold enough value to carry a Realmuto/Yelich package forward for me. Gaby Sanchez doesn't hold enough long range impact for me to care. We had Jose Ceda, and while I still think he could be a good closer, we don't need Jose Ceda back in a trade like this unless it's a throw in. I'd have some interest in Coghlan (at 2nd), but not enough.

A Marlins trade would almost have to be a high package of solid quality for me to like it, but it seems unlikely for them to give up that quantity of solid quality. I'd prefer landing an impact chip (Jacob Turner or Jesus Montero if possible) and taking a smaller deal of guys returning than a deal based more on quantity of quality.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby toonsterwu » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:13 pm

b_wiggy_66 wrote:
CUBZ99 wrote:
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

Tigers have made it known to other teams that they are willing to trade Jacob Turner in a deal for the right pitcher. That's a big piece.


Sounds like the Cubs need to get this done.


I would gladly stand corrected about Tigers giving up Turner if they moved him. If Cubs could get him as headliner of a deal for Garza they need to make that move ASAP.


Turner, one of their lefties (anyone of the key 3 would be fine), and I almost would be fine with a 2 player trade for Garza. Would want a 3rd piece, but at that point, it wouldn't matter to me that much who the 3rd piece was. Ideally, we'd land Castellanos in a deal, but I'm not sure Castellanos gets moved, and I feel like Epstein and Hoyer would prioritize another solid pitching talent.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby b_wiggy_66 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:15 pm

toonsterwu wrote:
b_wiggy_66 wrote:
CUBZ99 wrote:
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

Tigers have made it known to other teams that they are willing to trade Jacob Turner in a deal for the right pitcher. That's a big piece.


Sounds like the Cubs need to get this done.


I would gladly stand corrected about Tigers giving up Turner if they moved him. If Cubs could get him as headliner of a deal for Garza they need to make that move ASAP.


Turner, one of their lefties (anyone of the key 3 would be fine), and I almost would be fine with a 2 player trade for Garza. Would want a 3rd piece, but at that point, it wouldn't matter to me that much who the 3rd piece was. Ideally, we'd land Castellanos in a deal, but I'm not sure Castellanos gets moved, and I feel like Epstein and Hoyer would prioritize another solid pitching talent.


I think Theo and Jed will want at least 2 starting pitching prospects in the deal.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby CUBZ99 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:15 pm

Cubsden is claiming source states that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner, probably Porcello and 2 prospects for Garza, but they may want another propsect back. I would love to get Turner, Porcello and Smyly(sp) or Oliver.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011 ... th-tigers/

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby b_wiggy_66 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:19 pm

CUBZ99 wrote:Cubsden is claiming source states that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner, probably Porcello and 2 prospects for Garza, but they may want another propsect back. I would love to get Turner, Porcello and Smyly(sp) or Oliver.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011 ... th-tigers/


That would be a great haul, but don't see it happening. I bet they would make Cubs choose between Turner and Porcello.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby David » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:21 pm

b_wiggy_66 wrote:
CUBZ99 wrote:Cubsden is claiming source states that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner, probably Porcello and 2 prospects for Garza, but they may want another propsect back. I would love to get Turner, Porcello and Smyly(sp) or Oliver.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011 ... th-tigers/


That would be a great haul, but don't see it happening. I bet they would make Cubs choose between Turner and Porcello.


There wouldn't be a choice to be made there...
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:24 pm

b_wiggy_66 wrote:
CUBZ99 wrote:Cubsden is claiming source states that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner, probably Porcello and 2 prospects for Garza, but they may want another propsect back. I would love to get Turner, Porcello and Smyly(sp) or Oliver.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011 ... th-tigers/


That would be a great haul, but don't see it happening. I bet they would make Cubs choose between Turner and Porcello.


After that, they'll make us choose between Scarlett Johansson and Kathy Bates.
Last edited by Hairyducked Idiot on Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby b_wiggy_66 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:28 pm

KyleJRM wrote:
b_wiggy_66 wrote:
CUBZ99 wrote:Cubsden is claiming source states that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner, probably Porcello and 2 prospects for Garza, but they may want another propsect back. I would love to get Turner, Porcello and Smyly(sp) or Oliver.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011 ... th-tigers/


That would be a great haul, but don't see it happening. I bet they would make Cubs choose between Turner and Porcello.


After that, they'll make between Scarlett Johansson and Kathy Bates.


Hmmmmm....lol Completely agree just saying I don't think both will be an option. So yes, easy choice.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby davell » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:36 pm

I like Porcello personally. But, the more I read on Drew Smyly, the more I want him. Even as a 2nd piece, behind Turner. He was a 2nd rounder. For some reason, people look at him as a 4/5 type. But, he throws 4 pitches, all effectively. FB sits 88-92, touches 95. Throws a cutter that's very effective versus righties, solid change, and a sweeping, slow curve. Yes, he's a flyball pitcher, but gave up 2 home runs last year, playing in hitters parks. He's 22, a lefty, and put up these numbers last year, his first in the minors: High A Ball, 80 innings, 2.58 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 21 BB, 77K. Got moved up to AA and did this: 45 innings, 1.18 ERA, 1.02 WHIP, 15 BB, 53K. I know that what I've read from Tiger fans, they LOVE him and think he's certainly a guy that's going to produce much more than 4/5 type numbers, plus, it's likely he'll be ready by midseason.
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby craig » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:12 pm

No to Porcello. Hasn't improved at all. High HR's, low K's, not a good profile.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby The Logan » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:33 pm

The thing about Rick Porcello is he was rushed extremely quick to the majors and while he's been in the majors for 3 years, he's still only 22 years old, I think there's a whole mess load of room for improvement with Porcello, but I wouldn't ever think of including him as the centerpiece of a deal for Garza
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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby JeffH » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:50 pm

Maybe you've heard of Rick Porcello by his other name - "Brett Tomko".

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby Little Slide Rooter » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:51 pm

craig wrote:No to Porcello. Hasn't improved at all. High HR's, low K's, not a good profile.


If the package is Turner+?+Porcello, I'd definitely be happy to take him, afterall, he is only 23 but he has no business as the centerpiece of the trade.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby Little Slide Rooter » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:54 pm

David wrote:
CUBZ99 wrote:
Rob wrote:
Backtobanks wrote:Breaking news:

The deal with the Marlins should be completed before midnight tonight. :clapping:


Source? Or just trolling?


I thought Backtobanks was a decent poster. #-o I really don't see any combination of players that I would want from the Marlins. Maybe they will take Zambrano and Soriano with Garza. :lol:


Before he just had the annoying 3-way trade proposals, but he is trending more and more toward annoying troll every day.


With some of the trade proposals I often wonder what would be worse, if he was doing it to troll or if he really thinks they make sense, but I don't think he's a troll by any means.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby rawaction » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:13 pm

CUBZ99 wrote:Cubsden is claiming source states that the Tigers would be willing to trade Turner, probably Porcello and 2 prospects for Garza, but they may want another propsect back. I would love to get Turner, Porcello and Smyly(sp) or Oliver.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2011 ... th-tigers/


I think Porcello would be flipped to another team. SD maybe.

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Re: What would you deal Garza for?

Postby davell » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:25 pm

They don't have a lefty in their rotation either, maybe they want Travis Wood? Or maybe, to get Castellanos, they want Vitters or Lake in return? Maybe it's both? How about Garza/Wood/Vitters/ for Turner/Porcello/Castellanos/Smyly/?
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