Garza to Texas for CJ Edwards, Olt, Grimm & Neil Ramirez

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby davell » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:29 pm

Nuts&Gum wrote:
davell wrote:I think Bryant was unnecessary, as far as filling out an IF anyway. As I see Javy as our longterm 3B and Alcantara at 2B. That said, I could see Olt vetting a fulltime shot next year, with Valbuena moving over to 2B and Barney getting dealt.


Well, hey, as long you're being realistic in your expectations.

Obviously prospects don't always work, but I'm a big believer in Javy. AA has done quite a bit this season to put himself squarely into our plans. Looking at Olt as a stopgap 3B and Valbuena as an everyday 2B for a year, year and a half doesn't seem all that unrealistic to me. Neither does trading Barney as he hits arbitration, considering his production.
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:30 pm

Even if you are that big of a believer in Baez, he is not at this point a 3b.

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby davell » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:33 pm

KyleJRM wrote:Even if you are that big of a believer in Baez, he is not at this point a 3b.

I have no idea how long it'd take to convert him, but if it was longer than half a season in the minors, I'd be surprised.
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Stannis » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:34 pm

I dont understand Olt being the wet dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.
Last edited by Stannis on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:34 pm

davell wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:Even if you are that big of a believer in Baez, he is not at this point a 3b.

I have no idea how long it'd take to convert him, but if it was longer than half a season in the minors, I'd be surprised.


What I meant was that it's not even his target destination necessarily. He's still trying to stick at SS, and the regime has said they see him as a 2b as much as a 3b. I don't see how you can pass on other 3b prospects because of a guy for whom 3b may not even be in his top two most likely positions.

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:35 pm

Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:I dont understand Olt being the wt dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.


Opinions change with new information.

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:35 pm

At least one of those guys better be getting [expletive] traded, davell.
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Elrhino » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:36 pm

I'm guessing Perez will be the centerpiece, since the Rangers will have to clear out some spots with Ogondo, Lewis and Yu coming into the rotation in the next few weeks. After that, maybe some of the Hickory arms and Olt as a 3rd piece.

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Re: Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Stannis » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:36 pm

KyleJRM wrote:
Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:I dont understand Olt being the wt dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.


Opinions change with new information.


Well, I bet no one ever accused you of being capricious.
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:37 pm

Garza trade saga is now roughly 3-4 times as long as the Brian Roberts one. I don't care if we trade him to get Tony Campana back; I just want it overwith.

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Re: Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:38 pm

Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:
Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:I dont understand Olt being the wt dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.


Opinions change with new information.


Well, I bet no one ever accused you of being capricious.


Not at first, but sometimes they change their minds.

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby davell » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:38 pm

Nuts&Gum wrote:At least one of those guys better be getting [expletive] traded, davell.

Look, I agree from that standpoint. But I think our owner may be near applying for wellfare and we need the youngsters to work out.(only half kidding)
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Re: Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby rawaction » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:41 pm

Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:
Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:I dont understand Olt being the wt dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.


Opinions change with new information.


Well, I bet no one ever accused you of being capricious.

Seems more like a gemini to me.

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Re: Re: Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Stannis » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:42 pm

KyleJRM wrote:
Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:
Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:I dont understand Olt being the wt dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.


Opinions change with new information.


Well, I bet no one ever accused you of being capricious.


Not at first, but sometimes they change their minds.


Hey everyone give the guy a hand, he's alright.
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby davell » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:44 pm

KyleJRM wrote:
davell wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:Even if you are that big of a believer in Baez, he is not at this point a 3b.

I have no idea how long it'd take to convert him, but if it was longer than half a season in the minors, I'd be surprised.


What I meant was that it's not even his target destination necessarily. He's still trying to stick at SS, and the regime has said they see him as a 2b as much as a 3b. I don't see how you can pass on other 3b prospects because of a guy for whom 3b may not even be in his top two most likely positions.

That comment was made prior to Alcantara putting himself in this position. And no, I'm not saying he's on Javy's level as a prospect, but I am saying if he looks like a legit starter himself, you find a way to get all of them in the lineup. Which would likely mean Javy goes to 3B. Again, this could change if AA is dealt, but I think its looking like both him and Javy will be given shots here before that happens.
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Re: Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Tim » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:02 pm

Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:I dont understand Olt being the wet dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.

Please check my replies from last year before saying everyone.
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Re: Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby craig » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:27 pm

Tim wrote:
Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:I dont understand Olt being the wet dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.

Please check my replies from last year before saying everyone.


Agreed, there were plenty of posters last year who observed that Olt struck out like crazy and was a high-failure-risk prospect.

And it's not like having another year of struggle since shouldn't be allowed to influence ideas. The premise with prospects is that they'll get better with experience. When they don't, it's good reason to drop the arrow on them a whole bunch.

Unfortunately the Cubs have had lots of prospects who were supposed to improve with experience but didn't.

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby The Logan » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:40 pm

I'll admit to really wanting Olt last year. I'd still welcome him into the system, though I'm not as high on him after his half season this year. Last year Olt was considered a centerpiece type prospect, now he's a 2nd/3rd piece. His struggles have been well documented, though, and his issues have been corrected and now he needs to come back and prove his bat is still relevant. I still think he provides significant upside that's worth absorbing into the system, personally. At the very least, I think he'll get back on track enough to be a useful trading chip for the Cubs.
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:45 pm

Is Olt's defense considered really strong, or am I not remembering that correctly?

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Tangled Up in Plaid » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:54 pm

Yes, Olt is a plus 3B.

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:58 pm

Tangled Up in Plaid wrote:Yes, Olt is a plus 3B.


Thanks.

Well, at least he'd have some value.

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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Iceblink » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:59 pm

Treymon wrote:
davell wrote:Well, my guess is nothing goes down tonight or tomorrow, due to Selig not liking interruptions and all. I'll stick to my prediction that if its the Rangers, it'll be Olt, Luke Jackson, and Neil Ramirez.


luke jackson
PROS throws hard, strikes out lots of guys
CONS walks lots of guys, suffers from early 2010s white man tool hair/hat malady


mike olt
PROS looks like a power hitting third baseman, used to hit like a power hitting third baseman
CONS currently hits like [expletive]


neil ramirez
PROS currently striking out everyone in aa
CONS is 24 in aa, is in aa because last year he was sort of a disaster at aaa, first name won out over last name and therefore is white

ON THE WHOLE this would be okay i guess because i really don't think we are considering re-signing garza at all, but it would be nice if there was one prospect here without an "uhhh, this will need to change completely for him to be a real major leaguer" red flag attached.


One of Olt's cons should be that he's about 6 weeks from being 25 and struggling in AAA.

If this is really the return for 'the best trading chip of this deadline' then I'd just as soon re-sign Garza. Jackson is still pretty young (though about to be 22 in A ball), but unless Olt really did have magic eye surgery, he and Ramirez could just as easily be AAAA guys to join the Des Moines shuttle.

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Re: Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby SouthSideRyan » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:01 pm

Tim wrote:
Lo_Pan_Fan wrote:I dont understand Olt being the wet dream of everyone here at this time last year and now being a puddle of puke.

Please check my replies from last year before saying everyone.


Wrong challenge Sulley
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby The Logan » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:18 pm

Also, people had legitimate reasons to really like Olt last year...

a) He hadn't imploded yet.

b) His K% was the only serious red flag in his game, as he was able to hit for modest average, hit lots of homers, draw lots of walks, and play plus defense at a premium defensive position.

c) The only true 3B prospect we had in the system was Josh Vitters, who everyone is pretty much down on in terms of him being a starting third baseman at the major league level long term.

d) The thought that Baez would have to move to third was squashed by analysts and scouts saying his defensive play at SS was above average, and he might eventually move Castro off the position to 2B (as Alcantara still had yet to prove if he was the real deal)

Add in the fact that we now have Kris Bryant and Olt becomes redundant in our system... but I'd rather have him than Vitters. Warts and all.
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Re: Garza to Rangers close?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:20 pm

None of our top prospects are anywhere near close enough to make anyone else redundant. Especially not on the infield, where there's a lot of movement yet to be made in their positions.


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