Offseason Rumors

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The Logan
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Offseason Rumors

Postby The Logan » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:28 pm

Starting this now even though it's not the offseason yet because I didn't want to create a separate thread for this Max Scherzer bit from Rotoworld...

CBS Sports' Danny Knobler is hearing from sources that there is a "very real chance" the Tigers will trade right-hander Max Scherzer over the offseason.
Scherzer is the heavy favorite to win the American League Cy Young Award this year and the Tigers will be looking to make a late postseason run again next year. But the 29-year-old is going to be a free agent after the 2014 season and could command a contract beyond Detroit's means. Trading him this winter rather than this summer would net the Tigers a better package of prospects. Still, it's not close to a certainty that it'll happen at any point.


Obviously if someone trades for Scherzer the whole point would be to extend him. If the Cubs decided to target a big pitcher via trade, which one of Scherzer or Price would be a better fit/smarter option?
"I don't think this team improves by trading Scott Feldman," Samardzija said.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby Tangled Up in Plaid » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:51 pm

I'd much rather have Scherzer, although their careers have been pretty similar up to this point.

Scherzer also has heterochromia, so that weighs in his favor.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:07 pm

I know Price lost 2 MPH off his FB this season and had an injury, but isn't it possible the loss in velo just came with him trying to control the ball better? His walk rate dipped from 2.52/9 to 1.30/9.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby EhDubya » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:48 pm

Honestly, unless Ricketts goes all LA Dodgers and trades for both and starts spending all over the place, I want neither. I don't want to give up our young assets for SPs that would soon cost us big money over long contracts. Everyone thought the Phils with Halladay/Lee/Hamels was the greatest rotation in the world, look how that's worked out.

Sign Tanaka then identify the next Liriano type either thru trade or FA

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby dcvalpo » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:40 pm

EhDubya wrote:Honestly, unless Ricketts goes all LA Dodgers and trades for both and starts spending all over the place, I want neither. I don't want to give up our young assets for SPs that would soon cost us big money over long contracts. Everyone thought the Phils with Halladay/Lee/Hamels was the greatest rotation in the world, look how that's worked out.

Sign Tanaka then identify the next Liriano type either thru trade or FA


Three division championships and a pennant? God forbid.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:42 pm

davell wrote:I know Price lost 2 MPH off his FB this season and had an injury, but isn't it possible the loss in velo just came with him trying to control the ball better? His walk rate dipped from 2.52/9 to 1.30/9.


Is the control the chicken or the egg?
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:00 pm

imb! wrote:
davell wrote:I know Price lost 2 MPH off his FB this season and had an injury, but isn't it possible the loss in velo just came with him trying to control the ball better? His walk rate dipped from 2.52/9 to 1.30/9.


Is the control the chicken or the egg?

Eh, the control was better all year, but it really improved after the injury. 13 walks in 131+ innings. No idea if the velo drop was all season or if it was just post injury.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:05 pm

I don't think dealing for Scherzer or Price is the best route to take, but I'd far prefer Scherzer to Price if you are going to dump a bunch of prospects for a SP like that.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:32 pm

EhDubya wrote:Honestly, unless Ricketts goes all LA Dodgers and trades for both and starts spending all over the place, I want neither. I don't want to give up our young assets for SPs that would soon cost us big money over long contracts.


Yeah, basically my feeling with the way the offensive output from within and via trade(s) might shape up. Just focus on putting together a monster team bat-wise and figure out the pitching via FA.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby soccer10k » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:11 am

Related question: the Dodgers farm system isn't that great, right? Because Olney and Kurkjian were talking on the Baseball Tonight podcast about how the Dodgers might go and get Price and then I heard from the same thing from a friend tonight. I just didn't think their farm system was nearly good enough to get a guy like Price - especially since it's the Rays.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby The Logan » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:31 am

Short of trading them big league guys and eating their contracts, I don't see who they have in their system they can send for what Tampa would ask for Price
"I don't think this team improves by trading Scott Feldman," Samardzija said.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby Tryptamine » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:02 am

The Dodgers have a few really good prospects. Corey Seager is a top 30 type of of guy who will be top 20 on some lists. Joc Pederson is a 50-70 type guy and Zach Lee is a top 100 guy. There's plenty there to work a deal.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:08 am

soccer10k wrote:Related question: the Dodgers farm system isn't that great, right? Because Olney and Kurkjian were talking on the Baseball Tonight podcast about how the Dodgers might go and get Price and then I heard from the same thing from a friend tonight. I just didn't think their farm system was nearly good enough to get a guy like Price - especially since it's the Rays.


They probably have a system ranked around 10th in all of baseball with 5 likely top 100 prospects: Corey Seager is a top 25 prospect, they have three guys who could sneak into top 50 lists depending on your preference (Joc Pederson, Zach Lee and Julio Urias) and Chris Anderson should sneak into some lists around 100.

I don't think they're a good match with the Rays because of what the Rays will demand. Plus they probably should focus on bats, seeing as Juan Uribe is their #5 hitter.

ETA: Oops, forgot Kemp and Ethier (meh) are hurt. I probably need to take back my criticism of their offense.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby mul21 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:30 am

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:I don't think dealing for Scherzer or Price is the best route to take, but I'd far prefer Scherzer to Price if you are going to dump a bunch of prospects for a SP like that.


I have to think the asking price would be less for Scherzer as well, just because it's not dealing with the Rays.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby EhDubya » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:53 am

dcvalpo wrote:
EhDubya wrote:Honestly, unless Ricketts goes all LA Dodgers and trades for both and starts spending all over the place, I want neither. I don't want to give up our young assets for SPs that would soon cost us big money over long contracts. Everyone thought the Phils with Halladay/Lee/Hamels was the greatest rotation in the world, look how that's worked out.

Sign Tanaka then identify the next Liriano type either thru trade or FA


Three division championships and a pennant? God forbid.


You really think that those were the expectations of the fanbase/ownership/management? I sure as hell don't, and that window is now cemented shut.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:54 am

EhDubya wrote:
dcvalpo wrote:
EhDubya wrote:Honestly, unless Ricketts goes all LA Dodgers and trades for both and starts spending all over the place, I want neither. I don't want to give up our young assets for SPs that would soon cost us big money over long contracts. Everyone thought the Phils with Halladay/Lee/Hamels was the greatest rotation in the world, look how that's worked out.

Sign Tanaka then identify the next Liriano type either thru trade or FA


Three division championships and a pennant? God forbid.


You really think that those were the expectations of the fanbase/ownership/management? I sure as hell don't, and that window is now cemented shut.


And will open right back up in a year or two if they continue to willingly spend money.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby EhDubya » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:04 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
EhDubya wrote:
dcvalpo wrote:
EhDubya wrote:Honestly, unless Ricketts goes all LA Dodgers and trades for both and starts spending all over the place, I want neither. I don't want to give up our young assets for SPs that would soon cost us big money over long contracts. Everyone thought the Phils with Halladay/Lee/Hamels was the greatest rotation in the world, look how that's worked out.

Sign Tanaka then identify the next Liriano type either thru trade or FA


Three division championships and a pennant? God forbid.


You really think that those were the expectations of the fanbase/ownership/management? I sure as hell don't, and that window is now cemented shut.


And will open right back up in a year or two if they continue to willingly spend money.


Over the next 2 years they will owe 50mil to Lee, 50mil to Howard, 45mil to Hamels, 35mil to Utley, 26mil to Papelbon and 20mil for 1 year of Halladay. They have been in win-now mode and its not working. My point above was, I'd much rather have our flexibility than theirs, because they don't really have much of an optimistic future from my seat. I'm against 100+mil contracts over 5+ years or whatever for pitchers, its cool if you're not.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:15 am

EhDubya wrote: They have been in win-now mode and its not working.


It sure as hell worked really nicely for a while there.

9 straight winning seasons. They went from an organization with a fan base that did not give a crap about them, to an attendance juggernaut. They made it to the LCS three straight years and the WS two years in a row. It absolutely worked.

Even in a bad season they had 3 million attendance and you can't walk 5 feet in that market without somebody wearing Phillies gear. Granted, it's a little heavy on the middle aged chubby women in love with Chase Utley side, but that was never the case before.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby Backtobanks » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:24 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
EhDubya wrote: They have been in win-now mode and its not working.


It sure as hell worked really nicely for a while there.

9 straight winning seasons. They went from an organization with a fan base that did not give a crap about them, to an attendance juggernaut. They made it to the LCS three straight years and the WS two years in a row. It absolutely worked.

Even in a bad season they had 3 million attendance and you can't walk 5 feet in that market without somebody wearing Phillies gear. Granted, it's a little heavy on the middle aged chubby women in love with Chase Utley side, but that was never the case before.



It failed because they didn't get any 1st draft picks during those 9 years.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby XZero77 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:25 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
EhDubya wrote:
dcvalpo wrote:
EhDubya wrote:Honestly, unless Ricketts goes all LA Dodgers and trades for both and starts spending all over the place, I want neither. I don't want to give up our young assets for SPs that would soon cost us big money over long contracts. Everyone thought the Phils with Halladay/Lee/Hamels was the greatest rotation in the world, look how that's worked out.

Sign Tanaka then identify the next Liriano type either thru trade or FA


Three division championships and a pennant? God forbid.


You really think that those were the expectations of the fanbase/ownership/management? I sure as hell don't, and that window is now cemented shut.


And will open right back up in a year or two if they continue to willingly spend money.


I wouldn't be so sure. Even with Halladay coming off the books, Amaro has concentrated a lot of payroll into a handful of players, many of whom are old, declining, injury prone or some combination thereof. Lee is probably the only one who is movable. And the problem now, even if you're willing to spend, is what are you going to spend it on? The days of being able to overhaul your team through FA are over (or at least on hiatus). And their farm system is nothing special, either.

I think it's going to be 3-4 years before the Phils are a consistent threat again. There's being willing to pay for talent, and then there's spending like an idiot. Amaro has done much of the latter, and he's going to be paying for it for at least 2-3 more years. In fact, if I were Phillies' ownership, I'd fire him.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby XZero77 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:30 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
EhDubya wrote: They have been in win-now mode and its not working.


It sure as hell worked really nicely for a while there.



Clearly it did, but Amaro's fiscal irresponsibility is going to make it difficult to sustain.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:41 am

The Phillies spending undoubtedly "worked". They're also almost certainly screwed for a couple years. It's not terribly applicable to the Cubs though, because the Phillies are screwed because they paid a ton of money to guys who were really not all that good(Howard, Papelbon) or to pitchers who were easily beyond 30 when they got extended(Lee, Halladay). Extending Price or Scherzer is in between Hamels(clearly good) and Lee/Halladay(clearly bad) on the deal spectrum, plus it's one player compared to nearly a half dozen huge dollar deals the Phillies did.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby davell » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:54 am

On what planet was the Cliff Lee deal considered clearly bad? Do you just let 32 year old aces walk away? Not a hard thrower, no signs of showing down at the time of the deal.....Was willing to sign for 5 years. And 3 years in, he's put up 16.5 WAR. No way in hell can I fault THAT signing or the logic behind it.
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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:57 am

Hadn't double checked Lee's performance, he's been the exception to the rule with those types of deals.

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Re: Offseason Rumors

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:25 am

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Hadn't double checked Lee's performance, he's been the exception to the rule with those types of deals.


What rule? 5 year deals for guys over 30?
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