The Pitchers we can trade for....

davell
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The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby davell » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:50 pm

Since it's going to be a main topic of the offseason, who is the best option for us to actually make a deal for.....

Names we've heard include Tyson Ross, Danny Salazar, Carlos Carrasco, Julio Teheran and Sonny Gray has been speculated on a bit.

I could see Tampa making a few guys available, maybe even Archer. Although it'd take a metric ton to get him over them dealing off Karns or someone else like that from their depth.

That said, in Cameron's chat today, he was asked to speculate on who he thought the Red Sox could have as their Opening Day starter and he threw out a rather interesting name that we haven't mentioned as of yet......

Jose [expletive] Fernandez.

That seems like a Marliny type thing they'd do too. Just turned down an extension, they've got Stanton for a while so he can bitch but ultimately he's stuck.....

A package starting with Soler and Javy seems like it'd even appeal to them, with Javy being a Florida raised kid and Soler being Cuban. Obviously, it'd take more. Much more. But if it could come from the minors, or at least not involve our other main major league components, how could we not look into this?
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:56 pm

Not trading Javy and Soler for 1 pitcher. Not any single pitcher in baseball.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Banedon » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:58 pm

I don't want to trade for pitching. I want to buy it.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:14 pm

davell wrote:That said, in Cameron's chat today, he was asked to speculate on who he thought the Red Sox could have as their Opening Day starter and he threw out a rather interesting name that we haven't mentioned as of yet......

Jose [expletive] Fernandez.

That seems like a Marliny type thing they'd do too. Just turned down an extension, they've got Stanton for a while so he can bitch but ultimately he's stuck.....

A package starting with Soler and Javy seems like it'd even appeal to them, with Javy being a Florida raised kid and Soler being Cuban. Obviously, it'd take more. Much more. But if it could come from the minors, or at least not involve our other main major league components, how could we not look into this?


Not trying to be prospect hugger here, but to temper this a bit, Fernandez while really good only has 3 years to FA, has zero chance of signing an extension(Boras), and already had a minor arm injury since returning to the big leagues. Trading Soler, Javy, and more might be what it takes, but it'd be an extremely risky use of the trade assets the team has available.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby davell » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:36 pm

I may be the biggest Javy mark here and I'd rather buy pitching, if given the true option of Price. Because I think Soler is going to be just fine long term.

I get that there's a lot of risk associated with Feenandez and giving up what it'd take would hurt.

But a move like this would be quelled by signing Heyward obviously too. And it's likely we'd feel comfortable in giving big money to a bat over an arm anyway.

I'd love to just sign Price, but I doubt we're going to give 7/210 or whatever it takes to get him myself. And I'm not enamored with the other guys enough to where I think any of them are any better than some of the trade options we've already discussed.(not counting Greinke who I don't see us going after either)

I'd take the risk myself, if for no other reason than the potential upside and the fact we can rebuy some of the currency lost in the Cuban market this winter.

CF Span
RF Heyward
3B Bryant
1B Rizzo
2B Castro
LF Schwarber
SS Russell
C Montero

SP Arrieta, Fernandez, Lester, Hendricks, Hammel, and a buy low on whoever falls thru the FA cracks....

Replenish the system thru IFA somewhat and even if Fernandez didn't quite pan out as hoped, we'd still conceivably have enough to be effective at the deadline.

I think this could be done and keep us under 140. Definitely if we move off Wood, Coghlan, maybe Hammel(adding back cheaper depth)

Anyway, I'd be OK with the inherent risk here if Heyward were to be added. Otherwise, I'll admit I'd much rather buy pitching, add a lesser CF, and do a bit to the pen.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:40 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Not trying to be prospect hugger here, but to temper this a bit, Fernandez while really good only has 3 years to FA,


Only three years to free agency does not register as a legit negative to me. 3 seasons is a long time. Every prospect he's traded for can wash out by then and he could win multiple cy youngs and world series titles. 3 years is forever.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:50 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Not trying to be prospect hugger here, but to temper this a bit, Fernandez while really good only has 3 years to FA,


Only three years to free agency does not register as a legit negative to me. 3 seasons is a long time. Every prospect he's traded for can wash out by then and he could win multiple cy youngs and world series titles. 3 years is forever.


I was trying to be concise, but I didn't word that super clearly. I agree, 3 years itself isn't a big negative, but my guess is most people would guess Fernandez had more years of team control than that(he is still only 23!), which is why I brought it up.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby David » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:53 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Not trying to be prospect hugger here, but to temper this a bit, Fernandez while really good only has 3 years to FA,


Only three years to free agency does not register as a legit negative to me. 3 seasons is a long time. Every prospect he's traded for can wash out by then and he could win multiple cy youngs and world series titles. 3 years is forever.


3 relatively cheap ones. I definitely don't see it as a negative.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby doublebubble » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:59 pm

Davell and I are thinking alike today, but the only guy I want via trade is Archer back. However, that would probably take multiple big pieces. Damn you Hendry! damn you!

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:29 pm

davell wrote:I'd take the risk myself, if for no other reason than the potential upside and the fact we can rebuy some of the currency lost in the Cuban market this winter.

CF Span
RF Heyward
3B Bryant
1B Rizzo
2B Castro
LF Schwarber
SS Russell
C Montero

SP Arrieta, Fernandez, Lester, Hendricks, Hammel, and a buy low on whoever falls thru the FA cracks....

Replenish the system thru IFA somewhat and even if Fernandez didn't quite pan out as hoped, we'd still conceivably have enough to be effective at the deadline.

I think this could be done and keep us under 140. Definitely if we move off Wood, Coghlan, maybe Hammel(adding back cheaper depth)

Anyway, I'd be OK with the inherent risk here if Heyward were to be added. Otherwise, I'll admit I'd much rather buy pitching, add a lesser CF, and do a bit to the pen.


I think you're sacrificing a lot of depth with that alignment. It all fits under 150 million(140 million means doing scary things to #5 SP, the pen, and a bench that needs backup for Schwarber & Span), but you don't have any real flexibility to add quality depth because you don't really have cash or MLB trade assets to spare. It's signing up for a lot of the Herreras and the Schlitters of the world.

Alternatively, if you trade for a good SP(not Fernandez good, but still very good) by using only one of Soler/Baez/Castro instead of two(plus other prospects of significance), it makes a significant difference in the quality of player you're using to fill out the roster. The Cubs should be adding someone who is at least 3rd on their SP hierarchy, but it doesn't *have* to be someone of Price or Fernandez's caliber either.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:42 pm

I mentioned it a week or so ago in another thread, but since we are doing a specific thread for pitchers to trade for I like Odorizzi as a trade target. I would think he could be had dealing from just the system with prospects.

Obviously I don't want him as our main addition but I'd be pretty happy with an offseason of an Odorizzi trade and signing 1 of Leake, Samardzija, Kazmir (assuming the 2nd half blow up wasn't injury related) or Zimmerman on the pitching front.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:02 pm

I want Carrasco. He's owed 19M over the next 3 years, followed by 18.5M in team options until 2020. He doesn't walk people, doesn't give up HRs, strikes out a lot. Biggest issue is 183 IP this year was a career high.

IDK that Archer or Gray are realistic. If Fernandez is available (and you laid out good reasons he could be), then the Cubs 100% need to be in on that. I wouldn't trade both Soler and Javy, but one and a gang of prospects I'd definitely go for.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:10 pm

I wonder if Soler, Torres, Almora, Contreras, whatever pitching prospect they like the most, and Hammel (pay half his contract and maybe they'd see some value in him to eat up innings) would be enough for Fernandez and Ozuna. Then sign Heyward for RF, Ozuna in CF.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby davell » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:23 pm

I can't wait for Stanton's reaction if they trade both those guys. I doubt they'd do it in the same deal though. They appear to be acting as if they'll target some solid FA actually. Not that that would keep them from dealing either guy.

I'd have to think it'd take both Javy and Soler(and more). Surely they'd want quality over quantity. But who knows with them?

I like Odorizzi too, but I figure they'll deal from depth unless they were blown away on him, Archer, or Cobb.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby rawaction » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:51 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:I wonder if Soler, Torres, Almora, Contreras, whatever pitching prospect they like the most, and Hammel (pay half his contract and maybe they'd see some value in him to eat up innings) would be enough for Fernandez and Ozuna. Then sign Heyward for RF, Ozuna in CF.


I was actually going to propose Javy/Soler, Torres, Hendricks, McKinney, and Edwards for Fernandez and Ozuna.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:48 pm

I now want Teheran and Maybin with him, but only because I don't believe Fernandez would be available. That and/or the two guys from the Reds. No thoughts on how any of that actually gets done.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:28 pm

rawaction wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:I wonder if Soler, Torres, Almora, Contreras, whatever pitching prospect they like the most, and Hammel (pay half his contract and maybe they'd see some value in him to eat up innings) would be enough for Fernandez and Ozuna. Then sign Heyward for RF, Ozuna in CF.


I was actually going to propose Javy/Soler, Torres, Hendricks, McKinney, and Edwards for Fernandez and Ozuna.

I'd be perfectly fine with this too and thought about Hendricks in my proposal as well.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby StylesClash » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:20 am

rawaction wrote:Not trading Javy and Soler for 1 pitcher. Not any single pitcher in baseball.


I make that deal for Chris Sale and walk away with a massive smile on my face. Sale is durable, doesn't walk many batters,racks up plenty of strikeouts, is only 26, and is signed for four more years at very reasonable rates.

While possibly getting 30 homers from a middle infielder is mighty tempting to keep, its not as if we haven't been burned by toolsy hitters with a piss poor approach at the plate time and time again. And while I'm a fan of Soler I wouldn't let him stop me from acquiring an ace with no major flaws (in his prime).

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby David » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:24 am

pitchers are only durable in hindsight.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby nilodnayr » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:34 pm

StylesClash wrote:
rawaction wrote:Not trading Javy and Soler for 1 pitcher. Not any single pitcher in baseball.


I make that deal for Chris Sale and walk away with a massive smile on my face. Sale is durable, doesn't walk many batters,racks up plenty of strikeouts, is only 26, and is signed for four more years at very reasonable rates.

While possibly getting 30 homers from a middle infielder is mighty tempting to keep, its not as if we haven't been burned by toolsy hitters with a piss poor approach at the plate time and time again. And while I'm a fan of Soler I wouldn't let him stop me from acquiring an ace with no major flaws (in his prime).


I highly doubt Sale is going anywhere, but what about Quintana? I can't believe he hasn't been mentioned yet.
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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:13 pm

nilodnayr wrote:
StylesClash wrote:
rawaction wrote:Not trading Javy and Soler for 1 pitcher. Not any single pitcher in baseball.


I make that deal for Chris Sale and walk away with a massive smile on my face. Sale is durable, doesn't walk many batters,racks up plenty of strikeouts, is only 26, and is signed for four more years at very reasonable rates.

While possibly getting 30 homers from a middle infielder is mighty tempting to keep, its not as if we haven't been burned by toolsy hitters with a piss poor approach at the plate time and time again. And while I'm a fan of Soler I wouldn't let him stop me from acquiring an ace with no major flaws (in his prime).


I highly doubt Sale is going anywhere, but what about Quintana? I can't believe he hasn't been mentioned yet.


I've been a big fan of trading for Quintana for a couple offseasons now. Seems like Baez and Quintana as the main pieces could work well for both parties, but I also haven't seen any indication that the Sox might trade him.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby KingCubsFan » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:15 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
nilodnayr wrote:
StylesClash wrote:
rawaction wrote:Not trading Javy and Soler for 1 pitcher. Not any single pitcher in baseball.


I make that deal for Chris Sale and walk away with a massive smile on my face. Sale is durable, doesn't walk many batters,racks up plenty of strikeouts, is only 26, and is signed for four more years at very reasonable rates.

While possibly getting 30 homers from a middle infielder is mighty tempting to keep, its not as if we haven't been burned by toolsy hitters with a piss poor approach at the plate time and time again. And while I'm a fan of Soler I wouldn't let him stop me from acquiring an ace with no major flaws (in his prime).


I highly doubt Sale is going anywhere, but what about Quintana? I can't believe he hasn't been mentioned yet.


I've been a big fan of trading for Quintana for a couple offseasons now. Seems like Baez and Quintana as the main pieces could work well for both parties, but I also haven't seen any indication that the Sox might trade him.

With his contract, he'd be a perfect fit. I'd have no problem giving Baez and a top prospect.

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby Backtobanks » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:51 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
nilodnayr wrote:
StylesClash wrote:
rawaction wrote:Not trading Javy and Soler for 1 pitcher. Not any single pitcher in baseball.


I make that deal for Chris Sale and walk away with a massive smile on my face. Sale is durable, doesn't walk many batters,racks up plenty of strikeouts, is only 26, and is signed for four more years at very reasonable rates.

While possibly getting 30 homers from a middle infielder is mighty tempting to keep, its not as if we haven't been burned by toolsy hitters with a piss poor approach at the plate time and time again. And while I'm a fan of Soler I wouldn't let him stop me from acquiring an ace with no major flaws (in his prime).


I highly doubt Sale is going anywhere, but what about Quintana? I can't believe he hasn't been mentioned yet.


I've been a big fan of trading for Quintana for a couple offseasons now. Seems like Baez and Quintana as the main pieces could work well for both parties, but I also haven't seen any indication that the Sox might trade him.


I've suggested going after Quintana several times. I mentioned throwing together a big package to go after Quintana and Eaton (highly unlikely, but worth a shot).

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby treebird » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:09 pm

the pitchers for whom we can trade

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Re: The Pitchers we can trade for....

Postby davell » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:12 pm

The last Cubs/White Sox trade was the Neal Cotts deal in 2006. Prior to that, it was the Garland/Karchner deal in 1998, which followed the Sammy/Bell deal in 1992.

The asking price for us to get one of their elite guys would be higher than it would be for other teams. They can't afford to be responsible for helping put us over the top. Risking fan backlash with less than stellar attendance already is a risk that would assure them asking for a ton from us. I can't think there'd be other options out there that require less of a return than what it'd take from them. And IF the packages are fairly close, I'd still bet huge they'd take something from somewhere else anyway, due to the potential risk of it turning into another Sammy type situation.
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