Jason Heyward to CUBS!!!

Can Heyward handle CF?

Yes
68
72%
YES
2
2%
YEEEEESSSSSS ffs
25
26%
 
Total votes: 95

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TomtheBombadil
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Jason Heyward to CUBS!!!

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:08 am

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/11/06/ ... tY.twitter

The athletic Heyward will also be asked if a full- or part-time move to center filed would be acceptable to him. Heyward moved over to center against the Cubs in the NLDS in October. The Cubs sent out questionnaires to their scouts at the end of the season on many different subjects, and one of the queries asked of those individuals was whether Heyward could play center field in their determination


I'm #notascout but the answer should be yes. Guy is the best defensive OFer this decade, and still one of the handful best defensive OFers in the league. He is also better and 3+ years younger than the guy the Cubs just had out there, a consistently below average CF.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby StylesClash » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:20 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/11/06/levine-cubs-doing-homework-on-alex-gordon-jason-heyward/#.Vj0XNULmEtY.twitter

The athletic Heyward will also be asked if a full- or part-time move to center filed would be acceptable to him. Heyward moved over to center against the Cubs in the NLDS in October. The Cubs sent out questionnaires to their scouts at the end of the season on many different subjects, and one of the queries asked of those individuals was whether Heyward could play center field in their determination


I'm #notascout but the answer should be yes. Guy is the best defensive OFer this decade, and still one of the handful best defensive OFers in the league. He is also better and 3+ years younger than the guy the Cubs just had out there, a consistently below average CF.


I want no part of Heyward because that 200 million should be allocated to the rotation. Lester will be 32 and Arrieta blew by his career single season innings total. Our lineup on the other hand, barring injuries, will likely only improve because of the youth and upside from so many involved.

If Fowler isn't resigned maybe Theo could buy low on Brett Gardner. Gardner's contract isn't awful, he takes plenty of walks, has a quality stolen base conversion rate and hits both lefties and righties well (so no platoon would be needed). Plus his lack of power makes him a real odd option to continue playing everyday in a Corner spot (especially when the Yankees have plenty of holes to fill).

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby XZero77 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:05 am

StylesClash wrote:
I want no part of Heyward because that 200 million should be allocated to the rotation.



If it's an either/or, and it almost certainly is, then this is where I'm at as well.


The 2016 Cubs need a Price/Zimmermann/Cueto far more than they need Heyward.

Sign Price, another SP from the Shark/Lackey/Kazmir tier (or deal for a younger SP) and Fowler/Span and call it an offseason.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Sammy's Boombox » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:16 am

I would rather have money wrapped up in position players and trade for cost-controlled pitching, but I'm not sure how feasible that is. The problem is that I hate allocating resources to pitchers because the break. The good thing is we should be swimming in money so we can afford "bad" contracts. It's a necessary evil with how the roster is constructed - of which I wholeheartedly agree in the construction. I have no idea what I'm trying to say.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby sneakypower » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:29 am

what i've seen of Heyward, he seems at his best tracking laterally, which would work best with reduced CF dimensions and two hulking statues in the corners like we have

there's also this
http://m.mlb.com/video/v31405521

The 2016 Cubs need a Price/Zimmermann/Cueto far more than they need Heyward.

if we add Heyward to our lineup, guys like Maeda and Mike Leake will be winning 15 games
Last edited by sneakypower on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby davell » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:27 am

If they sent out queries at the end of the year on him in CF, then yesterday say they prefer to spend most of their money on pitching.......Id say the answer probably wasn't all that favorable. Or the money they've got available isn't enough for both and they're choosing pitching.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby David » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:36 am

davell wrote:If they sent out queries at the end of the year on him in CF, then yesterday say they prefer to spend most of their money on pitching.......Id say the answer probably wasn't all that favorable. Or the money they've got available isn't enough for both and they're choosing pitching.

Or don't read too much into their public comments on free agency and figure they'll pursue all avenues that would significantly improve the team and then do what they think makes most sense as things play out.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby davell » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:46 am

David wrote:
davell wrote:If they sent out queries at the end of the year on him in CF, then yesterday say they prefer to spend most of their money on pitching.......Id say the answer probably wasn't all that favorable. Or the money they've got available isn't enough for both and they're choosing pitching.

Or don't read too much into their public comments on free agency and figure they'll pursue all avenues that would significantly improve the team and then do what they think makes most sense as things play out.


Seems to me they've been extremely transparent all along. Doesn't mean they can't circle back around or anything, but it seems like he's far from the top priority and things would need to wrong in order to come back to him.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:06 am

Epstein specifically mentioned improving OF defense as well as contact and situational hitting. We know they want pitching, everyone does, and yes they will spend to get pitching. Highly highly doubtful the FO would eliminate a target as good as Heyward this early because of the most generic offseaeon need in the sport.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:17 am

XZero77 wrote:
StylesClash wrote:
I want no part of Heyward because that 200 million should be allocated to the rotation.



If it's an either/or, and it almost certainly is, then this is where I'm at as well.


The 2016 Cubs need a Price/Zimmermann/Cueto far more than they need Heyward.


The Cubs need *more* starting pitchers more than they need *a* really good starting pitcher. Something like Heyward, Leake/Samardzija, and a trade for SP would set them up for success about as well as Price, Span, and a 2nd SP addition(FA or trade).

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby XZero77 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:41 am

sneakypower wrote:
The 2016 Cubs need a Price/Zimmermann/Cueto far more than they need Heyward.

if we add Heyward to our lineup, guys like Maeda and Mike Leake will be winning 15 games


I'm also far from convinced that Heyward won't lose a lot of his defensive value going from RF to CF full time, especially as time goes by. The sample sizes for him there are small. And Jason Heyward without a chunk of his defensive value is still good, but not nearly as compelling a player for the money he's likely to command. He's a solid hitter, but he's not a stellar offensive player.

The bottom line for me here is that we'd be all right going into 2016 with Fowler/Span in CF. If we don't land a good SP this offseason, that would be a significant failure. The lack of quality rotation depth is something we won in spite of in the second half, but was clearly exposed in the playoffs. Lester isn't getting younger and expecting even an approximation of a repeat performance out of Arrieta would be foolish. If the Cubs have championship aspirations, they're going to have to do a lot better than Leake (who I think is a near lock to end up back in SF anyway).

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby davell » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:48 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:Epstein specifically mentioned improving OF defense as well as contact and situational hitting. We know they want pitching, everyone does, and yes they will spend to get pitching. Highly highly doubtful the FO would eliminate a target as good as Heyward this early because of the most generic offseaeon need in the sport.


No one is saying they've eliminated him. Of course he offers value in the areas that Theo wants to address. But when they've also said they prefer most of their resources go to pitching, it's not exactly a wild stab to think Heyward isn't their top option.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:56 am

Considering the source of each quote - Hoyer for pitching, Epstein on positional talent - as well as the consistent OF rumors - I don't buy that.

There's many of ways to upgrade the pitching, particularly since Hoyer also specifies depth. its not yet this cut and dry either/or scenario. Resources includes players and prospects as well as money.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:32 pm

As far as the "Heyward will lose a large part of his value moving from CF to RF," what is it based on? We've seen him play CF and play it well both in Atlanta and St. Louis (and he looked better doing it in St. Louis, but that's an opinion), we know he's been the top rated defensive OF of the decade by almost 30 runs, and we know the Cubs have run out below average defensive CFs for probably a decade+ now - all 3+ years older than him IIRC. They just ran out one of the lesser defensive CFers in baseball this decade - arguably the worst, won with him, and convinced a ton of their fans that he's actually a good CF.

Offensively, if you're low on him he's basically Fowler with better base running and contact skills. If you're into him, he's all that plus a guy who can hit 16+ HRs a year just by getting him back to his normal batted ball profile. If you look at Fowler's year, one of the big things the Cubs had him doing was hitting more fly balls. His fly ball batted distance was down and he didn't hit the ball particularly hard, but he put more into the air, moved into a smaller home park, and things worked out. Same thing, much better all around talent in Heyward.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:35 pm

This is the most boring crusade anyone has ever been on.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:14 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:This is the most boring crusade anyone has ever been on.

At least we're getting a break from Aroldis Chapman.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby David » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:08 pm

Isn't whatever defensive value Heyward loses in cf in terms of runs prevented mitigated by the value he gains by moving his offense to center?
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby davell » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:12 pm

Do we even know if he's WILLING to p!ay CF on a fulltime basis?
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:47 pm

davell wrote:Do we even know if he's WILLING to p!ay CF on a fulltime basis?


Why would he even care?

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby davell » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:55 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:Do we even know if he's WILLING to p!ay CF on a fulltime basis?


Why would he even care?


Really? Its a much more taxing position on the body than RF is and he's a FA and has the ability to dictate what position he'll play.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:09 pm

davell wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:Do we even know if he's WILLING to p!ay CF on a fulltime basis?


Why would he even care?


Really? Its a much more taxing position on the body than RF is and he's a FA and has the ability to dictate what position he'll play.

On the other hand if he can get a couple more bucks by agreeing to cf and he's already getting his one big deal, why not agree?
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:30 pm

davell wrote:Really? Its a much more taxing position on the body than RF is and he's a FA and has the ability to dictate what position he'll play.


All playing CF does in FA is make him more appealing and valuable to teams. Of course he's not going to object, there's no reason to at 26 and in his prime.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby davell » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:47 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
davell wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
davell wrote:Do we even know if he's WILLING to p!ay CF on a fulltime basis?


Why would he even care?


Really? Its a much more taxing position on the body than RF is and he's a FA and has the ability to dictate what position he'll play.

On the other hand if he can get a couple more bucks by agreeing to cf and he's already getting his one big deal, why not agree?


Why would a team give him more money when its an unknown how good he'd even be there regularly? If a team did it, then sure, it COULD sway him. I doubt it happens though.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:58 pm

davell wrote:Why would a team give him more money when its an unknown how good he'd even be there regularly?


It's not SO hard to determine that he can play CF. From there, have a good defensive bench - something the Cubs will need anyway given who might be playing the corners.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Bunts Lick Butts » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:28 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:As far as the "Heyward will lose a large part of his value moving from CF to RF," what is it based on? We've seen him play CF and play it well both in Atlanta and St. Louis (and he looked better doing it in St. Louis, but that's an opinion), we know he's been the top rated defensive OF of the decade by almost 30 runs, and we know the Cubs have run out below average defensive CFs for probably a decade+ now - all 3+ years older than him IIRC. They just ran out one of the lesser defensive CFers in baseball this decade - arguably the worst, won with him, and convinced a ton of their fans that he's actually a good CF.

Offensively, if you're low on him he's basically Fowler with better base running and contact skills. If you're into him, he's all that plus a guy who can hit 16+ HRs a year just by getting him back to his normal batted ball profile. If you look at Fowler's year, one of the big things the Cubs had him doing was hitting more fly balls. His fly ball batted distance was down and he didn't hit the ball particularly hard, but he put more into the air, moved into a smaller home park, and things worked out. Same thing, much better all around talent in Heyward.


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