Jason Heyward to CUBS!!!

Can Heyward handle CF?

Yes
68
72%
YES
2
2%
YEEEEESSSSSS ffs
25
26%
 
Total votes: 95

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shnsajax
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby shnsajax » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:40 pm

Sorry I worded that poorly. David knew what I was saying.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:46 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
shnsajax wrote:The value of money over time doesn't go down.

What? Yes it does. It's called inflation.

I think he understands but phrased it backwards.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:47 pm

shnsajax wrote:Sorry I worded that poorly. David knew what I was saying.

That's only because he's fluent in over six million forms of communication.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:48 pm

BigSlick wrote:Bruce Levine is saying the Cubs are now looking at Carlos Gonzalez

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/12/09/ ... ir-sights/

Has this been reported on anywhere else? Also sorry if this is the wrong spot to post this, I don't see a grab-bag spot for transactions

So...it was CarGo™

The article seems to imply that they'd be pursuing him for a corner instead of CF as he says the main trade piece would be Soler. That would almost certainly leave us with a Heyward-less CF unless Colorado picked up a boatload of cash. I can't say that I like that.

Hopefully they are both exploring backup plans and letting things leak to show Heyward's agent we do have alternatives to keep the price down a bit.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:51 pm

BigSlick wrote:Bruce Levine is saying the Cubs are now looking at Carlos Gonzalez

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/12/09/ ... ir-sights/

Has this been reported on anywhere else? Also sorry if this is the wrong spot to post this, I don't see a grab-bag spot for transactions

Well, we had heard, "CarGo", but there was some confusion as to whether it was Gonzalez or Gomez.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:52 pm

Not a huge fan of Cargo, obviously would mean a Soler trade as well. Also doesn't fill the CF need at all.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:53 pm

Tim wrote:
BigSlick wrote:Bruce Levine is saying the Cubs are now looking at Carlos Gonzalez

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/12/09/ ... ir-sights/

Has this been reported on anywhere else? Also sorry if this is the wrong spot to post this, I don't see a grab-bag spot for transactions

So...it was CarGo™

The article seems to imply that they'd be pursuing him for a corner instead of CF as he says the main trade piece would be Soler. That would almost certainly leave us with a Heyward-less CF unless Colorado picked up a boatload of cash. I can't say that I like that.

Hopefully they are both exploring backup plans and letting things leak to show Heyward's agent we do have alternatives to keep the price down a bit.

It does seem a little far-fetched that the Cubs would acquire CarGo AND Heyward in addition to Lackey and Zobrist.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby BigSlick » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:55 pm

I Imagine Gonzalez is someone you'd grab if you get priced out of Heyward, but it doesn't really solve the CF problems.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:13 pm

I will never understand WAR.

In 2012, CarGo hit .303 with an .881 OPS. 22 homers and 20 steals. His WAR was 1.3...
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby BigSlick » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:14 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:I will never understand WAR.

In 2012, CarGo hit .303 with an .881 OPS. 22 homers and 20 steals. His WAR was 1.3...

Which WAR? I guess it outweighs his defense (and probably weighs it too much) and then adjusts for stadium
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby ConstableRabbit » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:14 pm

BigSlick wrote:I Imagine Gonzalez is someone you'd grab if you get priced out of Heyward, but it doesn't really solve the CF problems.

Any interest in Blackmon as a fallback? Colorado is said to be listening on him as well.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby grassbass » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:21 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:I will never understand WAR.

In 2012, CarGo hit .303 with an .881 OPS. 22 homers and 20 steals. His WAR was 1.3...


Short answer: he put up those numbers in a hitter's paradise and gave back a lot of value defensively.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby sneakypower » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:24 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:I will never understand WAR.

In 2012, CarGo hit .303 with an .881 OPS. 22 homers and 20 steals. His WAR was 1.3...

his fangraphs WAR was 2.1

- the Coors factor: his park-adjusted 119 wRC+ was good for 50th amongst qualified hitters and actually the same as Kendrys Morales' (.273/.320/.467 [.787 OPS]) with the Angels
- pretty big defensive penalty: -7 runs in LF, which is pretty hard to do; i'm not sure that's entirely fair, considering you have to cover a fair amount more ground in the Coors OF
- he missed 1/6 of the season; he played at 2.5 WAR pace

Matt Holliday had an 880 OPS and bad LF defense (-4) that year but doing it in a pitcher's environment valued him at 4.5 fWAR; i'd still argue it's reasonable to view this more as a descriptive appraisal than purely representative of talent level, though
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:52 pm

sneakypower wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:I will never understand WAR.

In 2012, CarGo hit .303 with an .881 OPS. 22 homers and 20 steals. His WAR was 1.3...

his fangraphs WAR was 2.1

- the Coors factor: his park-adjusted 119 wRC+ was good for 50th amongst qualified hitters and actually the same as Kendrys Morales' (.273/.320/.467 [.787 OPS]) with the Angels
- pretty big defensive penalty: -7 runs in LF, which is pretty hard to do; i'm not sure that's entirely fair, considering you have to cover a fair amount more ground in the Coors OF
- he missed 1/6 of the season; he played at 2.5 WAR pace

Matt Holliday had an 880 OPS and bad LF defense (-4) that year but doing it in a pitcher's environment valued him at 4.5 fWAR; i'd still argue it's reasonable to view this more as a descriptive appraisal than purely representative of talent level, though

I keep making the mistake of using ESPN for my stats. Old habits die hard.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:00 pm

David wrote:take this for whatever little it's worth...just thought it was interesting

http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewto ... 0#p1621462


The Cubs wanted Heyward for Samardzija before Infield Heyward got thrown on the table by the A's.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby hawkeyecub » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:58 pm

If it's not Heyward and with the budget seemingly being in a good spot, I sure wish I was reading more on Fowler. I like him on a 3 year deal a lot more than these other options.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby davell » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:00 pm

If Carlos Gomez can be had for prospects, I'd take giving them up and getting him for one year over Fowler for 3.(if Heyward is a miss)
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Flames24Rulz » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:01 pm

hawkeyecub wrote:If it's not Heyward and with the budget seemingly being in a good spot, I sure wish I was reading more on Fowler. I like him on a 3 year deal a lot more than these other options.


Same here. Span's older than Fowler and doesn't have the same power as Fowler. I wouldn't hate the move, but I'd rather have Fowler than Span or the other guys not named Heyward.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:07 pm

Craig Gentry to the Angles, didn't have a real interest in him but he was a potential RH option if we were going the platoon route for CF
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Little Slide Rooter » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:12 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Not a huge fan of Cargo, obviously would mean a Soler trade as well. Also doesn't fill the CF need at all.


If the heart of our lineup features Bryant, Rizzo, CarGo, Schwarber, and Zobrist, I think we could survive with Szczur at the end of it.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Tim » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:16 pm

davell wrote:If Carlos Gomez can be had for prospects, I'd take giving them up and getting him for one year over Fowler for 3.(if Heyward is a miss)

Why would Houston want prospects for Gomez? At their point in the curve, I'd think they'd want major league help.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby davell » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:21 pm

Tim wrote:
davell wrote:If Carlos Gomez can be had for prospects, I'd take giving them up and getting him for one year over Fowler for 3.(if Heyward is a miss)

Why would Houston want prospects for Gomez? At their point in the curve, I'd think they'd want major league help.


Probably, but with a saber friendly FO, a lesser payroll....I'd think there's at least a chance they'd use that savings for something else they may want.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby David » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:38 pm

Olney says Heyward isn't a CFer (dumbass) and thinks the Cubs are just trying to run up the cost for St. Louis.
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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Vinestal » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:03 pm

Jon Morosi
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Sources: #Cubs remaining in close contact with agents for Jason Heyward, who are scheduled to depart from Nashville this evening.

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Re: Jason Heyward - 2016 CF?

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:03 pm

Morosi says we are "staying in close contact" with Heywards agent
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