Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Discussion about the June amateur draft, college baseball, high school baseball, etc.
User avatar
seattlecub
Role Player
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:32 am
Location: bellingham, wa

Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby seattlecub » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:06 pm

in the latest Ask BA, Callis is asked to rank the 2005 draft (the Upton, Bruce, rasmus, ellsbury, tulo, mcutchen, r. zimmerman, braun draft) by team, and he ranks the Cubs last (Donnie Veal only one to the majors). Sigh.

On the other hand, i like seeing this question asked, and was just thinking the other day that i wished BA would make something like this an annual feature, looking back on drafts after 5 and/or 10 years to get a good idea of how successful they really were.

User avatar
KingCubsFan
All-Star
Posts: 3287
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby KingCubsFan » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:53 pm

I think that was Stocksill's last draft, so that ranking isn't too surprising.

BeerHere
All-Star
Posts: 4981
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:42 am

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby BeerHere » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:49 pm

Yes it was a terrible draft for the Cubs but it is worth noting that they picked 20th that year and those players were not available available when the Cubs picked. Pawelek was a really bad pick.

User avatar
Outshined_One
Blam.
Posts: 31943
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:38 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby Outshined_One » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:49 pm

I remember being really excited that the Cubs not only drafted Pawelek, but that he was the first player from the entire draft signed. I believe they got him for somewhere around slot, too.

Guh, what a letdown.

BeerHere
All-Star
Posts: 4981
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:42 am

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby BeerHere » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:50 pm

Ellsbury, Rasmus and Garza were selected after Pawelek in the first round that year. Buckholz, Lowrie and Hochevar(did not sign) were selected in the second.

User avatar
Little Slide Rooter
Formerly West Side Rooter
Posts: 25222
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 am
Location: Baseball Hell

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby Little Slide Rooter » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:42 pm

Yeah, but like with most drafts, there are a bunch of guys I've never heard of drafted before and after our guy.

User avatar
KingCubsFan
All-Star
Posts: 3287
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby KingCubsFan » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:05 am

BeerHere wrote:Ellsbury, Rasmus and Garza were selected after Pawelek in the first round that year. Buckholz, Lowrie and Hochevar(did not sign) were selected in the second.

IIRC, Pawalek was a top 10 talent who fell because of signability. If he had been drafted where he should have been, I wonder who was next on our board.

User avatar
Little Slide Rooter
Formerly West Side Rooter
Posts: 25222
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 am
Location: Baseball Hell

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby Little Slide Rooter » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:09 am

KingCubsFan wrote:
BeerHere wrote:Ellsbury, Rasmus and Garza were selected after Pawelek in the first round that year. Buckholz, Lowrie and Hochevar(did not sign) were selected in the second.

IIRC, Pawalek was a top 10 talent who fell because of signability. If he had been drafted where he should have been, I wonder who was next on our board.


Assuming they had their heart set on a LHP, it could have been Aaron Thompson (22, Marlins) or Brian Bogusevic (24, Astros). Thompsons just 24 now, and made his big league debut with the Pirates this season. Bogusevic is 27 and since been converted to an OF. He has a .299/.361/.515/.877 line in 64 games/109 PA this year. Neither exactly make me go Oh, what could have been.

User avatar
CaliforniaRaisin
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 84788
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:20 am
Location: Pasadena, CA

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:20 am

KingCubsFan wrote:I think that was Stocksill's last draft, so that ranking isn't too surprising.


Correct.

West Side Rooter wrote:
KingCubsFan wrote:
BeerHere wrote:Ellsbury, Rasmus and Garza were selected after Pawelek in the first round that year. Buckholz, Lowrie and Hochevar(did not sign) were selected in the second.

IIRC, Pawalek was a top 10 talent who fell because of signability. If he had been drafted where he should have been, I wonder who was next on our board.


Assuming they had their heart set on a LHP, it could have been Aaron Thompson (22, Marlins) or Brian Bogusevic (24, Astros). Thompsons just 24 now, and made his big league debut with the Pirates this season. Bogusevic is 27 and since been converted to an OF. He has a .299/.361/.515/.877 line in 64 games/109 PA this year. Neither exactly make me go Oh, what could have been.


The player the Cubs were linked to the most before that draft was Hochevar.

User avatar
Little Slide Rooter
Formerly West Side Rooter
Posts: 25222
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 am
Location: Baseball Hell

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby Little Slide Rooter » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:53 am

Wasn't Hochever supposed to have won multiple CY Young awards by now? Great example of how massive hype doesn't always mean big league success.

toonsterwu
All-Star
Posts: 3878
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:10 am

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby toonsterwu » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:43 pm

It's easy to forget how exciting the top two picks were at the time. Pawelek was viewed as a steal, Donnie Veal was viewed as a nice sleeper type, IIRC. My biggest problem with that draft had to do with the subsequent selections. I won't fault Stockstill for Pawelek that much (I think this is more the fault of the cross checkers for not recognizing the type of person he was, but then again, some people do change when they get money/leave HS, so it could be simply that, Pawelek was viewed as a mature HS arm), but I did not like the picks of Billek, Holliman, and a few others (one that I did sort of like at the time was Joe Simokaitis, as I thought he might've become a Todd Walker type 2nd baseman ... alas it never happened).

User avatar
illiniguy
Hall of Fame
Posts: 25132
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:59 am
Location: Kansas City

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby illiniguy » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:27 pm

West Side Rooter wrote:Wasn't Hochever supposed to have won multiple CY Young awards by now? Great example of how massive hype doesn't always mean big league success.

I don't believe so, here in KC many weren't happy he was their choice at number one the next year Fwiw.
Image

User avatar
KingKongvs.Godzilla
All-Star
Posts: 2136
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:21 pm

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby KingKongvs.Godzilla » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:12 pm

toonsterwu wrote:It's easy to forget how exciting the top two picks were at the time. Pawelek was viewed as a steal, Donnie Veal was viewed as a nice sleeper type, IIRC. My biggest problem with that draft had to do with the subsequent selections. I won't fault Stockstill for Pawelek that much (I think this is more the fault of the cross checkers for not recognizing the type of person he was, but then again, some people do change when they get money/leave HS, so it could be simply that, Pawelek was viewed as a mature HS arm), but I did not like the picks of Billek, Holliman, and a few others (one that I did sort of like at the time was Joe Simokaitis, as I thought he might've become a Todd Walker type 2nd baseman ... alas it never happened).


Pawelek also had mechanics formed from the fire of hell itself or sumthin.
Most people think Great God will come from the sky. Take away evrything, and make evrybody feel high. But if you know what life is worth, you would look for yours on eart. And now you see the light, you stand up for right - Bob Marley

Beane/Randolph 2012

User avatar
Little Slide Rooter
Formerly West Side Rooter
Posts: 25222
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:41 am
Location: Baseball Hell

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby Little Slide Rooter » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:04 pm

If we want to go to the woulda-coulda draft stuff, one thing I was unaware of is that in 2002, with our 2nd round, 56th overall pick, we selected 1B Brian Dopirek. With the 57th pick, in that same draft, the Boston Red Sox selected LHP John Lester. I know how much of a crapshoot the draft is, but it still makes one want to bang ones head.

tspain
Role Player
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:33 pm
Location: Plymouth, IL

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby tspain » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:37 pm

Interesting to go and read what I wrote down about the 2005 draft. BA expected the Cubs to take Pawelek from high school, works low 90's and touches 95. Good curve and change and splitter a work in progress.

While MLB had the Cubs taking Georgia Tech ss Tyler Greene and putting him with his old teammate Eric Patterson back together in a DP combo once again.

User avatar
Coach C
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 8736
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: Kansas
Contact:

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby Coach C » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:26 pm

illiniguy wrote:
West Side Rooter wrote:Wasn't Hochever supposed to have won multiple CY Young awards by now? Great example of how massive hype doesn't always mean big league success.

I don't believe so, here in KC many weren't happy he was their choice at number one the next year Fwiw.


You are correct with this assessment. Many of the Royals fans think that he's a sissy. It's like, when he has nobody on base, he's pretty good. But when he gets a runner on base, well, his mental mind just changes from a world beater to a scared (expletive) guy who's afraid to make a mistake.

He's definitely not a #1 starter. More like a back end rotation guy, but that's just my opinion.

User avatar
pitchcs
All-Star
Posts: 3838
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:22 pm
Location: A block from Wrigley
Contact:

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby pitchcs » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:29 pm

Outshined_One wrote:I remember being really excited that the Cubs not only drafted Pawelek, but that he was the first player from the entire draft signed. I believe they got him for somewhere around slot, too.

Guh, what a letdown.


Lesson....don't use a 1st round draft pick on someone from Utah.
Cause my life is dope and I do dope [expletive].

[The sound of fastballs] was one of those things that told me my pitches were fast....because I've never heard pitches as loud as mine.

User avatar
SouthSideRyan
is ELL
Posts: 47568
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:08 am
Location: Chicago Loop

Re: Callis looks back at 2005 draft

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:05 pm

Coach C wrote:
illiniguy wrote:
West Side Rooter wrote:Wasn't Hochever supposed to have won multiple CY Young awards by now? Great example of how massive hype doesn't always mean big league success.

I don't believe so, here in KC many weren't happy he was their choice at number one the next year Fwiw.


You are correct with this assessment. Many of the Royals fans think that he's a sissy. It's like, when he has nobody on base, he's pretty good. But when he gets a runner on base, well, his mental mind just changes from a world beater to a scared (expletive) guy who's afraid to make a mistake.

He's definitely not a #1 starter. More like a back end rotation guy, but that's just my opinion.


Hochevar's 2012 numbers against:

Bases Empty: .278/.347/.460
Runners on: .296/.352/.432
RISP: .298/.351/.438

Though his career numbers tell a different story.
Exile on Waveland wrote: IU smells like poop.


Return to “Amateur Baseball”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest