Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Discussion about the June amateur draft, college baseball, high school baseball, etc.

Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Poll ended at Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:02 am

Jonathan Gray
12
14%
Kris Bryant
20
23%
Mark Appel
53
62%
Other
1
1%
 
Total votes: 86

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby davell » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:58 pm

I really think we'll end up taking Bryant. No matter who is on the board. Gray's positive test can't help him with our FO valuing character so much. And I just can't completely get it out of my head that if they really liked Appel, they could have had him last year.
Additional rule: you have to have one or the other.The only exception is you have an amazing board name. davell, I'm looking at you; put up a [expletive] avatar or something if your name only sounds like somebody tried say Dave as they lapsed into a coma.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby jumbo » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:00 am

I opened the thread, chose Appel due to the near universal acknowledgement by experts that he's the clearest top pick, then wanted to change my pick to Bryant and then Gray. It's hard to see past the potential in Gray. Pitching is risky, but neither of these guys will need more than a season and a half in the minors, so that risk is somewhat diminished. Both are ace types, but I like Gray's Verlander comparison, even if it's not fair. Hard to pick. Can't wait to see how the rest of the draft shakes out.

Do you folks believe that we'll focus on pitching as heavily as last season?

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby craig » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:45 am

Tim wrote:Craig, Why wouldn't Gray pitch this summer when the signing date has been moved up so far? Appel would have all winter to sign, so I can see the argument that he wouldn't see the mound. Gray doesn't have that luxury. Are you saying the Cubs would hold him back since he's pitched enough this year already?


Yes. I think the Cubs would figure that he's thrown so many pitches this spring that they won't want him throwing much more. Or if it does, it will probably not exceed one or two dozen innings, and if so only some of those in full-season. If the over/under was 20 innings in full-season, I'd definitely take the under.

AFter going hard for four months, he'll get a month off. He'll sign in July, after which rest they'll want to be careful about stretching his arm out. It takes a week or so to move and go through all of the orientation-to-the-organization activities, so probably mid-July before he'd likely be tossing from a Mesa mound. Two more weeks of "spring-training" before rookie league. So August is basically all he'd have, and that probably building up from 30-30-45-45-60 pitch counts. Several of those probably in Mesa/Boise. So if Daytona, probably only be 3 or 4 starts max, on reduced pitch counts. Good chance they won't think that's worth it, and will just shut him down for the summer, and work with him in fall instrux away from all the media attention.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby Tim » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:49 am

They kept Johnson on a tight leash last year, but he was coming off injury. It would be interesting to see how they'd handle Gray (or Appel if he'd sign in July).
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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby craig » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:49 am

jumbo wrote:.Do you folks believe that we'll focus on pitching as heavily as last season?


First two picks, no, BPA, and preference to player if BPA permits. I'll be surprised if picks 1 and 2 are both pitchers.

But round 3-20, I expect huge focus on pitchers and catchers.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby GammonsPocketTweets » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:13 am

davell wrote:I really think we'll end up taking Bryant. No matter who is on the board. Gray's positive test can't help him with our FO valuing character so much. And I just can't completely get it out of my head that if they really liked Appel, they could have had him last year.



Huh?
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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby Fro » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:17 am

Appel seems like the safest pick to me and we need MLB-ready pitching. Would be happy with either Appel or Gray though.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:21 am

GammonsPocketTweets wrote:
davell wrote:I really think we'll end up taking Bryant. No matter who is on the board. Gray's positive test can't help him with our FO valuing character so much. And I just can't completely get it out of my head that if they really liked Appel, they could have had him last year.

Huh?


I kind of see what he's saying. By most accounts a major reason they took Almora was for his attitude/character. They want a bit of rah rah hard working types. They could view a guy shooting up the rankings with at least a little help from foreign substances as not only a risk for future suspensions and a career that doesn't wind up as well as you'd think if forced to work clean, but also just a character risk in general.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby GammonsPocketTweets » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:28 am

This is the same FO that in Boston looked the other way on Gagne when the proof was right there, plus a bunch of other suspects during their tenure there. I really don't think they care all that much.
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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby craig » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:41 am

Tim wrote:They kept Johnson on a tight leash last year, but he was coming off injury. It would be interesting to see how they'd handle Gray (or Appel if he'd sign in July).


Agree. Johnson, everything was different. He signed really fast, I think he signed within a week or so. So he could have been pitching by July 1st if they'd wanted him too. Plus he'd not pitched many innings due to his injury, so his arm wasn't carrying the pitch counts that Gray and Appel have. But with his health questions of course they were especially careful.

I doubt the #2 pick, especially assuming it's Boras (Appel and Bryant are both Boras boys, right?) is going to settle very quickly. So I doubt the Cubs will be controlling them by June 20 as was true for Johnson.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby craig » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:48 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:
GammonsPocketTweets wrote:
davell wrote:I really think we'll end up taking Bryant. No matter who is on the board. Gray's positive test can't help him with our FO valuing character so much. And I just can't completely get it out of my head that if they really liked Appel, they could have had him last year.

Huh?


I kind of see what he's saying. By most accounts a major reason they took Almora was for his attitude/character. They want a bit of rah rah hard working types. They could view a guy shooting up the rankings with at least a little help from foreign substances as not only a risk for future suspensions and a career that doesn't wind up as well as you'd think if forced to work clean, but also just a character risk in general.


I get the thinking. I also get that Theo didn't go out of his way to avoid or stop users in Boston. By some accounts Gray is a "warrior" who's really into baseball and winning, whereas Appel is a bit more cool. It may be that Gray's attitude/character might be as or more desirable, more focused on baseball and winning. So it's possible that Cubs might actually like Gray's attitude as well or better. Or not. If they take him, I'm sure we'll be told how much they like his stuff, how much they like his work habits and his baseball attitude, and that the meds didn't matter. Assuming they don't (I don't think they'll take him), we'll never be told why.

My guess is that the meds haven't really reduced his baseball potential by much. If they take somebody else, it's because they really like the other guy.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:57 am

GammonsPocketTweets wrote:This is the same FO that in Boston looked the other way on Gagne when the proof was right there, plus a bunch of other suspects during their tenure there. I really don't think they care all that much.


They also seem intent on not doing things the way they did them in Boston.

Also, with proven commodities such as veteran major leaguers with track records they can rely on, they will evaluate character concerns differently than for amateurs that still have to develop into professionals.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby Vinestal » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:55 am

I'm surprised so many people want Bryant over Gray. I think power is one of the hardest things to project for a prospect. A fastball is a fastball it doesn't change as the competition changes. Seems like way more power hitting prospects turn out bust than power pitchers but maybe I'm wrong. I don't think Bryant has enough of a hit tool to make it to the majors and he won't likely stick at 3rd. I'd be disappointed if we wind up drafting him. My preference would be Gray, Appel, Bryant.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:02 pm

Vinestal wrote:I'm surprised so many people want Bryant over Gray. I think power is one of the hardest things to project for a prospect. A fastball is a fastball it doesn't change as the competition changes. Seems like way more power hitting prospects turn out bust than power pitchers but maybe I'm wrong. I don't think Bryant has enough of a hit tool to make it to the majors and he won't likely stick at 3rd. I'd be disappointed if we wind up drafting him. My preference would be Gray, Appel, Bryant.


I'm sure the injury risk of a pitcher plays a prominent role in preferring Bryant.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:05 pm

Vinestal wrote:I'm surprised so many people want Bryant over Gray. I think power is one of the hardest things to project for a prospect. A fastball is a fastball it doesn't change as the competition changes. Seems like way more power hitting prospects turn out bust than power pitchers but maybe I'm wrong. I don't think Bryant has enough of a hit tool to make it to the majors and he won't likely stick at 3rd. I'd be disappointed if we wind up drafting him. My preference would be Gray, Appel, Bryant.


I'm surprised by your theory about power pitchers not busting.
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby Vinestal » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:21 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
Vinestal wrote:I'm surprised so many people want Bryant over Gray. I think power is one of the hardest things to project for a prospect. A fastball is a fastball it doesn't change as the competition changes. Seems like way more power hitting prospects turn out bust than power pitchers but maybe I'm wrong. I don't think Bryant has enough of a hit tool to make it to the majors and he won't likely stick at 3rd. I'd be disappointed if we wind up drafting him. My preference would be Gray, Appel, Bryant.


I'm surprised by your theory about power pitchers not busting.

I guess that's been my poor perception. Seems the popular opinion that college bats are more likely to make it to the majors than college pitching. Id still rather have Gray or Appel over a weak hitting power college bat that will likely end up on a corner in the outfield.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:35 pm

My order of preference is kind of weird:

Appel
Bryant
Moran
Gray

Moran above Gray because I assume if we pick Moran, then the FO sees something that the consensus doesn't, not because I think he's actually better than Gray.

I really, really want to take a position player because TINSTAAP, but I just can't justify it with the position players available.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:38 pm

Vinestal wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
Vinestal wrote:I'm surprised so many people want Bryant over Gray. I think power is one of the hardest things to project for a prospect. A fastball is a fastball it doesn't change as the competition changes. Seems like way more power hitting prospects turn out bust than power pitchers but maybe I'm wrong. I don't think Bryant has enough of a hit tool to make it to the majors and he won't likely stick at 3rd. I'd be disappointed if we wind up drafting him. My preference would be Gray, Appel, Bryant.


I'm surprised by your theory about power pitchers not busting.

I guess that's been my poor perception. Seems the popular opinion that college bats are more likely to make it to the majors than college pitching. Id still rather have Gray or Appel over a weak hitting power college bat that will likely end up on a corner in the outfield.


Weak hitting power bat?
Tim wrote:"Hawthorne Effect". Basically, people improve their behavior if they know they're being watched. I'm a competitive cur, so having friends that are also doing it drives me to want to "win" daily/weekly challenges and such.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby Vinestal » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:38 pm

KyleJRM wrote:My order of preference is kind of weird:

Appel
Bryant
Moran
Gray

Moran above Gray because I assume if we pick Moran, then the FO sees something that the consensus doesn't, not because I think he's actually better than Gray.

I really, really want to take a position player because TINSTAAP, but I just can't justify it with the position players available.


I just don't see much potential in the position players at the top of this draft. Id rather have Appel or Gray over Moran or Bryant.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby Tangled Up in Plaid » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:43 pm

Manned up and voted Bryant.

Still really hoping Astros take Stewart or Frazier so the brass can pick the guy they like best.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby Tangled Up in Plaid » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:45 pm

Vinestal wrote:
KyleJRM wrote:My order of preference is kind of weird:

Appel
Bryant
Moran
Gray

Moran above Gray because I assume if we pick Moran, then the FO sees something that the consensus doesn't, not because I think he's actually better than Gray.

I really, really want to take a position player because TINSTAAP, but I just can't justify it with the position players available.


I just don't see much potential in the position players at the top of this draft. Id rather have Appel or Gray over Moran or Bryant.


You don't see potential in a hitter with potential 80 power, an average hit tool, and good plate discipline? Not even mentioning if he's able to stick at 3rd.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby RammyFanny » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:41 pm

Brain and heart tell me Appel. If hes gone, brain tells me Gray, heart tells me pairing up Bryant with the Daytona boys would be so fun.
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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby GammonsPocketTweets » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:07 pm

Marlin on PSD has ruled out the Cubs taking Gray.
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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby wekim81 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:40 pm

GammonsPocketTweets wrote:Marlin on PSD has ruled out the Cubs taking Gray.

and he's usually spot on. Very interesting.

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Re: Who do you want the Cubs to select with the #2 pick?

Postby KingCubsFan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:52 pm

Appel would be my top choice, as he's the safest choice. After that, I'd go with Bryant, given how rare of a commodity power is these days. If our FO was confident Bryant can stick at 3B, I'd probably take him over Appel. Not as big of a fan of Gray, as I never really trust those guys who fly up the rankings during the season based mostly on an increase in velocity. Gray seems like a worse version of Gerrit Cole.


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