Western Medicine

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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Banedon » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:44 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:I never said I wouldn't entertain the idea. I said I am not yet convinced.

Here is what I know for a fact: the vast majority of ADHD cases are misdiagnosed. I'm not shooting down the possibility that there might be a few legit cases mixed in there. But, like I said before, nobody actually gets tested for brain deformities or chemical imbalances.

If you're going to tell me your kids have a brain deformity, you better be basing it on SOMETHING. Otherwise, it sounds like you're just trying to justify giving them speed.


Ok look....can you stop saying things like they're facts when they're not? Cuz that's really the biggest problem you're having in all these threads.

In 2010, there was 4.5 million kids under 18 diagnosed with ADHD. This article says around a million may be misdiagnosed. So your "vast majority" statement is nonsense. The "few legit" cases are still in the millions....not a few.

http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2010/nearl ... with-adhd/

Okay, your analysis of that article is what is nonsense.

The article confirms that a million of those kids were misdiagnosed. Cool. What it does not do is confirm that those other 3.5 million kids have an actual brain deformity or chemical imbalance. So, they could very easily just be strung out on McDonald's, video games, and cell phones, like I said.


You're making horsefeathers up. You have no evidence for what you're stating.

Prove your "vast majority" statement, please.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:49 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Because medicine is far more effective, both quicker and for more people. Nutrition is something that is a long term, tailored lifestyle change, and I'd rather that remain the focus of nutritionists as opposed to general practitioners or internal medicine specialists and the like. Plus it's not like changing a lifestyle or your nutrition means you can just wave goodbye to seeing doctors. I mean, nobody is dismissing the profit aspect of all of this, but your conclusion seems based out of thinking this mystery "acne antibiotic" somehow gave you epilepsy and then you didn't want to bother trying to manage the condition with any kind of medication. You leaped from one extreme to another.

Quite the opposite in fact, my friend is a chiropractor, and we have some good discussions about proactive health and the use of meds, and he tells me he recommends that his patients come at least two times a week. So while nutrition is a big part of his medical beliefs and training and medication is non-existent, he wants to see you every week, TWICE. I don't think most people are interested in making a commitment like that. D.O. might be the middle ground between non western care like chiropractic and fully western medicine like an M.D., but they are largely going to look a lot more western than non western medicine.

Western medicine doesn't work for some people, whether it's just preference or results based, but it works really well for many, so you (Cubbie Swagger) can't paint it with such broad brush stroke. And you are probably very lucky you switched extremes with such little guidance.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:58 pm

Banedon wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Ok look....can you stop saying things like they're facts when they're not? Cuz that's really the biggest problem you're having in all these threads.

In 2010, there was 4.5 million kids under 18 diagnosed with ADHD. This article says around a million may be misdiagnosed. So your "vast majority" statement is nonsense. The "few legit" cases are still in the millions....not a few.

http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2010/nearl ... with-adhd/

Okay, your analysis of that article is what is nonsense.

The article confirms that a million of those kids were misdiagnosed. Cool. What it does not do is confirm that those other 3.5 million kids have an actual brain deformity or chemical imbalance. So, they could very easily just be strung out on McDonald's, video games, and cell phones, like I said.


You're making [expletive] up. You have no evidence for what you're stating.

Prove your "vast majority" statement, please.

Wait a second... I'M the one with no evidence? It's the people claiming ADHD is a brain deformity that have no evidence. I don't need evidence to disprove something that isn't real.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Banedon » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:01 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:Okay, your analysis of that article is what is nonsense.

The article confirms that a million of those kids were misdiagnosed. Cool. What it does not do is confirm that those other 3.5 million kids have an actual brain deformity or chemical imbalance. So, they could very easily just be strung out on McDonald's, video games, and cell phones, like I said.


You're making [expletive] up. You have no evidence for what you're stating.

Prove your "vast majority" statement, please.

Wait a second... I'M the one with no evidence? It's the people claiming ADHD is a brain deformity that have no evidence. I don't need evidence to disprove something that isn't real.


Haha, ok. I'm definitely done with you. I'll leave you to your tin foil shenanigans.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:04 pm

deformity/disorder/imbalance, whatever you want to call it. it's the American Psychiatric Association who make that call, but what would they know? they're just learned doctors
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:07 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:deformity/disorder/imbalance, whatever you want to call it. it's the American Psychiatric Association who make that call, but what would they know? they're just learned doctors

It's a little bit like he wants to see a geometric proof for everything, otherwise it's just as bogus as his own anecdotal experiences.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:09 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:deformity/disorder/imbalance, whatever you want to call it. it's the American Psychiatric Association who make that call, but what would they know? they're just learned doctors

It's a little bit like he wants to see a geometric proof for everything, otherwise it's just as bogus as his own anecdotal experiences.

or...
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:16 pm

The thing I'm hung up on is how the acne medicine thing makes no sense. He's in the hospital for days, yet nobody can figure out he's taking it, or they ignore it? They guy has been diagnosed with mysterious epilepsy, yet while being in the hospital for days nobody thinks that this acne medication might be causing any issues, or asks/tells him to stop taking a cosmetic medication to make sure it's not contributing or will conflict with his new medication? And his extreme diet and lifestyle never comes up, or is also ignored? And also in the follow-up visit? Get the horsefeathers outta here.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:16 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Accutane is one of them, sure, but if you weren't on any of the ones on that level I seriously doubt an "acne antibiotic" actually "depleted your immune system." Did you ever get any confirmation via tests that this was the case? Or are you simply going with the confirmation bias that because you stopped taking it in addition to some pretty drastic lifestyle changes, then your hippie friends must have been right and an acne antibiotic was inexplicably sucking the life from your immune system? What seems far more likely is that eating junk food daily and then countering that with extreme amounts of working out is what was playing havoc with your system and effectively caused it to snap. How do you know your doctor didn't follow up on these side effects if they're not even side effects that the drug could possibly cause? Is this a drug that has ever been known to cause seizures or epilepsy?

I am not saying it was the antibiotic on it's own. I thought I was pretty clear that my diet and extreme workout routine were just as much to blame. The fact that I would have seizures after exerting myself physically was surely not a coincidence. My confirmation bias consists of this: I got better when I improved my diet and quit the antibiotic. I'm not saying I have it all figured out. It was some combination of those 2 things. There is no test that I'm aware of that can determine what toll a past medication took on me. I think there is a misconception that doctors have all this crazy technology and they can just figure stuff out magically. Really, it's more like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXzJR7K0wK0

This is the drug I was on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minocycline Yes, it has been known to cause auto-immune issues, among other complications.

Sammy Sofa wrote:You made it very clearly sound like the hospital staff were just sending you on your way with a lifetime dependence on medicine and that this visit was something you decided to do. And why is trying different medications something you automatically pushed back on? You try different medicines to find out which one or ones work best and most effectively and help you treat your condition. You're making it sound like you just flatly refused accepted that as an option...why?

The hospital staff told me that I would most likely need to be on medication for the rest of my life, and they briefed me on living with epilepsy as far as safety, like I said. The follow-up appointment was recommended when I was first discharged, and then yes, I decided to take them up on their offer, since I was still having issues. I'm not sure why that is unclear. I called and said, "hey, yeah, let's do that".

Trying medications in and of itself wasn't the issue. The issue is that they told me there was no other treatment. I was not willing, at 21 years old, to accept this fate. Continuing on pills and allowing them to monitor me continuously would have resulted in me not being able to drive, drink, or exercise, like I said. If worst came to worst, of course the pills were my backup plan. But, I just simply wasn't ready to give up.

Sammy Sofa wrote:The bold part makes absolutely no sense; why is a "quick fix" way to treat and manage medical conditions a bad thing? That's the smart way to allow yourself to make the necessary lifestyle changes to manage, reduce or get off of the medication down the line. And we have no idea what worked out for you; are you actually still seeing doctors? What do your tests say? If you're clear along those lines, hey, that's a great lucky break, but it still seems odd you're zeroing in on an acne medication as being the likely culprit as opposed to the absurdly unhealthy lifestyle you were living. Plus I don't believe for a second that if you had told a doctor that you lived on junk food and extreme workouts that they would have said anything along the lines of, "well, we have no idea what's wrong with you, so here's some medicine" and nothing else. Nobody told you that how you were living was [expletive] up until your hippie friends did? Come on.

It's not taking the quick fix that is the problem. It's sticking with it. People take the quick fix, and that's the only thing they do. They make no lifestyle changes, and just settle for a pill. I completely understand using a medication as a little bit of a jump-start or whatever to help you make changes.

I actually had another overnight EEG done a few years ago when I had a sleep study done. I told them about my seizure history, so they were paying close attention to the EEG for any sort of abnormalities. There were none. They told me I was 100% seizure-free.

The doctors in the hospital never once asked me about my diet. When you're a kid, nobody really lectures you on the dangers of fast food. It's pretty normal for high school and college kids to eat everything in sight, and obviously most of them aren't experiencing seizures. Doctors don't really become concerned with your diet until you get older and you become at risk for diabetes and heart attacks and whatnot. We did discuss my workout habits in detail, and they said repeatedly that working out by itself couldn't be to blame, and that there has to be more going on.
Last edited by Cubbie Swagger on Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:24 pm

Banedon wrote:Haha, ok. I'm definitely done with you. I'll leave you to your tin foil shenanigans.


Ding Dong Johnson wrote:deformity/disorder/imbalance, whatever you want to call it. it's the American Psychiatric Association who make that call, but what would they know? they're just learned doctors

Show me where the American Psychiatric Association says ADHD is a brain deformity.

There are absolutely no studies out there that prove any of the brain deformity or chemical imbalance crap. None. It's a theory

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publicat ... ndex.shtml

Like the article says, there is not even an actual test for ADHD. It is based purely on observation by parents and teachers.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:39 pm

you're now arguing semantics, you ginormous jagaloon
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:39 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:you're now arguing semantics, you ginormous jagaloon

What are you talking about?
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:41 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:you're now arguing semantics, you ginormous jagaloon

What are you talking about?

I've already pointed it out. Now go ahead and play with yourself because you're too ignorant for me to play with.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:44 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:you're now arguing semantics, you ginormous jagaloon

What are you talking about?

I've already pointed it out. Now go ahead and play with yourself because you're too ignorant for me to play with.

Oh, for crying out loud. None of your posts in this thread have made any sense at all.

I just linked you to a .gov website that says the cause of ADHD is "unknown". It doesn't say it's due to a brain deformity or a chemical imbalance.

How much more clear can I be?
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:45 pm

lol
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:47 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:lol

That's what I thought. Your argument is, "I'm right and you're wrong, CUZ LOL OMG".

If I'm so ignorant, please don't stoop to my level. You can go click on a different thread.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:50 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:I am not saying it was the antibiotic on it's own. I thought I was pretty clear that my diet and extreme workout routine were just as much to blame. The fact that I would have seizures after exerting myself physically was surely not a coincidence.


Or it WAS a coincidence.

My confirmation bias consists of this: I got better when I improved my diet and quit the antibiotic.


Or it was coincidental timing. Or due to something else. Or due to only one of the,

I'm not saying I have it all figured out. It was some combination of those 2 things.


Maybe.

There is no test that I'm aware of that can determine what toll a past medication took on me.


Depends on the medication or the damage. If the acne medication actually "drained your immune system," it's likely you didn't leap from freakishly healthy to having violent, epileptic seizures with nothing in between. If your immune system was compromised, you likely would have had a history of illnesses and weakness and the like, and ultimately a compromised immune system likely doesn't manifest itself via epileptic seizures since you don't "catch" epilepsy. If we're looking for lifestyle causes, the horrendous diet and physical exertion are the most likely causes and something became out of whack or imbalanced and lead to your body having seizures, a la diabetic shock. Something is missing from these stories of yours.

I think there is a misconception that doctors have all this crazy technology and they can just figure stuff out magically. Really, it's more like:


No, the idea is that they're far better trained and knowledgeable to deal with medical issues than me or you or your hippie friends. That you figure they're basically just guessing or dicking around and then speak so definitive about how you know what caused what is pretty hilarious. Obviously, doctors can be wrong, but you're making it sound like multiple medical practitioners completely horsefeathers up in figuring out what was/is wrong with you.

This is the drug I was on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minocycline Yes, it has been known to cause auto-immune issues, among other complications.


See above: it makes no sense nobody asked about this or knew about it or thought to have you stop taking it. "What medications are you taking" has basically kicked off every type of doctor's visit I've had, and I couldn't even count how many times I've been told to stop taking something, or had a dosage changed, or told to take it at different times. And, again, compromising your immune system isn't just going to give you epilepsy. If you were one of the rare people to have auto-immune issues because of this drug, that's likely going to manifest itself differently, plus it's a KNOWN SIDE EFFECT. Drug complications are usually (and fortunately) easy fixes, yet supposedly all of these people missed that or willfully ignored it?

The hospital staff told me that I would most likely need to be on medication for the rest of my life, and they briefed me on living with epilepsy as far as safety, like I said. The follow-up appointment was recommended when I was first discharged, and then yes, I decided to take them up on their offer, since I was still having issues. I'm not sure why that is unclear. I called and said, "hey, yeah, let's do that".

Trying medications in and of itself wasn't the issue. The issue is that they told me there was no other treatment. I was not willing, at 21 years old, to accept this fate. Continuing on pills and allowing them to monitor me continuously would have resulted in me not being able to drive, drink, or exercise, like I said. If worst came to worst, of course the pills were my backup plan. But, I just simply wasn't ready to give up.


Dietary care and changes is one of the most common ways to help treat or manage epilepsy (specifically ketogenic diets, which is one of the oldest known treatments for epilepsy). Medication isn't a primary way to treat, but not the only way, yet once again, we somehow have you inexplicably encountering multiple medical professionals who only want to stuff you full of pills and, bizarrely, do not want to try anything else. They mentioned NONE of this to you?

http://www.webmd.com/epilepsy/guide/epi ... tment-care

And hell, if it ended up being that medication was the only option, so what? You make it sound like a death sentence.

It's not taking the quick fix that is the problem. It's sticking with it. People take the quick fix, and that's the only thing they do. They make no lifestyle changes, and just settle for a pill. I completely understand using a medication as a little bit of a jump-start or whatever to help you make changes.


Sticking with medications isn't inherently a bad thing; you're talking like everything can be cured or managed sans medication as long as people are willing to look or try, and that's just complete nonsense. Some conditions require medication, and all the exercise and special diets or "natural" cures won't do a damn thing.

I actually had another overnight EEG done a few years ago when I had a sleep study done. I told them about my seizure history, so they were paying close attention to the EEG for any sort of abnormalities. There were none. They told me I was 100% seizure-free.


Glad to hear it, but that's still just a test for the seizures themselves; it sounds like nobody got to the bottom of what was causing the seizures, and ultimately they easily could have just manifestations at the time of an underlying issue that wasn't treated. I'd hope you've had significant lab work since then.

The doctors in the hospital never once asked me about my diet. When you're a kid, nobody really lectures you on the dangers of fast food. It's pretty normal for high school and college kids to eat everything in sight, and obviously most of them aren't experiencing seizures. We did discuss my workout habits in detail, and they said repeatedly that working out by itself couldn't be to blame, and that there has to be more going on.


Again, this makes no sense; diet can easily play a GIGANTIC factor in how your body is reacting, be it allergies, or how it reacts with medications, or chemical imbalances or things like diabetes and so on. That nobody asked you about your diet seems unlikely.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:57 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:What are you talking about?

I've already pointed it out. Now go ahead and play with yourself because you're too ignorant for me to play with.

Oh, for crying out loud. None of your posts in this thread have made any sense at all.

I just linked you to a .gov website that says the cause of ADHD is "unknown". It doesn't say it's due to a brain deformity or a chemical imbalance.

How much more clear can I be?


it's a condition where the people who have it typically have brains that are physically different (usually smaller), chemically different and/or with a lower brain metabolism. These things aren't "unknown;" what's unknown is what causes these differences.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby SouthSideRyan » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:57 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:[
Quite the opposite in fact, my friend is a chiropractor, and we have some good discussions about proactive health and the use of meds, and he tells me he recommends that his patients come at least two times a week.


I insist you come pay me for this quackery at least twice a week!
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:15 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:I am not saying it was the antibiotic on it's own. I thought I was pretty clear that my diet and extreme workout routine were just as much to blame. The fact that I would have seizures after exerting myself physically was surely not a coincidence.


Or it WAS a coincidence.

My confirmation bias consists of this: I got better when I improved my diet and quit the antibiotic.


Or it was coincidental timing. Or due to something else. Or due to only one of the,

I'm not saying I have it all figured out. It was some combination of those 2 things.


Maybe.

There is no test that I'm aware of that can determine what toll a past medication took on me.


Depends on the medication or the damage. If the acne medication actually "drained your immune system," it's likely you didn't leap from freakishly healthy to having violent, epileptic seizures with nothing in between. If your immune system was compromised, you likely would have had a history of illnesses and weakness and the like, and ultimately a compromised immune system likely doesn't manifest itself via epileptic seizures since you don't "catch" epilepsy. If we're looking for lifestyle causes, the horrendous diet and physical exertion are the most likely causes and something became out of whack or imbalanced and lead to your body having seizures, a la diabetic shock. Something is missing from these stories of yours.

I think there is a misconception that doctors have all this crazy technology and they can just figure stuff out magically. Really, it's more like:


No, the idea is that they're far better trained and knowledgeable to deal with medical issues than me or you or your hippie friends. That you figure they're basically just guessing or dicking around and then speak so definitive about how you know what caused what is pretty hilarious. Obviously, doctors can be wrong, but you're making it sound like multiple medical practitioners completely [expletive] up in figuring out what was/is wrong with you.

This is the drug I was on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minocycline Yes, it has been known to cause auto-immune issues, among other complications.


See above: it makes no sense nobody asked about this or knew about it or thought to have you stop taking it. "What medications are you taking" has basically kicked off every type of doctor's visit I've had, and I couldn't even count how many times I've been told to stop taking something, or had a dosage changed, or told to take it at different times. And, again, compromising your immune system isn't just going to give you epilepsy. If you were one of the rare people to have auto-immune issues because of this drug, that's likely going to manifest itself differently, plus it's a KNOWN SIDE EFFECT. Drug complications are usually (and fortunately) easy fixes, yet supposedly all of these people missed that or willfully ignored it?

The hospital staff told me that I would most likely need to be on medication for the rest of my life, and they briefed me on living with epilepsy as far as safety, like I said. The follow-up appointment was recommended when I was first discharged, and then yes, I decided to take them up on their offer, since I was still having issues. I'm not sure why that is unclear. I called and said, "hey, yeah, let's do that".

Trying medications in and of itself wasn't the issue. The issue is that they told me there was no other treatment. I was not willing, at 21 years old, to accept this fate. Continuing on pills and allowing them to monitor me continuously would have resulted in me not being able to drive, drink, or exercise, like I said. If worst came to worst, of course the pills were my backup plan. But, I just simply wasn't ready to give up.


Dietary care and changes is one of the most common ways to help treat or manage epilepsy (specifically ketogenic diets, which is one of the oldest known treatments for epilepsy). Medication isn't a primary way to treat, but not the only way, yet once again, we somehow have you inexplicably encountering multiple medical professionals who only want to stuff you full of pills and, bizarrely, do not want to try anything else. They mentioned NONE of this to you?

http://www.webmd.com/epilepsy/guide/epi ... tment-care

And hell, if it ended up being that medication was the only option, so what? You make it sound like a death sentence.

It's not taking the quick fix that is the problem. It's sticking with it. People take the quick fix, and that's the only thing they do. They make no lifestyle changes, and just settle for a pill. I completely understand using a medication as a little bit of a jump-start or whatever to help you make changes.


Sticking with medications isn't inherently a bad thing; you're talking like everything can be cured or managed sans medication as long as people are willing to look or try, and that's just complete nonsense. Some conditions require medication, and all the exercise and special diets or "natural" cures won't do a damn thing.

I actually had another overnight EEG done a few years ago when I had a sleep study done. I told them about my seizure history, so they were paying close attention to the EEG for any sort of abnormalities. There were none. They told me I was 100% seizure-free.


Glad to hear it, but that's still just a test for the seizures themselves; it sounds like nobody got to the bottom of what was causing the seizures, and ultimately they easily could have just manifestations at the time of an underlying issue that wasn't treated. I'd hope you've had significant lab work since then.

The doctors in the hospital never once asked me about my diet. When you're a kid, nobody really lectures you on the dangers of fast food. It's pretty normal for high school and college kids to eat everything in sight, and obviously most of them aren't experiencing seizures. We did discuss my workout habits in detail, and they said repeatedly that working out by itself couldn't be to blame, and that there has to be more going on.


Again, this makes no sense; diet can easily play a GIGANTIC factor in how your body is reacting, be it allergies, or how it reacts with medications, or chemical imbalances or things like diabetes and so on. That nobody asked you about your diet seems unlikely.

I feel like one of the major issues here is that you are sort of exaggerating what I'm saying and taking it to the extreme. You're also kinda making some connections in my logic on your own. I never even said that the acne medication was the cause. All I said is that I got better when I changed my diet and quit the pills. That is a fact. How you interpret it is up to you. It very well could have been a coincidence, who knows.

I'm surprised that you are so shocked that the diet stuff wasn't discussed. Are you implying that we DID discuss it, and I'm just making this up? Or that I lied to them and told them I was a healthy eater? I don't get it. I've been to the doctor many more times than the average person, and they almost never ask me about my diet. Like I said, I believe part of it is simply age. They don't worry about your diet until you're older.

As far as the immune system stuff, I'm just brainstorming. I'm not making any crazy claims. I just suspect that the minocycline played at least some small role, in addition to the poor diet and intense exercise. I could be wrong.

When I was in the hospital, obviously the doctors asked me what meds I took. That's like the first question out of their mouth when you walk in. I told them, and they were completely uninterested in the minocycline. I even specifically asked if it might be an issue. It was not even worth investigating, according to them.

Actually, there is a little tidbit that I left out of this story. I omitted it because I was pretty sure it was gonna get quoted and made fun of, just due to the level of smartassness around here. Now that I am adding it after the fact probably makes it even worse, but I don't give a horsefeathers. It happened:

One of the nights I was in the hospital, the night nurse came in to do her routine check. She was an old Asian woman, and English was her second language. She started talking to me and asking me about my situation. The first thing she asks me is, "you aren't taking any antibiotics, are you?" I told her that actually I was, that it was for acne, etc. Then she told me something that blew my mind: she said her husband used to have a problem with fainting and convulsing, and he eventually realized it was due to an antibiotic that he was taking. He stopped taking it, and now he's fine. Now, keep in mind, back then I had full trust in western medical practice. Even though what she said shocked me a bit, I still thought she was full of horsefeathers. I thought to myself, "What does this old Asian lady know? Every specialist I have seen so far has told me the minocycline is not an issue. I think I'd rather believe the doctors than the night nurse."

In hindsight, of course, after everything... I gained a little bit more respect for that old Asian woman.
Last edited by Cubbie Swagger on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:16 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:I've already pointed it out. Now go ahead and play with yourself because you're too ignorant for me to play with.

Oh, for crying out loud. None of your posts in this thread have made any sense at all.

I just linked you to a .gov website that says the cause of ADHD is "unknown". It doesn't say it's due to a brain deformity or a chemical imbalance.

How much more clear can I be?


it's a condition where the people who have it typically have brains that are physically different (usually smaller), chemically different and/or with a lower brain metabolism. These things aren't "unknown;" what's unknown is what causes these differences.

If you could link me to some concrete evidence that says people with ADHD have brains that are smaller, chemically different, and/or have lower metabolism, I would appreciate it. I'm serious. I'm never opposed to being proven wrong, regardless of what you may think about me.

I am aware that there are genetic factors at play, but your statement seems to infer that environmental factors are irrelevant; that it is an actual physical condition.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:40 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:Oh, for crying out loud. None of your posts in this thread have made any sense at all.

I just linked you to a .gov website that says the cause of ADHD is "unknown". It doesn't say it's due to a brain deformity or a chemical imbalance.

How much more clear can I be?


it's a condition where the people who have it typically have brains that are physically different (usually smaller), chemically different and/or with a lower brain metabolism. These things aren't "unknown;" what's unknown is what causes these differences.

If you could link me to some concrete evidence that says people with ADHD have brains that are smaller, chemically different, and/or have lower metabolism, I would appreciate it. I'm serious. I'm never opposed to being proven wrong, regardless of what you may think about me.

I am aware that there are genetic factors at play, but your statement seems to infer that environmental factors are irrelevant; that it is an actual physical condition.


http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/adhd/br ... -data-adhd

Go nuts with Google, too; these are very common findings and conclusions.

I don't know definitively if environmental factors are irrelevant, but the condition is so common and widespread that if it is environmentally influenced then it's due to factors basically inescapable to humans.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:58 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:I feel like one of the major issues here is that you are sort of exaggerating what I'm saying and taking it to the extreme. You're also kinda making some connections in my logic on your own. I never even said that the acne medication was the cause. All I said is that I got better when I changed my diet and quit the pills. That is a fact. How you interpret it is up to you. It very well could have been a coincidence, who knows.


I can only go off of what you decide to tell us or not tell us, and your story has some pretty cryptic holes throughout it.

I'm surprised that you are so shocked that the diet stuff wasn't discussed. Are you implying that we DID discuss it, and I'm just making this up? Or that I lied to them and told them I was a healthy eater? I don't get it. I've been to the doctor many more times than the average person, and they almost never ask me about my diet. Like I said, I believe part of it is simply age. They don't worry about your diet until you're older.


Yes, I think you're either making it up or at least exaggerating for effect; the idea that "diet has no effect until your older" is complete nonsense. If you're talking about a specific condition, like dangerously high cholesterol in fit 21-year-old, yeah, odds are they're not going to worry about that or ask about it. If we're talking about things like digestive issues or allergies or reactions to medications, of course they're going to ask at any age; you're not immune to those sorts of things because you're young or in good shape.

When I was in the hospital, obviously the doctors asked me what meds I took. That's like the first question out of their mouth when you walk in. I told them, and they were completely uninterested in the minocycline. I even specifically asked if it might be an issue. It was not even worth investigating, according to them.


I think this is selective memory on your part; again, drug interactions or side effects are often such a readily identifiable and fixable issue that I seriously doubt they didn't check when they ran their tests. They might have very well said not to worry about them causing seizures or epilepsy, since apparently that's not a known side effect. Odds are you're not the first person to experience previously unknown epileptic seizures as a side effect to a drug that had been around for decades, and especially not after you had been taking it for years without any kind of issue. I mean, you're operating off of a faulty idea in the first place in thinking it "degraded your immune system" and your proof of that are epileptic seizures. That's like having a bloody nose and blaming it on a broken foot.

Actually, there is a little tidbit that I left out of this story. I omitted it because I was pretty sure it was gonna get quoted and made fun of, just due to the level of smartassness around here. Now that I am adding it after the fact probably makes it even worse, but I don't give a [expletive]. It happened:


It's getting kind of ridiculous how many of your stories have caveats of how nobody is going to believe you.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:05 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
it's a condition where the people who have it typically have brains that are physically different (usually smaller), chemically different and/or with a lower brain metabolism. These things aren't "unknown;" what's unknown is what causes these differences.

If you could link me to some concrete evidence that says people with ADHD have brains that are smaller, chemically different, and/or have lower metabolism, I would appreciate it. I'm serious. I'm never opposed to being proven wrong, regardless of what you may think about me.

I am aware that there are genetic factors at play, but your statement seems to infer that environmental factors are irrelevant; that it is an actual physical condition.


http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/adhd/br ... -data-adhd

Go nuts with Google, too; these are very common findings and conclusions.

I don't know definitively if environmental factors are irrelevant, but the condition is so common and widespread that if it is environmentally influenced then it's due to factors basically inescapable to humans.

Interesting article. I'm going to look into it a bit more before I comment on it specifically. Looks promising, though.

Something else I should mention on the "conspiracy" front: Studies are extremely expensive to conduct, and are almost always funded by the pharma companies. Again, they simply have no interest in reducing their profit. Can you blame them? They literally conduct studies just to back up their [expletive]. Any time a study shows anything potentially detrimental to their agenda, it is simply not released. Isn't that what you would do if you were them? Lmao. It only makes sense.

Now, dammit, don't think I'm saying that as a cop-out to discount the article you just linked. It is merely something to be aware of.

As far as environmental factors, are diet and overexposure to electronic media not legitimate suggestions? Kids can't put their cell phone down for 2 seconds these days, but that wouldn't be the case if they didn't have cell phones. ADHD is a condition that didn't exist (at least not in such large numbers) until recently. It is a modern thing, and something must be causing it. And no, it's not just that the condition was going undiagnosed in the past. It is dramatically on the rise. The same is true for autism.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:09 pm

http://www.naturalnews.com/036479_antib ... ction.html

Notice the sources in that article are mayoclinic and a .gov website.
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