Western Medicine

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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:16 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:It's getting kind of ridiculous how many of your stories have caveats of how nobody is going to believe you.

How can you blame me? A staggering percentage of the posts on his forum are memes and zingers. Everybody has their finger on the trigger hoping to be the funniest [expletive].

If you think I'm lying, there's nothing I can say. I was expecting it. Your argument is pretty much, "oh, come on, doctors couldn't possibly suck THAT bad". Well, they did, and they do. It took me quite awhile to accept it myself. There are no holes in my story at all, you are simply nitpicking and splitting hairs to try to discredit me.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:29 pm

On the subject of what I said as far as big pharma and studies, here is a little nugget for you:

http://www.liquisearch.com/long-term_ef ... il_meeting

You wanna know who I found out about this from? MY DOCTOR. Big pharma has known for a long time that benzodiazepines cause severe damage of all sorts, some of which is permanent, and they literally intentionally covered it up. Nobody knew until the documents became declassified. They were trying to protect themselves. It happens all the time.

And, for the record, my doctor isn't some sort of witch doctor. He's one of the top specialists at Advocate Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:46 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:Something else I should mention on the "conspiracy" front: Studies are extremely expensive to conduct, and are almost always funded by the pharma companies. Again, they simply have no interest in reducing their profit. Can you blame them? They literally conduct studies just to back up their [expletive]. Any time a study shows anything potentially detrimental to their agenda, it is simply not released. Isn't that what you would do if you were them? Lmao. It only makes sense.


You're a big fan of self-fulfilling prophecies; that most of the studies in the field of pharmaceuticals are done by people in the field of pharmaceuticals is just common sense. If you're going to automatically dismiss anything by anyone in what you consider "big pharma" then there's absolutely nothing that can be said to help you; you've fallen down the trap that every conspiracy theorist does. You're taking actual cases of people letting greed get the better of them, or incorrect or evolving research and extrapolating that to basically mean ANYTHING you don't want to believe must be a sham.

And you're simplistic approach to the world of medical research is baffling; you honestly think nothing negative about drugs are treatments are never revealed? Nobody ever admits they were wrong? Drugs are pulled from the market or changed or replaced all the time; do you think this is all done in secret and hidden from the public? Nobody is saying it's perfect, but to assume that the "medical industry" as whole is something to be mostly feared and not trusted is paranoia.

As far as environmental factors, are diet and overexposure to electronic media not legitimate suggestions? Kids can't put their cell phone down for 2 seconds these days, but that wouldn't be the case if they didn't have cell phones. ADHD is a condition that didn't exist (at least not in such large numbers) until recently. It is a modern thing, and something must be causing it. And no, it's not just that the condition was going undiagnosed in the past. It is dramatically on the rise. The same is true for autism.


This is a hugely faulty conclusion that gets repeated over and over over again; these are not new conditions. What has risen is the diagnosis, because the diagnosis have not existed for very long, and they are continually being refined. This is like thinking types of canacer didn't exist before they were identified; people with Autism or ADHD were simply diagnosed with something else, if at all. As it stands, there's no evidence that shows either condition is caused by electronic devices.
Last edited by Sammy Sofa on Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:48 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:It's getting kind of ridiculous how many of your stories have caveats of how nobody is going to believe you.

How can you blame me? A staggering percentage of the posts on his forum are memes and zingers. Everybody has their finger on the trigger hoping to be the funniest [expletive].

If you think I'm lying, there's nothing I can say. I was expecting it. Your argument is pretty much, "oh, come on, doctors couldn't possibly suck THAT bad". Well, they did, and they do. It took me quite awhile to accept it myself. There are no holes in my story at all, you are simply nitpicking and splitting hairs to try to discredit me.


We can "blame" you because it makes it sound like you're continually making horsefeathers up. This whole thread is based out of a story that requires a series of unbelievable and absurdly convenient things to happen or not happen to perfectly support your conclusion.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:55 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:On the subject of what I said as far as big pharma and studies, here is a little nugget for you:

http://www.liquisearch.com/long-term_ef ... il_meeting

You wanna know who I found out about this from? MY DOCTOR. Big pharma has known for a long time that benzodiazepines cause severe damage of all sorts, some of which is permanent, and they literally intentionally covered it up. Nobody knew until the documents became declassified. They were trying to protect themselves. It happens all the time.

And, for the record, my doctor isn't some sort of witch doctor. He's one of the top specialists at Advocate Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge.


Nobody is denying shady horsefeathers happens in life. What's ridiculous is assuming EVERYTHING negative in a particular field or sector must be assumed to be the norm. You've decided the exceptions are the rule.

Some teachers are child molesters, but you don't run around assuming the worst of most or all teachers because of it.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:02 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:http://www.naturalnews.com/036479_antibiotics_immune_system_destruction.html

Notice the sources in that article are mayoclinic and a .gov website.


the ".gov website" is an article from the Yale Journal of Biology & Medicine specifically about cancer inflammation, not the focus of the article. The Mayo Clinic article is specifically about the misuse or overuse of antibiotics, not "antibiotics are bad for your immune system, period." The crux of the article is how antibiotics, period, are a threat, and how they impact chemicals in the gut. It's pretty skewed, to say the least.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Banedon » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:02 pm

I don't know whether to praise you, Sammy, for fighting this fight, or question your sanity for not having washed your hands of it yet.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:05 pm

Again, for some reason, you insist on viewing everything I say in this extreme black/white fashion, like I'm this wildly delusional conspiracy theorist.

Here is an example:

Sammy Sofa wrote:And you're simplistic approach to the world of medical research is baffling; you honestly think nothing negative about drugs are treatments are never revealed? Nobody ever admits they were wrong. Drugs are pulled from the market or changed or replaced all the time; do you think this is all done in secret and hidden from the public? Nobody is saying it's perfect, but to assume that the "medical industry" as whole is something to be mostly feared and not trusted is paranoia.

I never said anything of the sort. You're putting words in my mouth. I did not say that "nothing negative about drugs is ever revealed".

As far as pulling drugs from the shelf... what are you talking about? Do you know what benzodiazepines are? Xanax, Valium, Ativan, Klonopin, etc. I'm sure there are at least a few folks on this forum that either take them or have taken them at some point in their life. They are still being distributed at all-time high rates, for all sorts of conditions. Doctors in medical school have literally been miseducated on these drugs on purpose. People come in with all these crazy symptoms and side effects, and the doctors are all, "huh? nah, that can't be, we just need to up your dose again, you're just a hypochondriac". Because that's what their textbooks said in medical school.

^This above paragraph is based on numerous conversations that I have had with legitimate experts on this subject. My doctor would verify all of it.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:06 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:On the subject of what I said as far as big pharma and studies, here is a little nugget for you:

http://www.liquisearch.com/long-term_ef ... il_meeting

You wanna know who I found out about this from? MY DOCTOR. Big pharma has known for a long time that benzodiazepines cause severe damage of all sorts, some of which is permanent, and they literally intentionally covered it up. Nobody knew until the documents became declassified. They were trying to protect themselves. It happens all the time.

And, for the record, my doctor isn't some sort of witch doctor. He's one of the top specialists at Advocate Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge.


Nobody is denying shady [expletive] happens in life. What's ridiculous is assuming EVERYTHING negative in a particular field or sector must be assumed to be the norm. You've decided the exceptions are the rule.

Some teachers are child molesters, but you don't run around assuming the worst of most or all teachers because of it.

More extreme statements that are not in line with my beliefs.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:07 pm

Banedon wrote:I don't know whether to praise you, Sammy, for fighting this fight, or question your sanity for not having washed your hands of it yet.

crazy people don't know they're crazy
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:10 pm

Here's another example of doctors selling you drugs against better judgement:

It is EXTREMELY common for doctors to prescribe antibiotics when someone comes in with a cold. The most common of these is a Z-pack, which most people are probably familiar with. It is an absolute fact that antibiotics are not to be prescribed for viral illnesses. They make the problem worse. Look it up. Yet, doctors still pass this stuff out every single day.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:11 pm

There's that persecution complex again. You do nothing but post negative things about the threat of "big pharma" in a thread about how you gut turned away from "western medicine" and then you get mad when people take these things to mean that you're worried about the threat of "big pharma" and "western medicine." You're basically getting mad at us for the things you're posting.

And yes, I know what benzodiazepines are; what is your conclusion about them? That they shouldn't be prescribed? They're incredibly useful with a wide array of conditions they can help treat, and they can cause serious issues if prescribed incorrectly or misused or abused. If you're so worried about me putting words in your mouth, then explain what the point of you posting the article about them and your cryptic rumblings about the nefarious nature of the pharmaceutical industry.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:17 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:Here's another example of doctors selling you drugs against better judgement:

It is EXTREMELY common for doctors to prescribe antibiotics when someone comes in with a cold. The most common of these is a Z-pack, which most people are probably familiar with. It is an absolute fact that antibiotics are not to be prescribed for viral illnesses. They make the problem worse. Look it up. Yet, doctors still pass this stuff out every single day.


Actually, the attitude towards z-packs has changed in recent years. If you're seeing the same doctor or doctors, it's unusual if they don't hold back on the z-packs now unless you have a severe bacterial or respiratory illness. The general approach is that too many z-packs can lead to resistance to the antibiotics they contain and they want to limit them for things like severe sinus infections. They used to give them out more often in case there was a respiratory infection, but generally not nearly as much anymore so as to keep them effective.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:18 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:On the subject of what I said as far as big pharma and studies, here is a little nugget for you:

http://www.liquisearch.com/long-term_ef ... il_meeting

You wanna know who I found out about this from? MY DOCTOR. Big pharma has known for a long time that benzodiazepines cause severe damage of all sorts, some of which is permanent, and they literally intentionally covered it up. Nobody knew until the documents became declassified. They were trying to protect themselves. It happens all the time.

And, for the record, my doctor isn't some sort of witch doctor. He's one of the top specialists at Advocate Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge.


Nobody is denying shady [expletive] happens in life. What's ridiculous is assuming EVERYTHING negative in a particular field or sector must be assumed to be the norm. You've decided the exceptions are the rule.

Some teachers are child molesters, but you don't run around assuming the worst of most or all teachers because of it.

More extreme statements that are not in line with my beliefs.


What extreme statement? You're the one seemingly telling us not to trust "big pharma" most of the time.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:19 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:There's that persecution complex again. You do nothing but post negative things about the threat of "big pharma" in a thread about how you gut turned away from "western medicine" and then you get mad when people take these things to mean that you're worried about the threat of "big pharma" and "western medicine." You're basically getting mad at us for the things you're posting.

And yes, I know what benzodiazepines are; what is your conclusion about them? That they shouldn't be prescribed? They're incredibly useful with a wide array of conditions they can help treat, and they can cause serious issues if prescribed incorrectly or misused or abused. If you're so worried about me putting words in your mouth, then explain what the point of you posting the article about them and your cryptic rumblings about the nefarious nature of the pharmaceutical industry.

They actually have essentially no use outside of emergencies and perhaps a few select rare medical conditions. For a person to be prescribed a daily benzo is incorrect basically 100% of the time. It has nothing to do with abuse. I'm talking about people who are taking small therapeutic doses.

The reason I posted the article is that it is a simple example of some pretty blatant shadiness. They knew they were hurting people, and still to this day, they continue to profit from it. It was intentionally concealed from the public. That is a fact.

And please, don't even try to tell me I'm wrong about benzos. The doctor that I referred to earlier is the leading benzo expert in the entire country. Patients literally fly from other countries to see him. You think I'm making this up?
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:21 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:Here's another example of doctors selling you drugs against better judgement:

It is EXTREMELY common for doctors to prescribe antibiotics when someone comes in with a cold. The most common of these is a Z-pack, which most people are probably familiar with. It is an absolute fact that antibiotics are not to be prescribed for viral illnesses. They make the problem worse. Look it up. Yet, doctors still pass this stuff out every single day.


Actually, the attitude towards z-packs has changed in recent years. If you're seeing the same doctor or doctors, it's unusual if they don't hold back on the z-packs now unless you have a severe bacterial or respiratory illness. The general approach is that too many z-packs can lead to resistance to the antibiotics they contain and they want to limit them for things like severe sinus infections. They used to give them out more often in case there was a respiratory infection, but generally not nearly as much anymore so as to keep them effective.

I was given a Z-Pack in 2013. To be honest, I felt like I was going to have a seizure. Luckily, I didn't. I was literally sitting down on the carpeted floor because I thought I was about to lose consciousness.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:24 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:There's that persecution complex again. You do nothing but post negative things about the threat of "big pharma" in a thread about how you gut turned away from "western medicine" and then you get mad when people take these things to mean that you're worried about the threat of "big pharma" and "western medicine." You're basically getting mad at us for the things you're posting.

And yes, I know what benzodiazepines are; what is your conclusion about them? That they shouldn't be prescribed? They're incredibly useful with a wide array of conditions they can help treat, and they can cause serious issues if prescribed incorrectly or misused or abused. If you're so worried about me putting words in your mouth, then explain what the point of you posting the article about them and your cryptic rumblings about the nefarious nature of the pharmaceutical industry.

They actually have essentially no use outside of emergencies and perhaps a few select rare medical conditions. For a person to be prescribed a daily benzo is incorrect basically 100% of the time. It has nothing to do with abuse. I'm talking about people who are taking small therapeutic doses.

The reason I posted the article is that it is a simple example of some pretty blatant shadiness. They knew they were hurting people, and still to this day, they continue to profit from it. It was intentionally concealed from the public. That is a fact.

And please, don't even try to tell me I'm wrong about benzos. The doctor that I referred to earlier is the leading benzo expert in the entire country. Patients literally fly from other countries to see him. You think I'm making this up?


No, I think he has a clear agenda that's ultimately incorrect and you agree with it. One medical professional isn't going to trump all others.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:26 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:Here's another example of doctors selling you drugs against better judgement:

It is EXTREMELY common for doctors to prescribe antibiotics when someone comes in with a cold. The most common of these is a Z-pack, which most people are probably familiar with. It is an absolute fact that antibiotics are not to be prescribed for viral illnesses. They make the problem worse. Look it up. Yet, doctors still pass this stuff out every single day.


Actually, the attitude towards z-packs has changed in recent years. If you're seeing the same doctor or doctors, it's unusual if they don't hold back on the z-packs now unless you have a severe bacterial or respiratory illness. The general approach is that too many z-packs can lead to resistance to the antibiotics they contain and they want to limit them for things like severe sinus infections. They used to give them out more often in case there was a respiratory infection, but generally not nearly as much anymore so as to keep them effective.

I was given a Z-Pack in 2013. To be honest, I felt like I was going to have a seizure. Luckily, I didn't. I was literally sitting down on the carpeted floor because I thought I was about to lose consciousness.


Z-packs are very strong, and if you take it on an empty stomach it can easily feel like you're going to pass out and/or get sick. Sounds like you might have developed some allergies to certain medicines.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:40 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubbie Swagger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:There's that persecution complex again. You do nothing but post negative things about the threat of "big pharma" in a thread about how you gut turned away from "western medicine" and then you get mad when people take these things to mean that you're worried about the threat of "big pharma" and "western medicine." You're basically getting mad at us for the things you're posting.

And yes, I know what benzodiazepines are; what is your conclusion about them? That they shouldn't be prescribed? They're incredibly useful with a wide array of conditions they can help treat, and they can cause serious issues if prescribed incorrectly or misused or abused. If you're so worried about me putting words in your mouth, then explain what the point of you posting the article about them and your cryptic rumblings about the nefarious nature of the pharmaceutical industry.

They actually have essentially no use outside of emergencies and perhaps a few select rare medical conditions. For a person to be prescribed a daily benzo is incorrect basically 100% of the time. It has nothing to do with abuse. I'm talking about people who are taking small therapeutic doses.

The reason I posted the article is that it is a simple example of some pretty blatant shadiness. They knew they were hurting people, and still to this day, they continue to profit from it. It was intentionally concealed from the public. That is a fact.

And please, don't even try to tell me I'm wrong about benzos. The doctor that I referred to earlier is the leading benzo expert in the entire country. Patients literally fly from other countries to see him. You think I'm making this up?


No, I think he has a clear agenda that's ultimately incorrect and you agree with it. One medical professional isn't going to trump all others.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None.

I'm pretty okay with walking away from this issue now, since we've reached an issue that I am genuinely extremely, extremely knowledgeable on, and you still fail to take me seriously.

There are plenty of other doctors out there that subscribe to the same school of thought. He's not the only one.

Sammy Sofa wrote:Z-packs are very strong, and if you take it on an empty stomach it can easily feel like you're going to pass out and/or get sick. Sounds like you might have developed some allergies to certain medicines.

Okay. But the point is that I was given a Z-pack for a cold as recently as 3 years ago. You would agree that is not the correct prescription, right?
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Cubbie Swagger wrote:You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None.

I'm pretty okay with walking away from this issue now, since we've reached an issue that I am genuinely extremely, extremely knowledgeable on, and you still fail to take me seriously.

There are plenty of other doctors out there that subscribe to the same school of thought. He's not the only one.


Feel free to walk away. There's not a global conspiracy to prescribe a medication that has absolutely no use whatsoever.

Okay. But the point is that I was given a Z-pack for a cold as recently as 3 years ago. You would agree that is not the correct prescription, right?


If you didn't have any sinus or respiratory issues, no, it would have been pretty pointless and would have only served to potentially increase your resistance to the antibiotics when you actually needed them.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:10 pm

Cubbie, your argument I think is basically, Western medicine didn't work for me so it's bad for everyone. It works for a lot of people though. If something else worked better for you I'm not gonna try and discredit it. As long as it's working for you, do your thing.

Doesn't have to discredit it for everyone though and go into conspiracy theory crap.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:38 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:There's not a global conspiracy to prescribe a medication that has absolutely no use whatsoever.

I absolutely did not say that. This is becoming quite the trend. You take something I say, and then reword it into the most outlandish possible blanket statement that you can.

WrigleyField 22 wrote:Cubbie, your argument I think is basically, Western medicine didn't work for me so it's bad for everyone. It works for a lot of people though. If something else worked better for you I'm not gonna try and discredit it. As long as it's working for you, do your thing.

Doesn't have to discredit it for everyone though and go into conspiracy theory crap.

Not exactly. If I were to summarize everything I've said into a few points, it would be:

1) Pills are over-prescribed in America. Some people greatly benefit from them, some people are harmed by them, and some people are just kinda taking them without really thinking about it too much. There's a spectrum for sure. Pills aren't the devil, I just encourage people to look at lifestyle changes as an alternative.

2) There are lots of doctors out there that are only interested in billing your insurance company. Whether it's writing a prescription, or acting buddy-buddy with you in therapy, or whatever, they just want you coming back. It's obviously a profit-based business. Not all doctors are bad, as I have stated. I just encourage people to be careful and to think for themselves as opposed to blindly trusting a white coat and a stethoscope.

3) Some people are genuinely happier and better off relying on western medical practices. To give an example: everybody knows that things like fast food, cigarettes, booze, lack of exercise, etc. are bad for you. It's no secret. Some folks would rather just take a pill and go about their normal life the way they want to live it, and that's totally fine.

4) So many people feel like they HAVE to rely on western medicine. Like, they just have no choice or they're gonna die a miserable death. This is obviously not true. There are natural ways to solve many of the problems that people go to doctors for.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:42 pm

You know, it's funny... one of the reasons I made this thread was that I felt like I wanted to let you guys know that I'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist who thinks the entire medical industry is a scam. It looks like I've somehow done the exact opposite.
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby Cubbie Swagger » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:56 pm

Mr. Sofa, I have a direct question for you.

Let's assume for a second that the chemical imbalance theory is proven fact. Let's assume kids with ADHD have different brains.

If that is the case, does it not bother you that there is no testing at all involved in the diagnosis? These drugs are prescribed based purely on observed symptoms.

To take it one step further: Let's talk about SSRI's for a second. Like I said, more than 90% of the serotonin in the body is produced in the gut. That's a fact. So, given that fact, how can a psychiatrist say with any certainty (again, without doing any testing whatsoever) that you have a genetic chemical imbalance that causes depression? Doesn't it seem more likely that the food you're putting into your gut is to blame?
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Re: Western Medicine

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:59 pm

I know I'm butting into your question to Sofa, but I feel like you want medicine to be an episode of House... Observational diagnosis aren't a bad thing. There doesn't have to be some smoking gun.
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