The Chili has gone bad

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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Brian707 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:22 pm

UMFan83 wrote:
Banedon wrote:
Holy crap what an awful take



That was a terrible take. I mean they were rushed thru the minors and won a WS.

A 2nd place team? Yes for this year but probably not going forward

If the Cubs won 1 more game they would have held off the Brewers and the narrative would have been "Resiliency"
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby David » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:28 pm

UK wrote:https://yanksgoyard.com/2018/01/29/yankees-coaching-carousel-comes-end/

PJ Piliterre is my favorite choice.


for some reason this made me think of phil plantier and then i wondered if he was briefly a cub or if i was just confusing him with phil nevin or something (he wasn't and i think i was)
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby David » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:35 pm

was mooney one of the reporters back in the spring suggesting the cubs wouldn't dong as much (who we admittedly made fun of) because of chili's history with the red sox?
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Pushfrog98 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:04 pm

David wrote:was mooney one of the reporters back in the spring suggesting the cubs wouldn't dong as much (who we admittedly made fun of) because of chili's history with the red sox?

I remember reading something like this, but can’t seem to find it to remember who wrote it. Someone who isn’t on their phone might have better luck.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:43 pm

Mooney has gotten better since joining the Athletic but that is a terrible take. However, I can get on board with the sentiment that Chili should not be back but that he'll take way more blame from both fans and players than he deserves.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby David » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:54 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Mooney has gotten better since joining the Athletic but that is a terrible take. However, I can get on board with the sentiment that Chili should not be back but that he'll take way more blame from both fans and players than he deserves.


really? i think he's worse and thought he was decent at csn
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:58 pm

David wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Mooney has gotten better since joining the Athletic but that is a terrible take. However, I can get on board with the sentiment that Chili should not be back but that he'll take way more blame from both fans and players than he deserves.


really? i think he's worse and thought he was decent at csn


I think he's always looking for the narrative that is what someone(be it the team or some portion of the fanbase) doesn't want to hear, I'm sure there's some logic for it from a journalistic sense. I think Sharma has rubbed off on him in a positive way so that those narrative takes are at least more informed or subdued if they aren't. That entitled second place team nonsense though, woof. As bad as anything he did at CSN.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Bull » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:11 pm

I really think different hitting coaches help different players. Mallee obviously didn’t help Heyward, Chili was really bad for rizzo early in the year. Pentland (and PEDs) helped Sammy but no one else.

I dunno, I feel like this is a thing. I wish we could keep chili and only let him work with Heyward.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:14 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:.......... However, I can get on board with the sentiment that Chili should not be back but that he'll take way more blame from both fans and players than he deserves.


huh? The offense tanked and is very likely due to his coaching. Its not the first time (see his time at Boston). He gets a lot if not almost all of the blame. Is he getting death threats or something?
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:15 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:.......... However, I can get on board with the sentiment that Chili should not be back but that he'll take way more blame from both fans and players than he deserves.


huh? The offense tanked and is very likely due to his coaching. Its not the first time (see his time at Boston). He gets a lot if not almost all of the blame. Is he getting death threats or something?


I think Bryant's injury was the biggest issue. If he's healthy they score a couple more runs and probably win at least one more game. Nobody complains.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:20 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:huh? The offense tanked and is very likely due to his coaching.


How much do you think hitting coaches actually matter?

Mallee got fired because there was a lot of stagnation/regression, Schwarber most notably but also Russell, no progression from Baez, etc. I won't argue that there's clearly some philosophical differences and that if the players don't have faith you need to move on, but a single season where the team went from 3rd in the NL in wRC+ to...3rd in the NL in wRC+ is well within the range of any number of factors independent of the hitting coach too.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:22 pm

Theo giving one last chance to Chili to explain his teachings, philosophy and theories to save his job.

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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby big ball chunky time » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:27 pm

why the horsefeathers was brad pitt in that movie lmao
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:29 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:.......... However, I can get on board with the sentiment that Chili should not be back but that he'll take way more blame from both fans and players than he deserves.


huh? The offense tanked and is very likely due to his coaching. Its not the first time (see his time at Boston). He gets a lot if not almost all of the blame. Is he getting death threats or something?


I think Bryant's injury was the biggest issue. If he's healthy they score a couple more runs and probably win at least one more game. Nobody complains.


Bryant's injury was a big factor clearly, but dropping 60+ hr's from year to year isn't due to one guy.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:41 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
huh? The offense tanked and is very likely due to his coaching. Its not the first time (see his time at Boston). He gets a lot if not almost all of the blame. Is he getting death threats or something?


I think Bryant's injury was the biggest issue. If he's healthy they score a couple more runs and probably win at least one more game. Nobody complains.


Bryant's injury was a big factor clearly, but dropping 60+ hr's from year to year isn't due to one guy.


The average team hit 20 fewer HR than last year, and Bryant alone is another 15.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby David » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:42 pm

i don't think hitting coaches generally matter all that much because one guy who can be an awesome fit with 1 or 2 hitters could be a terrible fit for the swing of another couple guys, but it seemed pretty clear that chili/maddon were advocating a different type of approach throughout the lineup that was more line drive oriented and less launch angle oriented, and that seemed to pretty clearly manifest itself in a severe lack of dong potency (not just from missing bryant) in a lineup that was pretty much stacked top to bottom with guys capable of hitting 20+ HR (aside from heyward).

javy managed to avoid it because he probably never even knew the hitting coach's name.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby David » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:45 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
I think Bryant's injury was the biggest issue. If he's healthy they score a couple more runs and probably win at least one more game. Nobody complains.


Bryant's injury was a big factor clearly, but dropping 60+ hr's from year to year isn't due to one guy.


The average team hit 20 fewer HR than last year, and Bryant alone is another 15.


i mean they went from like 9th in mlb in 2017 to 22nd and the coaching staff publicly denounced launch angle and talked about spreading line drives around
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:54 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
I think Bryant's injury was the biggest issue. If he's healthy they score a couple more runs and probably win at least one more game. Nobody complains.


Bryant's injury was a big factor clearly, but dropping 60+ hr's from year to year isn't due to one guy.


The average team hit 20 fewer HR than last year, and Bryant alone is another 15.


they hit 56 fewer hr's. Everyone not named BAEZ loss power. And Baez alone accounted for 11 additional hr's that Bryant didn't hit between the years. Overall, the offense loss power and rather dramatically. Overall OPS took a 31 point loss. 62 fewer runs over the 162 game schedule. That's Chiliball with a sprinkling of Maddon enabling. Chili gets his blame*.


*I don't feel death threats are appropriate
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby treebird » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:58 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:I don't feel death threats are appropriate


wow check out the sjw
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Derwood » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:03 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:why the horsefeathers was brad pitt in that movie lmao


I picture the director talking to the real Billy Beane and saying “who should play you in this movie?” And Beane is like “Brad Pitt, lol” and the director says “DONE!!”
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Brian » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:08 pm

Wasn't Depodesta going to be a CGI character at one point, or am I making that up?

edit: I can't find anything on it with google, the only thing close is an idea to explain the stats with animation so I guess that may be what I'm remembering
Last edited by Brian on Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:10 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Bryant's injury was a big factor clearly, but dropping 60+ hr's from year to year isn't due to one guy.


The average team hit 20 fewer HR than last year, and Bryant alone is another 15.


they hit 56 fewer hr's. Everyone not named BAEZ loss power. And Baez alone accounted for 11 additional hr's that Bryant didn't hit between the years. Overall, the offense loss power and rather dramatically. Overall OPS took a 31 point loss. 62 fewer runs over the 162 game schedule. That's Chiliball with a sprinkling of Maddon enabling. Chili gets his blame*.


*I don't feel death threats are appropriate


League-wide OPS dropped 25 points and teams scored 30 runs fewer on average. The Cubs lost 27 points in slugging, the league lost 18. The gaps between that and the Cubs are even narrower considering how important Bryant is to the offense(2018 Baez was as close to 2017 Almora in offensive output as he was 2017 Bryant). This is not a #freeChili campaign, and I think you can lay a small part of the offense's inconsistency and power down turn at his feet. But the idea that counting numbers went down and that's on Chili is ignoring the two most important reasons, Bryant's injury and league-wide offense regressing.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:15 pm

I was always cautious to blame Chili for the overall offense trending down, especially in the 2nd half when there were circumstances with injuries, etc with guys that no hitting coach would fix. I figured I’d trust the FO with whatever direction they went with him this offseason with keeping him or letting him go. Since they let him go I’ll believe he had at least some cause/blame for it, I don’t think he was the only reason but believed he caused some of it.

I think he really horsefeathers up Willy the most just from the eye test. It was clear he was taking the contact/GB/oppo approach and running with it most of the year, but again he did catch a lot of innings and had to be dealing with some injuries and fatigue that we just can’t blame Chili 100% for it.
Last edited by Cubswin11 on Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:18 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
The average team hit 20 fewer HR than last year, and Bryant alone is another 15.


they hit 56 fewer hr's. Everyone not named BAEZ loss power. And Baez alone accounted for 11 additional hr's that Bryant didn't hit between the years. Overall, the offense loss power and rather dramatically. Overall OPS took a 31 point loss. 62 fewer runs over the 162 game schedule. That's Chiliball with a sprinkling of Maddon enabling. Chili gets his blame*.


*I don't feel death threats are appropriate


League-wide OPS dropped 25 points and teams scored 30 runs fewer on average. The Cubs lost 27 points in slugging, the league lost 18. The gaps between that and the Cubs are even narrower considering how important Bryant is to the offense(2018 Baez was as close to 2017 Almora in offensive output as he was 2017 Bryant). This is not a #freeChili campaign, and I think you can lay a small part of the offense's inconsistency and power down turn at his feet. But the idea that counting numbers went down and that's on Chili is ignoring the two most important reasons, Bryant's injury and league-wide offense regressing.


Yes, I did ignore the league wide trend mostly because I cant explain why. Was it a tighter pitching league? where more borderline pitches called for strikes? In the case of the Cubs, I think the drop in power is a pretty clear indication of why they struggled on offense and,,, well, you did have Maddon and Chili talking about "..more contact less launch angle".

I'm not ignoring Bryant's injury. But here's the thing, you can change the hitting philosophy, you cant change players getting hurt. Thats why Chili (and Maddon) deserve most of the blame here.
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Re: The Chili has gone bad

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:20 pm

The league wide offensive drop off probably is due to more bullpening (more platoon disadvantage for hitters, more premium stuff faced, less seeing a SP 3rd time, etc) and I think the ball wasn’t as juiced this year (Someone did one of those x-ray or whatever studies with balls from this year vs last year around the ASB I think).
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