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Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:46 pm
by Sammy Sofa
badger wrote:We're not really whoop de dooing our first World Series in over a century are we?


I am doing that towards the idea that a sentient canned ham should be indefinitely automatically penciled in as a corner OF for this team because of what he did 3 seasons ago, and regardless of how he's performed since.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:00 pm
by JennieGarthAlgar
Im pretty sure I remember Theo saying in the past that Schwarber had the potential to be like a 'left handed hitting Kris Bryant' and, well, he was right!

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:13 pm
by Bertz
Wait, are pretending Schwarber is bad now? A week ago his numbers were great, so people are losing their horsefeathers after a bad weekend?

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:21 pm
by Sammy Sofa
The window where his numbers were "great" was due to an even tinier sample size than the one you're griping about people reacting to.

3 games in March: .417 .462 1.000 1.462

11 games so far in April: .125 .205 .200 .405

He's projecting to be lucky to be a 2 WAR guy out there. He wasn't good in 2017, and his 2018 value was bolstered only if you go by Fangraphs' VERY generous appraisal of his defensive ability, which is looking more and more like something he would have to be able to sustain to justify keeping him as the main LF guy.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:58 pm
by squally1313
Sammy Sofa wrote:The window where his numbers were "great" was due to an even tinier sample size than the one you're griping about people reacting to.

3 games in March: .417 .462 1.000 1.462

11 games so far in April: .125 .205 .200 .405

He's projecting to be lucky to be a 2 WAR guy out there. He wasn't good in 2017, and his 2018 value was bolstered only if you go by Fangraphs' VERY generous appraisal of his defensive ability, which is looking more and more like something he would have to be able to sustain to justify keeping him as the main LF guy.


Since you referenced his FG defensive numbers from 2018, which I agree probably isn't a sustainable skill...going just by his 'Offense' number, which was 10.3, puts him at 64th in baseball last year. Nothing to build a team around, but that kind of talent has a starting spot on every team in baseball.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:17 pm
by Sammy Sofa
If he was on a team where he didn't have to be in the field, sure. I don't mind the Cubs having him around as a bench bat/sometimes platoon guy...but it seems more and more like the ship has sailed on him being any measure of THE guy like they had hoped out there.

I'm just saying, if Theo and co. are determined to have these Frankenstein's monster-lineups, I would have preferred something like having to juggle Schwarber, Bryant, Baez and Machado between LF-3B-SS than what they're stuck with. Stupid greedy team.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:22 pm
by Derwood
The Gu is a perfect superhero name for him.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:26 pm
by Sammy Sofa
The Shoulda Stayed-Big Ragu.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:42 pm
by Transmogrified Tiger
3 games in March: .417 .462 1.000 1.462

11 games so far in April: .125 .205 .200 .405


11 games so far in April: .125 .205 .200 .405


11 games so far in April


11 games

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:51 pm
by Sammy Sofa
And he'll still be mediocre at best at 111 games this season.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:06 pm
by Sammy Sofa
Second half of 2018 Kyle:

.221 .323 .417 .740

BAbip: .272
tOPS+: 80
sOPS+: 103
wOBA: .304
wRC: 20
wRC+: 89

Take your pick.

THE TREND OF STENCH CONTINUES.

Image

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 pm
by Cubswin11
Sammy Sofa wrote:Second half of 2018 Kyle:

.221 .323 .417 .740

BAbip: .272
tOPS+: 80
sOPS+: 103
wOBA: .304
wRC: 20
wRC+: 89

Take your pick.

THE TREND OF STENCH CONTINUES.

Image

I don’t remember so that’s why I’m asking and not trying to make any sort of point but his back injury kicked in around July/August last year didn’t it?

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:11 pm
by Sammy Sofa
I don't remember either (SHOCKING). But as with Bryant, historical injuries with the Cubs don't do much to make me feel better in terms of hoping they'll get better.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm
by Cubswin11
Sammy Sofa wrote:I don't remember either (SHOCKING). But as with Bryant, historical injuries with the Cubs don't do much to make me feel better in terms of hoping they'll get better.

I don’t think it came out until after the season but basically he was dealing with a back injury for a good amount of time and playing through it, iirc, sometime in the second half.

Edit: looks like he did have disc issue in his back sometime in August and it caused him to miss a lot of September and October games and he was playing through it for a while.



Among many, many other interesting things, Sharma notes Schwarber’s potentially depressed trade value and writes, “It doesn’t help that Schwarber is coming off a disc-related back issue that limited him to 18 games in September and October and kept him from making a couple road trips with the team to avoid long flights. How that is affecting his trade value isn’t completely clear, but it’s certainly not a positive.”

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:24 pm
by Sammy Sofa
Cubswin11 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I don't remember either (SHOCKING). But as with Bryant, historical injuries with the Cubs don't do much to make me feel better in terms of hoping they'll get better.

I don’t think it came out until after the season but basically he was dealing with a back injury for a good amount of time and playing through it, iirc, sometime in the second half.


Tracks with this damn org. Ugh.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:25 pm
by Sammy Sofa
Though those 18 games in Sept/Oct. are actually what salvaged those 2nd half numbers from looking even worse. Go figure. Maybe he needs his mutant lumpy spine.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:17 pm
by BigSlick
Schwarber rules, all of you are insane

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:26 pm
by bcl412
Even if he sucks now being angry at him isn’t something I can get behind. His monster dongs in 15 and the comeback from injury in 16 were enough to keep that from happening. Would love to see more schwarber greatness but if it’s over then fine

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:34 pm
by Sammy Sofa
I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:48 am
by PackLandVA
Sammy Sofa wrote:I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.


For drafting him?

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

Or for not trading him not that his value is lowered?

Or some other reason?

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:56 am
by Cubswin11
Sammy Sofa wrote:I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.

In fairness to the FO, if he doesn’t blow out his knee in a fluke play and could’ve stayed catching (like he was drafted to) even just ~55 games a year the bat is a lot more valuable and his overall outcome is better.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:32 am
by Backtobanks
PackLandVA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.


For drafting him?

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

Or for not trading him not that his value is lowered?

Or some other reason?



For not trading him when people thought he was the second coming of Babe Ruth. I suggested trading both Russell and Schwarber when they had trade value.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:19 pm
by squally1313
Backtobanks wrote:
PackLandVA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.


For drafting him?

Or for not trading him when his value was high?

Or for not trading him not that his value is lowered?

Or some other reason?



For not trading him when people thought he was the second coming of Babe Ruth. I suggested trading both Russell and Schwarber when they had trade value.


Good for you? Do you suggest trading Baez now? Or Contreras if he puts together a good three months? Probably should have traded KB coming off his ROY season given his play last year and this year.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:25 pm
by Sammy Sofa
PackLandVA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.


Or for not trading him when his value was high?


That, and it applies potentially to multiple guys on the team. I get the video game appeal of fielding a team of almost nothing but homegrown stud bats, but that's not something likely to pan out, and it's not like the pitching issues were ever going to be something to take them by surprise with the way the team was constructed and how their drafting went.

It's just long bugged me how seemingly every single significant minor leaguer they developed or drafted who got called up seemingly became untouchable once they arrived.

I know a lot of it is hindsight, but it can't help but annoy me that between Baez, Russell, Contreras, Happ, Almora and Schwarber, NONE of those guys were traded when they would have brought back or helped bring back a really good return in an area of weakness from an area of strength.

Re: "Time makes fools of us all" - The Kyle Schwarber Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:36 pm
by squally1313
Sammy Sofa wrote:
PackLandVA wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I'm not angry at him; I'm annoyed with the FO.


Or for not trading him when his value was high?


That, and it applies potentially to multiple guys on the team. I get the video game appeal of fielding a team of almost nothing but homegrown stud bats, but that's not something likely to pan out, and it's not like the pitching issues were ever going to be something to take them by surprise with the way the team was constructed and how their drafting went.

It's just long bugged me how seemingly every single significant minor leaguer they developed or drafted who got called up seemingly became untouchable once they arrived.

I know a lot of it is hindsight, but it can't help but annoy me that between Baez, Russell, Contreras, Happ, Almora and Schwarber, NONE of those guys were traded when they would have brought back or helped bring back a really good return in an area of weakness from an area of strength.


But that's only half the equation. Did you want to trade them for players at a similar cost and similar points in their careers? Because then you're just moving the issue around, and in your vision from positions that are usually much easier to predict (hitters) to ones much harder to predict (pitchers).

Or did you want to trade for older, more proven but more expensive players? It's interesting you started that list with Baez. When did you want to trade him, and what do you think we could have gotten that would have turned into more than what we've gotten from Baez over the last year?

I'm not at all opposed to criticizing Theo/Jed...the failure to develop a single pitcher, what looks to be multiple misses in free agency, and that's before getting into things like Chapman, Murphy, Russell. But it's easy to look back at Happ/Almora/Schwarber/Russell now and be like 'well inevitably they were going to turn into garbage, and only we were supposed to know that and flip them at exactly the right time' when 'the right time' was when everyone was thinking 'these guys are a big part of our future'.