John Mallee

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Re: John Mallee

Postby woodchip2153 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:37 pm

Agony and Ivy wrote:
bd811 wrote:
woodchip2153 wrote:




As far as specific names, I have no clue. I don't follow baseball closely enough to have specific names. Heck I can probably only name two hitting coaches in baseball, and that would just be guessing ex-cub coaches and Jacque Jones. Teams that I think have a good approach from what I've seen, the Astros, Brewers, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Indians. But those are for the most part, just really good offenses with really good players. Again, I think the Cubs are in good hands, I just also think there might be room for improvement (see above).


the brewers rank in the bottom half of baseball in every meaningful offensive category except BB%, where they're 11th. let's cross them off the list of teams to emulate.


Holy horsefeathers another Vaunted Brewers truther? THE BREWERS horsefeathering SUCK. The Astros were historically good so if that's your bar you're going to be massively disappointed. The Diamondbacks? Get the horsefeathers out of here, they're not close to being as good as the Cubs. The Indians should probably fire everyone too because they didn't even make it out of the DS this year so they're clearly hopeless. The Dodgers got career years out of something called Chris Taylor and Austin Barnes. They'll be awesome again next year but we're right there with them even with production from guys like Taylor and Barnes.


I almost didn't respond to tim, because I knew I would get this response. I wasn't talking about teams I thought had better offenses than the Cubs, just teams I liked there approach, with the HUGE qualifier from the few times I watch them.

Go back to talking about how Kyle Hendricks is terrible and won't succeed as a starting pitcher. See, it's easy to make someone look stupid, when you misrepresent their view.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:45 pm

Vinestal wrote:
CoolHandLuke wrote:Just shut up.

And leave if you hate it here so much.


This is what I recommend, Iv'e done it and I find life much less stressful. Or do what these guys do, surround yourself with only people who think like yourself and run everyone else of by bullying them. That's what they do here at NSBB. Just stick your head in every now and then to laugh at them from time to time and enjoy the 2 or 3 posters here that have intelligent ideas.

do you pay attention when you're perusing this forum? we horsefeathering argue about literally everything all the time. like for example, just the other day someone was trying to say you weren't a complete [expletive], and I swooped in and showed them just how dumb they were
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Re: John Mallee

Postby woodchip2153 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:50 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubfanintheknow wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Basically, "how do get what we're doing so well in the regular season to work in the postseason?" Well, Mallee is, presumably, a key reason why things work so well in the regular season. Why scrap that for the crapshoot of finding someone who who can handle things as well as he does regarding the regular season in the remote hopes he is also some kind of playoff savant? You're already 90% of the way there with Mallee. Work with the guy who has gotten you this far to see what could be changed or improved instead of starting over.


How much can a player really change their approach from a 162 game regular season to the post season? They're probably used to making minor adjustments during the season, mostly because of pitcher they're facing that day. But I can't imagine it'd be a drastic change for playoff games.


Agreed; I took what Theo said as more of somehow tapping into or focusing on something they've been able to do over the course of the regular season as opposed to having some kind of separate, mythical "playoff mode."


I agree with what you said Mojo. I know you're talking to Leon. But I just wanted to clarify, I named this the Mallee thread, because I assumed the issues with the approach I was talking about were part of his hitting philosophy. I'm happy with Mallee as the hitting coach, and if the front office feels he's the man to make the changes in the teams approach they think need to be made (if any), I have no complaints.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby woodchip2153 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:50 pm

Tim wrote:Anyway, I don't mind Mallee keeping his job at all. I think there's been plenty of successes to justify it. If they had wanted to replace him with someone else, I would have been fine with that, too. As mentioned by others here and in the Bosio thread, I have plenty of confidence in our front office to find good people for those roles.


agree with all of this.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Duke Silver » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:54 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:
Vinestal wrote:
CoolHandLuke wrote:Just shut up.

And leave if you hate it here so much.


This is what I recommend, Iv'e done it and I find life much less stressful. Or do what these guys do, surround yourself with only people who think like yourself and run everyone else of by bullying them. That's what they do here at NSBB. Just stick your head in every now and then to laugh at them from time to time and enjoy the 2 or 3 posters here that have intelligent ideas.

do you pay attention when you're perusing this forum? we horsefeathering argue about literally everything all the time. like for example, just the other day someone was trying to say you weren't a complete [expletive], and I swooped in and showed them just how dumb they were


Also, our discord in following up Mad Men gifs with either Frasier gifs or Seinfeld gifs probably did this team in.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby woodchip2153 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:18 pm

Agony and Ivy wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Harping on Bryant's hangup sometimes when it comes to changeups like it's something that a different hitting coach would address makes no sense. Like, it seems to be complaining like the Cubs haven't noticed this, or likely haven't tried any number of approaches to improve Bryant's approach in that regard. How does that seem logical at all? Sometimes these things just take time for a young player to finally adjust to. Sometimes good players just have holes in their approach. If teams want to try simply challenging him with changeups, hey, got nuts; he'll still annihilate the mistakes.


Changeups are just hard to mimic in a training setting especially MLB caliber ones.


I was an average hitter for the levels I played at (above high school, but not much) and man did I horsefeathering hate changeups. Never recognized them and always swung over top of them. Luckily, the levels I played at were low enough, almost no one had a good change up they could throw consistently.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:26 pm

Duke Silver wrote:
Ding Dong Johnson wrote:
Vinestal wrote:
This is what I recommend, Iv'e done it and I find life much less stressful. Or do what these guys do, surround yourself with only people who think like yourself and run everyone else of by bullying them. That's what they do here at NSBB. Just stick your head in every now and then to laugh at them from time to time and enjoy the 2 or 3 posters here that have intelligent ideas.

do you pay attention when you're perusing this forum? we horsefeathering argue about literally everything all the time. like for example, just the other day someone was trying to say you weren't a complete [expletive], and I swooped in and showed them just how dumb they were


Also, our discord in following up Mad Men gifs with either Frasier gifs or Seinfeld gifs probably did this team in.

I told you [expletive] that Frasier got us there, but nooooooooo. now Bosio and (probably) Mallee are in line at the soup kitchen
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Re: John Mallee

Postby woodchip2153 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:42 pm

I'm going to make one more post to try clarify where I'm coming from.

I realize there is bias in my stance, because I'm more likely to realize/remember when a hitter guessing doesn't work, which is part of the reason why I brought it up to see if anyone felt the same.

I'm not against guessing. It's probably needed to succeed at such a high level. I just thought maybe they guess too much, and this might be exploitable by certain pitchers.

I don't think this is quantifiable, but if someone smarter than me can come up with a possible way, that would be amazing. The only thing I can think of is to see how the Cubs did in PA that go through a certain counts they might be more likely to guess compared to the rest of the league, but that is a terrible idea.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:43 pm

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Re: John Mallee

Postby Tim » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:17 pm

woodchip2153 wrote:I'm going to make one more post to try clarify where I'm coming from.

I realize there is bias in my stance, because I'm more likely to realize/remember when a hitter guessing doesn't work, which is part of the reason why I brought it up to see if anyone felt the same.

I'm not against guessing. It's probably needed to succeed at such a high level. I just thought maybe they guess too much, and this might be exploitable by certain pitchers.

I don't think this is quantifiable, but if someone smarter than me can come up with a possible way, that would be amazing. The only thing I can think of is to see how the Cubs did in PA that go through a certain counts they might be more likely to guess compared to the rest of the league, but that is a terrible idea.

-- edited to add this note: I should have read the entire post before responding. --

I've got to be honest - since this isn't something I'm concerned about, I'm not willing to do the research here. But if I were going to see if I could pick something up in the data, I'd do something along the following lines...

  1. Any persistent pattern for the entire team that was due to a philosophy for the team or instruction for the coach should be measurable, if it is significant enough to matter.
  2. I believe this would show up when they either swing at pitches outside the zone or if they are laying off pitches in the zone (they are guessing on a particular pitch and get fooled)
  3. I'd first look to see where the team ranks in those measurements overall
  4. Then I would look to see where they rank in those metrics when ahead in the count and also when behind in the count to see if they are guessing in particular situations
  5. To try to find some trend, I'd look for extreme differences in behavior in the overall, early in the count and late in the count results

There are a ton of problems with the analysis. First, it is really heavily influenced by the types of hitters we have in the first place. Second, when you start dividing the results by count, it becomes really hard to tell if what you're seeing is just noise or if there is evidence of a real change in approach. Third, it is really difficult to tell if there is a "problem" with the approach or if the problem lies in the execution.

But if I were really interested, I'd take a look at those stats just to see if anything jumped out at me.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby woodchip2153 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:27 pm

Tim wrote:
woodchip2153 wrote:I'm going to make one more post to try clarify where I'm coming from.

I realize there is bias in my stance, because I'm more likely to realize/remember when a hitter guessing doesn't work, which is part of the reason why I brought it up to see if anyone felt the same.

I'm not against guessing. It's probably needed to succeed at such a high level. I just thought maybe they guess too much, and this might be exploitable by certain pitchers.

I don't think this is quantifiable, but if someone smarter than me can come up with a possible way, that would be amazing. The only thing I can think of is to see how the Cubs did in PA that go through a certain counts they might be more likely to guess compared to the rest of the league, but that is a terrible idea.

-- edited to add this note: I should have read the entire post before responding. --

I've got to be honest - since this isn't something I'm concerned about, I'm not willing to do the research here. But if I were going to see if I could pick something up in the data, I'd do something along the following lines...

  1. Any persistent pattern for the entire team that was due to a philosophy for the team or instruction for the coach should be measurable, if it is significant enough to matter.
  2. I believe this would show up when they either swing at pitches outside the zone or if they are laying off pitches in the zone (they are guessing on a particular pitch and get fooled)
  3. I'd first look to see where the team ranks in those measurements overall
  4. Then I would look to see where they rank in those metrics when ahead in the count and also when behind in the count to see if they are guessing in particular situations
  5. To try to find some trend, I'd look for extreme differences in behavior in the overall, early in the count and late in the count results

There are a ton of problems with the analysis. First, it is really heavily influenced by the types of hitters we have in the first place. Second, when you start dividing the results by count, it becomes really hard to tell if what you're seeing is just noise or if there is evidence of a real change in approach. Third, it is really difficult to tell if there is a "problem" with the approach or if the problem lies in the execution.

But if I were really interested, I'd take a look at those stats just to see if anything jumped out at me.


Thanks, now if only I still had my old job, where I did about 2 hours of real work, and could spend the rest of the time doing crap like this.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby TBS Playoffs Insider » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:05 am

im rich and have a big dick fyi
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Brian707 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:36 pm

LeonDurham wrote:Haha. Ok guys. See you later.

You guys don’t know me at all. Yeah I don’t jerk off to baseball prospectus. Hey I have a demanding day job. . But I can assure you I’m not a meatball. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’m way more successful than all you guys. And smarter. Because I wouldn’t go calling people I don’t know meatball because they have a different opinion.


Go cubs. Peace out. ✌️



Holy horsefeathers, a thread about John Mallee is 6 pages long

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Re: John Mallee

Postby Derwood » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:40 pm

I still think this LeonDurham guy used to have another user name. His posting style is very familiar
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Gmoney08 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:27 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubfanintheknow wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Basically, "how do get what we're doing so well in the regular season to work in the postseason?" Well, Mallee is, presumably, a key reason why things work so well in the regular season. Why scrap that for the crapshoot of finding someone who who can handle things as well as he does regarding the regular season in the remote hopes he is also some kind of playoff savant? You're already 90% of the way there with Mallee. Work with the guy who has gotten you this far to see what could be changed or improved instead of starting over.


How much can a player really change their approach from a 162 game regular season to the post season? They're probably used to making minor adjustments during the season, mostly because of pitcher they're facing that day. But I can't imagine it'd be a drastic change for playoff games.


Agreed; I took what Theo said as more of somehow tapping into or focusing on something they've been able to do over the course of the regular season as opposed to having some kind of separate, mythical "playoff mode."


Theo also mentioned in his words we faced historically great pitching in the playoffs.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby David » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:33 pm

Derwood wrote:I still think this LeonDurham guy used to have another user name. His posting style is very familiar


Felix Leiter maybe?
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Gmoney08 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:35 pm

woodchip2153 wrote:
Agony and Ivy wrote:
bd811 wrote:
the brewers rank in the bottom half of baseball in every meaningful offensive category except BB%, where they're 11th. let's cross them off the list of teams to emulate.


Holy horsefeathers another Vaunted Brewers truther? THE BREWERS horsefeathering SUCK. The Astros were historically good so if that's your bar you're going to be massively disappointed. The Diamondbacks? Get the horsefeathers out of here, they're not close to being as good as the Cubs. The Indians should probably fire everyone too because they didn't even make it out of the DS this year so they're clearly hopeless. The Dodgers got career years out of something called Chris Taylor and Austin Barnes. They'll be awesome again next year but we're right there with them even with production from guys like Taylor and Barnes.


I almost didn't respond to tim, because I knew I would get this response. I wasn't talking about teams I thought had better offenses than the Cubs, just teams I liked there approach, with the HUGE qualifier from the few times I watch them.

Go back to talking about how Kyle Hendricks is terrible and won't succeed as a starting pitcher. See, it's easy to make someone look stupid, when you misrepresent their view.


The Brewers set them MLB record for getting struck out this year without walking or getting on base nearly as much as the Cubs.

This the reactions or this forum if we had the Brewers offensive approach at the plate would be quite hilarious though.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby ConstableRabbit » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:57 pm

Hinske to Angels as hitting coach.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby woodchip2153 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:39 pm

Gmoney08 wrote:
woodchip2153 wrote:
Agony and Ivy wrote:
Holy horsefeathers another Vaunted Brewers truther? THE BREWERS horsefeathering SUCK. The Astros were historically good so if that's your bar you're going to be massively disappointed. The Diamondbacks? Get the horsefeathers out of here, they're not close to being as good as the Cubs. The Indians should probably fire everyone too because they didn't even make it out of the DS this year so they're clearly hopeless. The Dodgers got career years out of something called Chris Taylor and Austin Barnes. They'll be awesome again next year but we're right there with them even with production from guys like Taylor and Barnes.


I almost didn't respond to tim, because I knew I would get this response. I wasn't talking about teams I thought had better offenses than the Cubs, just teams I liked there approach, with the HUGE qualifier from the few times I watch them.

Go back to talking about how Kyle Hendricks is terrible and won't succeed as a starting pitcher. See, it's easy to make someone look stupid, when you misrepresent their view.


The Brewers set them MLB record for getting struck out this year without walking or getting on base nearly as much as the Cubs.

This the reactions or this forum if we had the Brewers offensive approach at the plate would be quite hilarious though.


This was only based on a handful of games I watched the Brewers (not against the Cubs), and probably heavily influenced by the fact I expect the Brewers hitters to be over matched, so the good at bats stuck out, instead of the opposite for the Cubs.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby craig » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:21 pm

woodchip2153 wrote:I'm going to make one more post to try clarify where I'm coming from.

I realize there is bias in my stance, because I'm more likely to realize/remember when a hitter guessing doesn't work, which is part of the reason why I brought it up to see if anyone felt the same.

I'm not against guessing. It's probably needed to succeed at such a high level. I just thought maybe they guess too much, and this might be exploitable by certain pitchers.

I don't think this is quantifiable, but if someone smarter than me can come up with a possible way, that would be amazing. The only thing I can think of is to see how the Cubs did in PA that go through a certain counts they might be more likely to guess compared to the rest of the league, but that is a terrible idea.


1. I think the question of whether or not the Cubs "guess-hit" more than is optimal, or usual, is a good and fascinating question.
2. As Tim followed up, it would be interesting, and difficult, to try to quantify that.
3. I agree that I'm fine with what management decides, whether to keep Mallee or make a switch.

4. I hypothesize that guess-hitting might be less effective against better pitchers? The more good pitches that a pitcher has to choose from, probably the less chance to guess correctly? Might be a lot easier to guess correctly from a Reds pitcher than from a Dodger?

5. I think Baez is a major guess-hitter.
6. Agree with point that we tend to remember the "bad guesses".

7. Cubs have invested their developmental draft picks and resources into players, not pitchers. When the team philosophy has prioritized players, then if the team is going to be the best in baseball, it might depend on the hitting being the best in baseball.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:43 pm

Baez is the guess-iest guess-hitter who ever guessed.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby woodchip2153 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:01 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Baez is the guess-iest guess-hitter who ever guessed.


yep, but because I don't think he has the pitch recognition skills, I don't mind it from him.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:13 pm

woodchip2153 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Baez is the guess-iest guess-hitter who ever guessed.


yep, but because I don't think he has the pitch recognition skills, I don't mind it from him.


Yeah, if he can make it work, great. It just cracks me up how it seems like most of the time when he actually takes a pitch it seems like he made the decision to do so, like, 10 minutes before he even stepped to the plate.
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Re: John Mallee

Postby weis21 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:09 pm

David wrote:
LeonDurham wrote:Haha. Ok guys. See you later.

You guys don’t know me at all. Yeah I don’t jerk off to baseball prospectus. Hey I have a demanding day job. . But I can assure you I’m not a meatball. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’m way more successful than all you guys. And smarter. Because I wouldn’t go calling people I don’t know meatball because they have a different opinion.


Go cubs. Peace out. ✌️


And you probably get better gals than us too!

i'll be the judge of that thank you very much


and i did used to live in a parents basement but it was because my ex's parents were both bedridden with medical issues and i did things like cook and clean and do errands for them. what a dork lol
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Re: John Mallee

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:16 pm

So I guess Mallee(and Gary Jones) are gone?

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