Chris Bosio Fired

User avatar
David
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 58388
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:33 am
Location: Chicago
x 5659
x 3421

Re: Bob Nightengale: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby David » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:20 pm

aside from hickey, mike maddux should be available. and then there's warthen (lol)
0 x
Image

The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.

User avatar
Transmogrified Tiger
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 54246
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:23 pm
Location: Greater St. Louis
x 290
x 3958

Re: Bob Nightengale: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:24 pm

Duke Silver wrote:I'm honestly not sure how much affect hitting and pitching coaches have. I think having good organizational approaches is important. And it's obviously better to have a pitching coach who is more knowledgeable. But all of that work is done behind the scenes, so it's hard for us to know exactly how significant a coach's impact is. You can look at results, but that's a fool's errand.


This is going to sound like a rationalization, and to a certain extent it is, but I think the variability of pitchers leads to pitching coaches getting a bit more credit than they deserve. I mean think of the pitching coaches that many fans are aware of for their success outside their own team. Off the top of my head I can list off Bosio, Rothschild, Searage, Cooper, Warthen, Maddux, past guys like Duncan and Black. On the other hand I don't think I could name 3 MLB hitting coaches.
2 x

User avatar
David
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 58388
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:33 am
Location: Chicago
x 5659
x 3421

Re: Bob Nightengale: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby David » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:26 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Duke Silver wrote:I'm honestly not sure how much affect hitting and pitching coaches have. I think having good organizational approaches is important. And it's obviously better to have a pitching coach who is more knowledgeable. But all of that work is done behind the scenes, so it's hard for us to know exactly how significant a coach's impact is. You can look at results, but that's a fool's errand.


This is going to sound like a rationalization, and to a certain extent it is, but I think the variability of pitchers leads to pitching coaches getting a bit more credit than they deserve. I mean think of the pitching coaches that many fans are aware of for their success outside their own team. Off the top of my head I can list off Bosio, Rothschild, Searage, Cooper, Warthen, Maddux, past guys like Duncan and Black. On the other hand I don't think I could name 3 MLB hitting coaches.


Surprised you didn't include Mazzone. First time I remember a pitching coach being a thing.
0 x
Image

The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.

User avatar
jersey cubs fan
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 56328
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Hoboken squat cobbler
x 1553
x 5051

Re: Bob Nightengale: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby jersey cubs fan » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:38 pm

davell wrote:Am I imagining it or did Maddon just say a few days ago that he wanted everyone back? Could have swore he said that.

Theo said joe would get to keep any coach he wanted.
0 x
longhotsummer wrote:I realize now, any opposing viewpoint, will not be tolerated.

User avatar
Duke Silver
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 9090
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:45 am
x 8231
x 5399

Re: Bob Nightengale: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Duke Silver » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:38 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Duke Silver wrote:I'm honestly not sure how much affect hitting and pitching coaches have. I think having good organizational approaches is important. And it's obviously better to have a pitching coach who is more knowledgeable. But all of that work is done behind the scenes, so it's hard for us to know exactly how significant a coach's impact is. You can look at results, but that's a fool's errand.


This is going to sound like a rationalization, and to a certain extent it is, but I think the variability of pitchers leads to pitching coaches getting a bit more credit than they deserve. I mean think of the pitching coaches that many fans are aware of for their success outside their own team. Off the top of my head I can list off Bosio, Rothschild, Searage, Cooper, Warthen, Maddux, past guys like Duncan and Black. On the other hand I don't think I could name 3 MLB hitting coaches.


Yeah, and I may be way off. It could be that Bosio is a Pitching Whisperer that is able to transform guys and I just don't understand everything he's done to make our staff better. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because there have been a number of guys who have had dormant potential unearthed under his tutelage. There's also Edwin Jaxon, though.

But I think it's just something that is hard for any of us to understand fully. So I never get too worked up about coaching changes.
0 x

User avatar
minnesotacubsfan
Superstar
Posts: 14830
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: da Salish Sea
x 223
x 297

Re: Bob Nightengale: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:43 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:Refresh mu memory: what did Bisio say about molina?


He carried on about how the ball sticking to his chest protector was cheating, and also suggested the fix was in with the signs behind home plate (recall Baez losing a ground ball in them)



Hahaha

I dont remember him saying that, but i love it. I do remember both those things happening
0 x
Image

User avatar
Tim
Hall of Fame
Posts: 43694
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: Naperville, IL
x 61
x 1534
Contact:

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Tim » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:43 pm

I would have felt much worse about this after last year. But we finished 24th in BB% as a pitching staff. Part of that is the guys on the staff. But it also didn't feel like anyone took a step forward this year and several guys took a step back. Maybe it was time for a new voice.

I'd be happy if Bosio was back. But I'm fine with the change because I have faith that our FO will identify a very solid guy as the replacement.
0 x
Spoiler: show

Image

User avatar
David
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 58388
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:33 am
Location: Chicago
x 5659
x 3421

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby David » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:46 pm

These were Theo's comments on Bernstein and Goff a few days ago (before Game 5) that had me suspecting this might be a possibility.

“We need to take ownership of that,” Epstein said on the Bernstein and Goff Show specifically of Wilson’s struggles before turning his attention to the issue at large. “Something hasn’t gone right. He’s more than doubled his walk rate with us. And frankly, that’s been a theme with our pen. I mean, the headline with our pen is ‘Good regular season, real tough postseason.’ But in both the regular season and the postseason, we just walked far too many guys. I think we’ve walked 26 guys (this series). Our bullpen walked over 10 percent of the batters it faced this year, which was 30th in baseball. We were 26th the year before that. It’s been kind of across the board. Of our 10 relievers that have thrown the most innings this year (for us), eight of them have walked way more guys than they have traditionally and the other two are right at their averages.

“It’s sort of systemic across the board. So we have to find a way to address that going forward, and we will. Some of it is obviously personnel based, and it will be important for us to bring in some reliable strike throwers going forward out of the pen. And then some of it is sort of we have to ask ourselves hard questions, if maybe we’re not being quite aggressive enough in certain counts, in 2-1 counts. Are we still trying to pitch to chase and getting us in trouble? I don’t know. I know our pitching infrastructure is awesome, and I love them and we do so many things right. But I think the fact that it’s been two years in a row where we haven’t really thrown strikes and that most of our relievers have taken a step back with their strike throwing, that falls on me. We got to find a way to fix it through personnel and also looking at our approach a little bit.”


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/10/19/ ... n-bullpen/
0 x
Image

The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.

User avatar
David
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 58388
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:33 am
Location: Chicago
x 5659
x 3421

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby David » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:48 pm

1 x
Image

The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.

User avatar
Wilson A2000
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 9769
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:11 am
Location: Chicago
x 1
x 14

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Wilson A2000 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:34 pm

I don’t have any stats to back this up, but outside of Davis (who has always had great secondary stuff), had Bosio developed any great secondary pitches with the pen? Montgomery might be the exception, but everyone else’s secondary pitches just seem to be average. And when you don’t trust them, you nibble with the fastball as they did in the playoffs.

I had a feeling that Bosio would be gone due to pitching regression and the comments he got suspended for, but the pen pitched what, 120+ more innings this year compared to their workload last year. That will wear you down.

It was Joe’s call, but is that normal for the manager to have the power to pick all the coaches?
0 x

User avatar
David
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 58388
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:33 am
Location: Chicago
x 5659
x 3421

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby David » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:37 pm

Wilson A2000 wrote:I don’t have any stats to back this up, but outside of Davis (who has always had great secondary stuff), had Bosio developed any great secondary pitches with the pen? Montgomery might be the exception, but everyone else’s secondary pitches just seem to be average. And when you don’t trust them, you nibble with the fastball as they did in the playoffs.

I had a feeling that Bosio would be gone due to pitching regression and the comments he got suspended for, but the pen pitched what, 120+ more innings this year compared to their workload last year. That will wear you down.

It was Joe’s call, but is that normal for the manager to have the power to pick all the coaches?


my inclination is that it'd be more abnormal for him not to, with a few exceptions. by and large, i think managers pick their staff. especially ones with any sort of cachet.

but i also don't think this as just a joe maddon decision. theo could have wanted him out while still leaving it up to joe.
Last edited by David on Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
Image

The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.

User avatar
TomtheBombadil
All-Star
Posts: 4349
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 162
x 258

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:40 pm

Overrated as a muh anyway
0 x

User avatar
Banedon
Curse You!
Posts: 63790
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:36 pm
Location: Kidding Myself
x 2912
x 3109

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Banedon » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:46 pm

I'm definitely surprised, but the more I think about it, the more it makes some sense. Lester had a lot of struggles this season that weren't able to be quickly fixed. Arrieta had a year of being the most dominant pitchers in the game before falling back to being very up and down from game to game. Justin Wilson's troubles are obvious, and nearly everyone in the bullpen this year regressed from the year before...(he says without looking up the stats that probably disagree).

It might be a situation where they just need a fresh look and a new voice.
0 x
Image

User avatar
minnesotacubsfan
Superstar
Posts: 14830
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: da Salish Sea
x 223
x 297

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:48 pm

Arrieta had two amazing seasons, but id agree with you Banedon
0 x
Image

User avatar
Enn Tea
All-Star
Posts: 3387
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:03 pm
Location: South Florida
x 31
x 149

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Enn Tea » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:57 pm

Theo and friends were apparently pretty pissed at him for calling Thames a roider. That, plus the comments on Molina and the signs at Busch might have been enough to fire him. Plus the bullpen struggles, and Hickey being available. I dont like it but I dont really care either, pitching coaches are pretty replaceable.
0 x

User avatar
David
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 58388
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:33 am
Location: Chicago
x 5659
x 3421

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby David » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:00 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:Arrieta had two amazing seasons, but id agree with you Banedon


yeah, a lot of people still don't realize jake was god mode in 2014
0 x
Image

The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.

Gmoney08
All-Star
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:08 am
x 79
x 153

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Gmoney08 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:02 pm

Not sure I love this but we can just make professor Hendrix teach everyone the cutter now anyways.
0 x

User avatar
Cubswin11
Superstar
Posts: 16930
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm
x 1940
x 1996

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:04 pm

This also could be simpler that it’s a Maddon/Renteria situation. They were perfectly fine with Bosio but a much better coach became available in Hickey so they are doing whatever it takes to add him.
0 x
Screw Pitchers

User avatar
Transmogrified Tiger
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 54246
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:23 pm
Location: Greater St. Louis
x 290
x 3958

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:05 pm



0 x

CaliforniaRaisin
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 88436
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:20 pm
Location: Pasadena, CA
x 396
x 1657

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby CaliforniaRaisin » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:10 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:



If that's the case, there aren't too many organizations better than the Rays in developing pitchers. Admittedly, I'm not sure how much credit Hickey deserves for that.
1 x
Image

User avatar
TomtheBombadil
All-Star
Posts: 4349
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 162
x 258

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:24 pm

Maybe one of the two guys from the Indians? That seems like a lot of work so probably Hickey
0 x

User avatar
Cubswin11
Superstar
Posts: 16930
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm
x 1940
x 1996

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Cubswin11 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:28 pm

If it is Hickey I wonder if that means they’d really go hard after Cobb or McGee in FA or Odorizzi in a trade.
0 x
Screw Pitchers

User avatar
TomtheBombadil
All-Star
Posts: 4349
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 162
x 258

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:29 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:If it is Hickey I wonder if that means they’d really go hard after Cobb or McGee in FA or Odorizzi in a trade.


Just get Archer please via trade

Edit: So my reading comprehension is way off, though yeah in any trade they should aim higher than Odorizzi. McGee and Cobb should be serious FA targets, especially McGee
0 x

Pushfrog98
All-Star
Posts: 2977
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: St. Louis
x 125
x 20

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Pushfrog98 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:42 pm

I kinda wish we still had Derek Johnson in the system...
0 x

Bryant's Disco Ball
All-Star
Posts: 4650
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:34 am
Location: Formerly PleasewinCubs
x 1
x 344

Re: Chris Bosio Fired

Postby Bryant's Disco Ball » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:51 pm

I'd hire Otani's pitching coach and call it a day.
4 x
Not saying it will happen, but the Cubs coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win the World Series does seem like the appropriate way to cap off this season and make the 30-for-30 even better.


Return to “Cubs Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests