General Cubs Chit-Chat

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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:33 am

Gmoney08 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
I still dont think the game has caught up to Theo. He has evolved before. I think there is ebbs and flows to building a franchise and all FO will make some mistakes. If we have a few year spiral where Theo and company add on with even more mistakee then Ill agree that maybe be lost it.

Only time.will tell.



So you need a few more years AFTER the last two years? And I thought we were the idiots talking about him being terrible for five years in a row.


Yeah call me crazy for not wanting to kick him to the curb after an injury riddled 95 win season.

I trust his track record and his general intelligence. He has built at 3 to 4 phenomenal cores in 17 years. Even if this one tanks I would give the dude another shot to build another core.


Who was saying fire him after last year?

Though that said, you put the caveat of last season being the result of injuries, and now they're cruising in for about an 88 win season.

And the guy is signed with the Cubs for, what, 2 more seasons? All of his talk is how he's likely outta here after 10 years. He's going to need to stumble on a LOT of good picks and international signings in short order to right the ship before he goes.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:35 am

Gmoney08 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
Well you have plenty of goofy takes so why would I assume otherwise.

Also considering Laurel is synomous with past achievements and awards, aka legacy in baseball.. it would seem your quote was in direct argument to his overall legacy?


Yes, again, I'm saying Epstein is in a position where he can't effectively just ride out his success to the end of his tenure with the Cubs.


Sure that isnt how you phrased it.


Theo's much closer to making yet another costumed getaway than being able to do some laurel-resting.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby squally1313 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:36 am

Gmoney08 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
I still dont think the game has caught up to Theo. He has evolved before. I think there is ebbs and flows to building a franchise and all FO will make some mistakes. If we have a few year spiral where Theo and company add on with even more mistakee then Ill agree that maybe be lost it.

Only time.will tell.



So you need a few more years AFTER the last two years? And I thought we were the idiots talking about him being terrible for five years in a row.


Yeah call me crazy for not wanting to kick him to the curb after an injury riddled 95 win season.

I trust his track record and his general intelligence. He has built at 3 to 4 phenomenal cores in 17 years. Even if this one tanks I would give the dude another shot to build another core.


Well I think the bigger picture that was touched on briefly is that people around here have grown a lot less fond of the guy who has brought in Chapman, Murphy, and kept Russell around.

Beyond that, you can't really point to a lot that he's done in the last couple years that have added to the short term or long term success of this club. The Darvish signing remains a miss, as was the Chatwood signing, as was the Morrow signing. Going into this season with that bullpen, with that bench, was a miss. He came through and got Castellanos, which is looking like a big pickup, but we're going to have to keep the pedal down through the end of September just to make the playoffs.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Gmoney08 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:36 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:

So you need a few more years AFTER the last two years? And I thought we were the idiots talking about him being terrible for five years in a row.


Yeah call me crazy for not wanting to kick him to the curb after an injury riddled 95 win season.

I trust his track record and his general intelligence. He has built at 3 to 4 phenomenal cores in 17 years. Even if this one tanks I would give the dude another shot to build another core.


Who was saying fire him after last year?

Though that said, you put the caveat of last season being the result of injuries, and now they're cruising in for about an 88 win season.

And the guy is signed with the Cubs for, what, 2 more seasons? All of his talk is how he's likely outta here after 10 years. He's going to need to stumble on a LOT of good picks and international signings in short order to right the ship before he goes.


I said Id need a few more years to make a statement the game has caught up to Theo. Id still bet money on him being elite. If we dont have any influx of talent the next few years then I might jump aboard the "game caught up" quote.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:38 am

squally1313 wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:

So you need a few more years AFTER the last two years? And I thought we were the idiots talking about him being terrible for five years in a row.


Yeah call me crazy for not wanting to kick him to the curb after an injury riddled 95 win season.

I trust his track record and his general intelligence. He has built at 3 to 4 phenomenal cores in 17 years. Even if this one tanks I would give the dude another shot to build another core.


Well I think the bigger picture that was touched on briefly is that people around here have grown a lot less fond of the guy who has brought in Chapman, Murphy, and kept Russell around.

Beyond that, you can't really point to a lot that he's done in the last couple years that have added to the short term or long term success of this club. The Darvish signing remains a miss, as was the Chatwood signing, as was the Morrow signing. Going into this season with that bullpen, with that bench, was a miss. He came through and got Castellanos, which is looking like a big pickup, but we're going to have to keep the pedal down through the end of September just to make the playoffs.


Hell, even something like trading for Castellanos should have been something they looked to do before this season. IMO, going into the season with this OF is almost as bad as going into it with the bullpen and bench. Trading for him and signing Kimbrel should be the type of moves we expect them to do earlier, and not scrambling to just stay alive.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Gmoney08 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:40 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Yes, again, I'm saying Epstein is in a position where he can't effectively just ride out his success to the end of his tenure with the Cubs.


Sure that isnt how you phrased it.


Theo's much closer to making yet another costumed getaway than being able to do some laurel-resting.


Not going to dissect this whole thing again but Ill keep it simple.

Yes, Theo can rest on his laurels and achievements.

No, the Cubs org should not.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby badger » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:43 am

I like politics and sjw mojo way more than Cubs eeyore mojo.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Gmoney08 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:46 am

squally1313 wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:

So you need a few more years AFTER the last two years? And I thought we were the idiots talking about him being terrible for five years in a row.


Yeah call me crazy for not wanting to kick him to the curb after an injury riddled 95 win season.

I trust his track record and his general intelligence. He has built at 3 to 4 phenomenal cores in 17 years. Even if this one tanks I would give the dude another shot to build another core.


Beyond that, you can't really point to a lot that he's done in the last couple years that have added to the short term or long term success of this club.


Agreed the last two years have not been his greatest, but that isnt a sample size large enough for me to start saying they arent an elite FO or that they should be replaced.

And again we are right in the thick or the playoff race. The stated goal or this FO office has always been continued success where we are always in the playoff picture. Statistics have always shown baseball playoffs as a crapshoot, the key is getting in as much as possible. Some years you will curbstomp teams with 100+ wins, some years you might sneak in with 88 wins (hopefully this year). Some years you might miss altogether (Red Sox this year, maybe Cubs). But be in and around the dance as much as possible and you are setting yourself up for success.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:49 am

badger wrote:I like politics and sjw mojo way more than Cubs eeyore mojo.


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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby squally1313 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:53 am

badger wrote:I like politics and sjw mojo way more than Cubs eeyore mojo.

I usually butt heads with Cubs eeyore mojo, but when it comes to Theo (and the rest of the front office), I'm pretty down on them too. I want a Gavin Lux, a Forrest Whitley, a Yordan Alvarez, a Kyle Tucker, a Dustin May, a Keibert Ruiz. I wanted them to somehow see something that would have shown the Heyward/Darvish/Chatwood deals were mistakes...I sure didn't, but I'm not an elite GM. I wanted them to actually care about the character of their players, and not just claim to care to put out a good sound bite.

He got us what we all wanted. He'll go down as the greatest GM in Cubs history for that alone, and for this whole run. But it could have, and probably should have, been a lot better.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby squally1313 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:56 am

Gmoney08 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
Yeah call me crazy for not wanting to kick him to the curb after an injury riddled 95 win season.

I trust his track record and his general intelligence. He has built at 3 to 4 phenomenal cores in 17 years. Even if this one tanks I would give the dude another shot to build another core.


Beyond that, you can't really point to a lot that he's done in the last couple years that have added to the short term or long term success of this club.


Agreed the last two years have not been his greatest, but that isnt a sample size large enough for me to start saying they arent an elite FO or that they should be replaced.

And again we are right in the thick or the playoff race. The stated goal or this FO office has always been continued success where we are always in the playoff picture. Statistics have always shown baseball playoffs as a crapshoot, the key is getting in as much as possible. Some years you will curbstomp teams with 100+ wins, some years you might sneak in with 88 wins (hopefully this year). Some years you might miss altogether (Red Sox this year, maybe Cubs). But be in and around the dance as much as possible and you are setting yourself up for success.


I'm fine with being the second best team in the NL, and taking our shot against the Dodgers every year. Hell, I'm not even going to stress about the Braves. But we should not be struggling against the Brewers and the Cardinals to avoid the wild card game, for two years in a row now.

I get that the wildcard game is the postseason, technically. To me, we missed the playoffs last year, so the whole 'getting in as much as possible' thing didn't work there. Maybe that's not fair, but whatever.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Gmoney08 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:01 am

squally1313 wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Beyond that, you can't really point to a lot that he's done in the last couple years that have added to the short term or long term success of this club.


Agreed the last two years have not been his greatest, but that isnt a sample size large enough for me to start saying they arent an elite FO or that they should be replaced.

And again we are right in the thick or the playoff race. The stated goal or this FO office has always been continued success where we are always in the playoff picture. Statistics have always shown baseball playoffs as a crapshoot, the key is getting in as much as possible. Some years you will curbstomp teams with 100+ wins, some years you might sneak in with 88 wins (hopefully this year). Some years you might miss altogether (Red Sox this year, maybe Cubs). But be in and around the dance as much as possible and you are setting yourself up for success.


I'm fine with being the second best team in the NL, and taking our shot against the Dodgers every year. Hell, I'm not even going to stress about the Braves. But we should not be struggling against the Brewers and the Cardinals to avoid the wild card game, for two years in a row now.

I get that the wildcard game is the postseason, technically. To me, we missed the playoffs last year, so the whole 'getting in as much as possible' thing didn't work there. Maybe that's not fair, but whatever.


I agree. Would like more dominance of the division. Still trust Theo in charge.

More worried in Ricketts pulling the purse strings back than Theo continuing to make mistakes.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Tim » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:45 am

CyHawk_Cub wrote:You guys are selling mojo short. He's been insufferable for way longer than 2 years.





just kidding, mojo

I like Mojo, but he has been insufferable from his first day here.

You know, at times.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Bertz » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:49 am

I think Theo is pretty clearly still a well above average GM. That being said, the difference between the best and worst FO's is shrinking rapidly, and in our market we'll always be able to attract someone from the top half of the pool. Given that, I completely understand If someone wanted to kick Theo to the curb as penance for the Russell stuff.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby TMan92 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:19 am

This one is a good listen.

https://www.radio.com/media/audio-chann ... eck-hour-1

Castellanos is a pretty great dude. Also, while we give Joe a lot of crap, he gets the people part and that can't be underestimated.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:22 am

TMan92 wrote:This one is a good listen.

https://www.radio.com/media/audio-chann ... eck-hour-1

Castellanos is a pretty great dude. Also, while we give Joe a lot of crap, he gets the people part and that can't be underestimated.

I agree. He cannot be underestimated.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby CubColtPacer » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:03 am

squally1313 wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Beyond that, you can't really point to a lot that he's done in the last couple years that have added to the short term or long term success of this club.


Agreed the last two years have not been his greatest, but that isnt a sample size large enough for me to start saying they arent an elite FO or that they should be replaced.

And again we are right in the thick or the playoff race. The stated goal or this FO office has always been continued success where we are always in the playoff picture. Statistics have always shown baseball playoffs as a crapshoot, the key is getting in as much as possible. Some years you will curbstomp teams with 100+ wins, some years you might sneak in with 88 wins (hopefully this year). Some years you might miss altogether (Red Sox this year, maybe Cubs). But be in and around the dance as much as possible and you are setting yourself up for success.


I'm fine with being the second best team in the NL, and taking our shot against the Dodgers every year. Hell, I'm not even going to stress about the Braves. But we should not be struggling against the Brewers and the Cardinals to avoid the wild card game, for two years in a row now.

I get that the wildcard game is the postseason, technically. To me, we missed the playoffs last year, so the whole 'getting in as much as possible' thing didn't work there. Maybe that's not fair, but whatever.


To be fair, last year they finished with the 2nd best record in the National League, so they hit your goal. It just happened that the best team record wise was in their division.

This year of course is completely different.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Banedon » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:35 pm

badger wrote:I like politics and sjw mojo way more than Cubs eeyore mojo.


Oh man I really wish the custom ranks were working.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Brian » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:41 pm

I found this surprising ...



I checked a couple of teams, Turner needs 3 and the Dodgers join the list, Tatis also needs 3 to get the Padres in.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby cl smooth » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:49 pm

Brian wrote:I found this surprising ...



I checked a couple of teams, Turner needs 3 and the Dodgers join the list, Tatis also needs 3 to get the Padres in.


live look-in at fernando tatis jr:

Image

he's broken. 25 home runs for him ain't gonna happen.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby soccer10k » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:13 pm

Brian wrote:I found this surprising ...



I checked a couple of teams, Turner needs 3 and the Dodgers join the list, Tatis also needs 3 to get the Padres in.


Twins have 3 plus two more guys with 23 and another with 20. Houston has 3 and another with 23.

For us, Willy has 19 and Heyward has 18.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Brian » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:39 pm

Castellanos also has 18 if we're counting AL
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby badger » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:26 pm

TMan92 wrote:This one is a good listen.

https://www.radio.com/media/audio-chann ... eck-hour-1

Castellanos is a pretty great dude. Also, while we give Joe a lot of crap, he gets the people part and that can't be underestimated.


Just listened. seems awesome.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:30 pm

I know the run environment is different but it's still kinda crazy how close this years offense is to 2016's (2B is the only big one that there's a huge drop this year).

2019: .253/.332/.451, .783 OPS, 100 wRC+, 9.6% BB rate, 23.6% K rate

2016: .256/.343/.429, .772 OPS, 106 wRC+, 10.4% BB rate, 21.1% K rate


Kris Bryant 2019: .286/.385/.529, 136 wRC+, 11.7% BB rate, 21.3% K rate 2016: .292/.385/.554, 148 wRC+, 10.7% BB rate, 22% K rate

Anthony Rizzo 2019: .288/.400/.528, 140 WRC+, 11.8% BB rate, 14.5% K rate 2016: .292/.385/.544, 145 wRC+, 10.9% BB rate, 16% K rate

2019 OF: .259/.341/.468, 107 wRC+, 10.4% BB, 21.5% K, 2016 OF: .266/.360/.444, 116 wRC+, 11.0% BB, 19.3 K

2019 SS: .285/.315/.541, 114 wRC+, 4.4% BB, 27.5% K 2016 SS: .285/.321/.417, 95 wRC+, 9.2% BB, 22.6% K

2019 2B: .233/.320/.381, 82 wRC+, 11% BB, 24.9% k 2016 2B: .274/.358/.445, 113 wRC+, 10.4% BB, 17.6% K

2019 C: .260/.353/.470, 112 wRC+, 10.8% BB, 23.6% K 2016 C: .242/.336/.422, 110 wRC+, 11.8% bb, 23.7% K

The pitching is a notch lower than it was in 2016, especially on the results based metrics like ERA. But it's not THAT far off from some of the other metrics and it’s probably somewhat due to run environment and defense being all time in 2016 and good but not great this year.

2019 SP: 4.00 ERA, 4.14 FIP, 4.21 xFIP, 8.76 K/9, 2.63 BB/9 2016 SP: 2.96 ERA, 3.72 FIP, 3.76 xFIP, 8.39 K/9, 2.69 BB/9

2019 BP: 4.13 ERA, 4.62 FIP, 4.41 xFIP, 8.81 K/9, 4.07 BB/9, 2016 BP: 3.56 ERA, 3.87 FIP, 3.72 xFIP, 9.92 K/9, 3.81 BB/9


Not trying to make any real point, just found it interesting the offense numbers especially are close to 2016.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Brian » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:00 pm

Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.
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