General Cubs Chit-Chat

TomtheBombadil
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:02 pm

Gmoney08 wrote:I still dont think the game has caught up to Theo. He has evolved before. I think there is ebbs and flows to building a franchise and all FO will make some mistakes. If we have a few year spiral where Theo and company add on with even more mistakee then Ill agree that maybe be lost it.

Only time.will tell.


Yeah, I was in the "clearly everyone caught up to Theo" camp for a while but then all the big teams passed on the 2018 offseason. Turns out the owners are at least as disgusting and sinister as their daddies and granddaddies, not that those guys aren't mostly alive, while still being able to hide in plain sight.

I make fun of the dual fronts thing but it's not a coincidence that their farm fell as the ML club peaked and is climbing as that Bryant/Rizzo/Baez led wave hits their late 20s and get closer to FA. The 2015 IFA class, who missed all the fanfare of 2013-2015 Cubs bat prospects by like ten minutes, are turning out to be a clinic as they collectively climb through the minors. I'm a huge fan of how they've marketed the farm (suddenly we love pitchers and you should love our pitchers, the first five years with all the bats were the ruse) as they restock on bats and maybe even find a pitcher or two. His early Cubs drafts basically changed the way the top ten and first round of the draft goes (buzz off college pitchers, they get like one a year in the top 10 lately). They bought the right player for the right price at the deadline and shopped like a team who knows no one has any feel for their farm system except the Tigers for some reason. No one seems to care but Cubs pitchers stay pretty damn healthy for pitchers and they're super progressive on finding alternates to surgery (one of those right-side-of-history things probably) while being slow to send guys under the knife. Ian Happ apparently came back from AAA a man. Darvish is evolving into Old Man RH Power Pitcher with the splitter coming into play more and more....There'd be so much to love if everything wasn't framed by the full court press owners are putting on players, the union, and increasingly non-MLB talent/employees because it's best to go after their money even earlier
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TomtheBombadil
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:03 pm

Ooph, did not want that rambling nonsense on a fresh page....boooo but its staying
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby PackLandVA » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:09 pm

Brian wrote:Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.


Who?
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby cl smooth » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:23 pm

Brian wrote:Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.


artist rendition of the brandon morrow era:

Image
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Bull » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:25 pm

PackLandVA wrote:
Brian wrote:Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.


Who?

Theo Epstein. He’s the guy that runs the Cubs and says things.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Andy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:38 pm

cl smooth wrote:
Brian wrote:Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.


artist rendition of the brandon morrow era:

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I have no idea who we might have used that $10M on, but I'm gonna be pissed about that signing probably forever.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby soccer10k » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:47 pm

Andy wrote:
cl smooth wrote:
Brian wrote:Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.


artist rendition of the brandon morrow era:

Image

I have no idea who we might have used that $10M on, but I'm gonna be pissed about that signing probably forever.


It allowed us to see something we’ve never seen before - a pitcher being unavailable the day after throwing only two pitches in a game. That was the game against the Marlins that went like 16 innings last year where Maddon had him warm up 4 times in the bullpen before coming in.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Janelle-Alexis » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:53 pm

cl smooth wrote:
Brian wrote:Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.


artist rendition of the brandon morrow era:

Image


$172,181 per batter faced
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:57 pm

I still think it was a solid signing and the risk was reflected in the price. He put up .7 fWAR and 1.4 bWAR last year. He probably gets hurt along the way at some point anyways but we also know Maddon (in New York) went against the usage rules/plan on him and the medical staff didn’t do the proper scan on him (like Darvish) until much longer after he was hurt to find out what was wrong.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby TMan92 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:55 pm

Janelle-Alexis wrote:
cl smooth wrote:
Brian wrote:Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.


artist rendition of the brandon morrow era:

Image


$172,181 per batter faced


Insurance will help. His usage by the Dodgers is what killed him in my opinion.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:11 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:I'm a huge fan of how they've marketed the farm (suddenly we love pitchers and you should love our pitchers, the first five years with all the bats were the ruse) as they restock on bats and maybe even find a pitcher or two.


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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby PackLandVA » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:23 am

Bull wrote:
PackLandVA wrote:
Brian wrote:Morrow officially out for the year per Theo.


Who?

Theo Epstein. He’s the guy that runs the Cubs and says things.


The first one. Morrow?
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby ConstableRabbit » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:06 am

PackLandVA wrote:
Bull wrote:
PackLandVA wrote:
Who?

Theo Epstein. He’s the guy that runs the Cubs and says things.


The first one. Morrow?

The guy who was top 40 of NL relievers in fWAR despite pitching half the innings of most of the guys ahead of him.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby The Logan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:51 pm

TMan92 wrote:Insurance will help. His usage by the Dodgers is what killed him in my opinion.


I would argue that him having a history of getting injured every year he's been in the majors since 2009 is what killed him
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Andy » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:22 pm

The Logan wrote:
TMan92 wrote:Insurance will help. His usage by the Dodgers is what killed him in my opinion.


I would argue that him having a history of getting injured every year he's been in the majors since 2009 is what killed him

Yep. If the revisionist history becomes "oh, well the Dodgers broke him" it's going to be annoying. This guy had giant, blood-red flags all over his career and Theo should've let someone else give him $20M to rehab for 2 years.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Gmoney08 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:30 pm

Andy wrote:
The Logan wrote:
TMan92 wrote:Insurance will help. His usage by the Dodgers is what killed him in my opinion.


I would argue that him having a history of getting injured every year he's been in the majors since 2009 is what killed him

Yep. If the revisionist history becomes "oh, well the Dodgers broke him" it's going to be annoying. This guy had giant, blood-red flags all over his career and Theo should've let someone else give him $20M to rehab for 2 years.


I feel 20m was worth the risk.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby javy knows my name » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:18 pm

Gmoney08 wrote:
Andy wrote:
The Logan wrote:
I would argue that him having a history of getting injured every year he's been in the majors since 2009 is what killed him

Yep. If the revisionist history becomes "oh, well the Dodgers broke him" it's going to be annoying. This guy had giant, blood-red flags all over his career and Theo should've let someone else give him $20M to rehab for 2 years.


I feel 20m was worth the risk.


That's 20m of the Ricketts money that didn't go to awful Trump things
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:31 pm

javy knows my name wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
Andy wrote:Yep. If the revisionist history becomes "oh, well the Dodgers broke him" it's going to be annoying. This guy had giant, blood-red flags all over his career and Theo should've let someone else give him $20M to rehab for 2 years.


I feel 20m was worth the risk.


That's 20m of the Ricketts money that didn't go to awful Trump things


The only good argument for this terrible signing.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Derwood » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:01 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:
javy knows my name wrote:
Gmoney08 wrote:
I feel 20m was worth the risk.


That's 20m of the Ricketts money that didn't go to awful Trump things


The only good argument for this terrible signing.


Assuming Morrow isn't also an avid Trump supporter
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby David » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:15 am

Andy wrote:
The Logan wrote:
TMan92 wrote:Insurance will help. His usage by the Dodgers is what killed him in my opinion.


I would argue that him having a history of getting injured every year he's been in the majors since 2009 is what killed him

Yep. If the revisionist history becomes "oh, well the Dodgers broke him" it's going to be annoying. This guy had giant, blood-red flags all over his career and Theo should've let someone else give him $20M to rehab for 2 years.


It went full worst case in terms of health (possibly thanks to maddon ignoring usage orders) and he was still worth like 5.5 mil last year. It wasn't some disastrous signing. And the injury risk was baked into the modest cost. If he had no injury history, he would've cost a lot horsefeathering more.

If you wanna be mad at some horsefeathers in hindsight, the Heyward deal is right there.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:28 am

David wrote:
Andy wrote:
The Logan wrote:
I would argue that him having a history of getting injured every year he's been in the majors since 2009 is what killed him

Yep. If the revisionist history becomes "oh, well the Dodgers broke him" it's going to be annoying. This guy had giant, blood-red flags all over his career and Theo should've let someone else give him $20M to rehab for 2 years.


It went full worst case in terms of health (possibly thanks to maddon ignoring usage orders) and he was still worth like 5.5 mil last year. It wasn't some disastrous signing. And the injury risk was baked into the modest cost. If he had no injury history, he would've cost a lot horsefeathering more.

If you wanna be mad at some horsefeathers in hindsight, the Heyward deal is right there.


My disgust is large.

My resentment contains multitudes.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Andy » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:25 am

David wrote:
Andy wrote:
The Logan wrote:
I would argue that him having a history of getting injured every year he's been in the majors since 2009 is what killed him

Yep. If the revisionist history becomes "oh, well the Dodgers broke him" it's going to be annoying. This guy had giant, blood-red flags all over his career and Theo should've let someone else give him $20M to rehab for 2 years.


It went full worst case in terms of health (possibly thanks to maddon ignoring usage orders) and he was still worth like 5.5 mil last year. It wasn't some disastrous signing. And the injury risk was baked into the modest cost. If he had no injury history, he would've cost a lot horsefeathering more.

If you wanna be mad at some horsefeathers in hindsight, the Heyward deal is right there.

I didn't hate the Heyward deal at the time, and neither did anyone else here as far as I know. I was skittish of the Morrow signing immediately, so this isn't about hindsight.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby Bertz » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:27 am

Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
javy knows my name wrote:
That's 20m of the Ricketts money that didn't go to awful Trump things


The only good argument for this terrible signing.


Assuming Morrow isn't also an avid Trump supporter


IIRC Morrow is pretty vocally liberal. It's basically him and Sean Doolittle.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby TMan92 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:34 am

Bertz wrote:
Derwood wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The only good argument for this terrible signing.


Assuming Morrow isn't also an avid Trump supporter


IIRC Morrow is pretty vocally liberal. It's basically him and Sean Doolittle.


All the damn liberals want to get paid for not working!

Yes, I am joking.
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Re: General Cubs Chit-Chat

Postby badger » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:02 am

David wrote:
Andy wrote:
The Logan wrote:
I would argue that him having a history of getting injured every year he's been in the majors since 2009 is what killed him

Yep. If the revisionist history becomes "oh, well the Dodgers broke him" it's going to be annoying. This guy had giant, blood-red flags all over his career and Theo should've let someone else give him $20M to rehab for 2 years.


It went full worst case in terms of health (possibly thanks to maddon ignoring usage orders) and he was still worth like 5.5 mil last year. It wasn't some disastrous signing. And the injury risk was baked into the modest cost. If he had no injury history, he would've cost a lot horsefeathering more.

If you wanna be mad at some horsefeathers in hindsight, the Heyward deal is right there.


I’m pretty sure being legit mad about the Heyward signing would be revisionist history for most Cubs fans. Everyone I know was pretty pumped about it.
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