It's Maddoning

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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:08 pm

Am I alone in thinking Counsell would manage this Cubs team to 95-100 wins? The Brewers started Almora and Russell equivalents all season, one of them at lead off. They had like 2 or 3 remarkable pitchers and then he just rotated the other parts in and out effectively, many times pulling starters after 3 or 4 innings. The defensive positioning is spot-on. They reduced most of our big bats to ash.

It's absolutely insane that they have that awful of a RD and are still gonna get into the playoffs.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby UK » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:32 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Am I alone in thinking Counsell would manage this Cubs team to 95-100 wins? The Brewers started Almora and Russell equivalents all season, one of them at lead off. They had like 2 or 3 remarkable pitchers and then he just rotated the other parts in and out effectively, many times pulling starters after 3 or 4 innings. The defensive positioning is spot-on. They reduced most of our big bats to ash.

It's absolutely insane that they have that awful of a RD and are still gonna get into the playoffs.


Managers don't make that big of a difference. With that said, he's one of the best and better than Maddon.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby OleMissCub » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:53 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I'm a believer in the whole stupid, "horsefeathers journeymen catchers make decent coaches/managers" thing. Bring on Ross, that [expletive] scumbag.


It's damn near scientific at this point is it not?

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Man, how do you leave out Torre.


Going with current.

Also Torre wasn't a journeyman, he was a borderline HOF catcher.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby chopsx9 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:02 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I'm a believer in the whole stupid, "horsefeathers journeymen catchers make decent coaches/managers" thing. Bring on Ross, that [expletive] scumbag.


It's damn near scientific at this point is it not?

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In that case John Baker...come on dowm!!

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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:04 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Am I alone in thinking Counsell would manage this Cubs team to 95-100 wins? The Brewers started Almora and Russell equivalents all season, one of them at lead off. They had like 2 or 3 remarkable pitchers and then he just rotated the other parts in and out effectively, many times pulling starters after 3 or 4 innings. The defensive positioning is spot-on. They reduced most of our big bats to ash.

It's absolutely insane that they have that awful of a RD and are still gonna get into the playoffs.


I would be very careful attributing positive differential between RD and wins to the manager. The whole point of Pythagorean Wins is that they're more predictive than real wins, because there doesn't seem to be anything intrinsic about the team (which the manager is) that makes the difference happen.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:26 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
It's damn near scientific at this point is it not?

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Man, how do you leave out Torre.


Going with current.

Also Torre wasn't a journeyman, he was a borderline HOF catcher.


Yeah, but he's butt ass ugly, so he counts.
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Re: RE: Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Irrelevant Dude » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:38 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:It's absolutely insane that they have that awful of a RD and are still gonna get into the playoffs.

It's almost like run differential is a nearly meaningless stat.
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Re: RE: Re: It's Maddoning

Postby 17 Seconds » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:27 am

Irrelevant Dude wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:It's absolutely insane that they have that awful of a RD and are still gonna get into the playoffs.

It's almost like run differential is a nearly meaningless stat.


i mean, outscoring your opponent is the way you win. they deserve credit for winning the close games, especially when hader is a big part of it, but the point is that you don't put up a winning record while getting outscored without a good amount of fortune.

it's like people got so sick of the RD differential talk (i did too) that they're going too far the other way and acting like runs scored/allowed is irrelevant or something.

they deserve credit, but they've had a charmed season with a weak roster. if they don't win the world series, i doubt brewers fans are going to be optimistic about the future based their ability to win nearly every close game. then again, baseball fans are dumb.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Janelle-Alexis » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:07 am

Derwood wrote:Or Maddon (though he never "journeyed" above A-Ball)


Maddon would definitely be a better manager if he made it to AA.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Regular Show » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:45 am

We need to create a new Cubs manager thread because this horsefeathers is gone. We can speculate on who we want and whether David Ross is a tool or a good vet or maybe both...



I wanted Rocco Baldelli, but that ain't happening now. Still, we should get someone in that mold who has spent time in a FO and as a coach. Someone younger (doesn't have to be a millennial) who can better relate to our best young players. I've heard good things about Joe Espada.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Deeg » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:40 am

Repeated - don't sleep on Farrell...
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:11 am

Joe Espada or Carlos Beltran sound good to me. If the Astros and Yankees brain trusts, respectively, like these guys, that's good enough for me.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby UK » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:36 am

CyHawk_Cub wrote:Joe Espada or Carlos Beltran sound good to me. If the Astros and Yankees brain trusts, respectively, like these guys, that's good enough for me.


Espada and Bard are my top 2.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby OleMissCub » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:55 pm

UK wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:Joe Espada or Carlos Beltran sound good to me. If the Astros and Yankees brain trusts, respectively, like these guys, that's good enough for me.


Espada and Bard are my top 2.


Totally down with that.

As others have said, aside from his lack of experience coaching, I'd be concerned that Ross' preexisting relationship with so many of the players on the current team could be a liability.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby UK » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:12 pm

UK wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:Joe Espada or Carlos Beltran sound good to me. If the Astros and Yankees brain trusts, respectively, like these guys, that's good enough for me.


Espada and Bard are my top 2.


(Bard)
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-manager ... n-of-data/

(Espada)
https://theathletic.com/279074/2018/03/ ... -and-more/
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:18 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
UK wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:Joe Espada or Carlos Beltran sound good to me. If the Astros and Yankees brain trusts, respectively, like these guys, that's good enough for me.


Espada and Bard are my top 2.


Totally down with that.

As others have said, aside from his lack of experience coaching, I'd be concerned that Ross' preexisting relationship with so many of the players on the current team could be a liability.

This is a concern that makes zero sense to me. I know you aren’t the only one, but it’s just a bizarre theory.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:24 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddon end up in San Diego. Either as a the Padres manager or as a homeless lunatic.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Thed Hoyerstein » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:25 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
UK wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:Joe Espada or Carlos Beltran sound good to me. If the Astros and Yankees brain trusts, respectively, like these guys, that's good enough for me.


Espada and Bard are my top 2.


Totally down with that.

As others have said, aside from his lack of experience coaching, I'd be concerned that Ross' preexisting relationship with so many of the players on the current team could be a liability.


Ross is certainly out because the Ricketts are definitely not fans of covering preexisting conditions
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby UK » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:46 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddon end up in San Diego. Either as a the Padres manager or as a homeless lunatic.


Pittsburgh was my guess.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:55 pm

UK wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddon end up in San Diego. Either as a the Padres manager or as a homeless lunatic.


Pittsburgh was my guess.


I mean, sure, if they offer the best deal, I don't see why he wouldn't go...I just have a feeling he'd rather go to a team with a young core trying to figure it all out, and those are the types of teams that would be most likely looking to bring him on. The Pirates are just kinda there in baseball limbo.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:12 pm

Who do you think will be the Cub's manager in 2020? Girardi a good possibility?

Jay Jaffe: I think Girardi is a possibility but hardly automatic even given his previous Chicago connections. It's been reported that the team pursued Mark DeRosa and Raúl Ibañez — both of whose names come up quite often as potential firs-time managers — to add to Maddon's coaching staff last year as well as Aaron Boone, who obviously went a different direction. Carlos Beltran is another recently retired player who could draw interest, and maybe either Ron Wotus or Hensley Meulens if the Giants choose one over the other to succeed Bruce Bochy. Or both, if they go a very different direction.


I remember some Ibanez hype, didn't know they also pursued Boone for some role. Ibanez might be a good name for the manager hunt, he's in a FO role with the Doyers
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Brian » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:05 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddon end up in San Diego. Either as a the Padres manager or as a homeless lunatic.


I don't know if there is already a successor in place, but San Francisco makes sense too. Veteran that is past his usefulness is a very Giants of the last couple of years move.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:11 pm

Brian wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddon end up in San Diego. Either as a the Padres manager or as a homeless lunatic.


I don't know if there is already a successor in place, but San Francisco makes sense too. Veteran that is past his usefulness is a very Giants of the last couple of years move.

I think SF goes younger as they finally enter the rebuild. For Maddon I’d say San Diego, Angels, Phillies, Rockies, Mets, or White Sox (to own the Cubs or something) as landing spots. He’ll have a job if he wants one.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:38 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Brian wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddon end up in San Diego. Either as a the Padres manager or as a homeless lunatic.


I don't know if there is already a successor in place, but San Francisco makes sense too. Veteran that is past his usefulness is a very Giants of the last couple of years move.

I think SF goes younger as they finally enter the rebuild. For Maddon I’d say San Diego, Angels, Phillies, Rockies, Mets, or White Sox (to own the Cubs or something) as landing spots. He’ll have a job if he wants one.


Yeah, White Sox are my #2 pick after SD as to where he likely ends up, then Phillies #3.
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Re: It's Maddoning

Postby Regular Show » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:08 am

I think Maddon either signs with the Angels or the Mets.

I feel like the new GM of the Mets thinks this team is really close to championship-caliber quality and just needs a better manager. I've read rumors they really want Maddon and will be offering $5+ mil to get him.

I've actually heard the Sox are pretty happy with the job Rick Renteria has done. Next year will be the make-or-break year for him. He probably gets fired during the season is my guess.
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