sometimes deck chairs need to be rearranged

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Tim
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Re: sometimes deck chairs need to be rearranged

Postby Tim » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:and I'm not confident in this FO being able to adequately address the perpetual pitching issues they're going to have through the next two seasons without trying something/someone new.

They seem to very much be trying something(s) and someone(s) new going back ~2 years now with the changes made internally. Especially with the moves this and last offseason.


And here's hoping it actually pays off, because they're hosed if it doesn't. But declaring everything fixed when it's still a pretty damn big question mark as to when, where and who the Cubs will be able to upgrade their pitching

Who has said that it's fixed?

I've seen "progress", "improved", "better", etc. But I don't recall anyone saying "fixed"
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Re: sometimes deck chairs need to be rearranged

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:57 pm

Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:They seem to very much be trying something(s) and someone(s) new going back ~2 years now with the changes made internally. Especially with the moves this and last offseason.


And here's hoping it actually pays off, because they're hosed if it doesn't. But declaring everything fixed when it's still a pretty damn big question mark as to when, where and who the Cubs will be able to upgrade their pitching

Who has said that it's fixed?

I've seen "progress", "improved", "better", etc. But I don't recall anyone saying "fixed"


Like, 3 posts back:

Bertz wrote:the pitching problems were fixed literally years ago
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Re: sometimes deck chairs need to be rearranged

Postby Bertz » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:45 pm

I feel comfortable calling the pitching fixed. We haven't seen a guy go all the way from A-Z in the org yet, and that will be nice to see, but we've seen numerous guys successfully make different parts of the journey.

The draft picks and IFA signings from the last few years are all moving at comfortable clips, and like I showed a few posts upwe've reached the point with 3-4 of them at AAA to start the 2020 season.

I would argue given Arrieta, Hendricks, and Carl, that finishing guys who were in the upper minors was never a problem (I'm less adamant about this than the broader point however). But if that part of the process was broken as well, I think Ryan, Wick, and Wieck show that they can now finish guys as well, even if they have seemingly stalled out. Wieck in particular they turned around in like 2-3 weeks. There's probably an argument with Mills too, but he's been in the org so long that even with the numerous injuries I don't want to hold him up as evidence of anything.

They can move guys through the minors now, and successfully graduate guys from AAA to MLB. I'd be very skeptical that those two skills are independent or mutually exclusive.
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Re: sometimes deck chairs need to be rearranged

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:37 pm

Bertz wrote:I feel comfortable calling the pitching fixed. We haven't seen a guy go all the way from A-Z in the org yet, and that will be nice to see, but we've seen numerous guys successfully make different parts of the journey.

The draft picks and IFA signings from the last few years are all moving at comfortable clips, and like I showed a few posts upwe've reached the point with 3-4 of them at AAA to start the 2020 season.

I would argue given Arrieta, Hendricks, and Carl, that finishing guys who were in the upper minors was never a problem (I'm less adamant about this than the broader point however). But if that part of the process was broken as well, I think Ryan, Wick, and Wieck show that they can now finish guys as well, even if they have seemingly stalled out. Wieck in particular they turned around in like 2-3 weeks. There's probably an argument with Mills too, but he's been in the org so long that even with the numerous injuries I don't want to hold him up as evidence of anything.

They can move guys through the minors now, and successfully graduate guys from AAA to MLB. I'd be very skeptical that those two skills are independent or mutually exclusive.

They can do a thing they have never done is a pretty bold statement.
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Re: sometimes deck chairs need to be rearranged

Postby squally1313 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:12 pm

I'm late to this discussion on the Astros and how they got their pitching, but it seems a little disingenuous to point to Torres, Eloy, Cease, etc as big successes of our farm system, while not mentioning that the Astros went out and got Cole, Verlander, and Greinke using, you guessed it, prospects from their organization.
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