Baez impresses Baez

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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby David » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:18 pm

even though i'm fully aware of how super young russell was when he came up and still pretty much is, i was still a little shocked to see that he's about half a year younger than turner.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:19 pm

KingCubsFan wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Castro's Spray Chart wrote:
Not sure it would be all that stupid if you had Trea Turner headlining the deal

Why would we trade our 23 year old SS who already has 8 career WAR for a SS prospect?

Prospect? He's put up 5.1 WAR in less than a full season. The real question is why would the Nats do that deal?

I don't think the literal Trea Turner is being discussed here, it's a figurative similar deal the Nats/Padres did. Which in that case (and which I assumed) yes he is a prospect
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby bd811 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:20 pm

KingCubsFan wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Castro's Spray Chart wrote:
Not sure it would be all that stupid if you had Trea Turner headlining the deal

Why would we trade our 23 year old SS who already has 8 career WAR for a SS prospect?

Prospect? He's put up 5.1 WAR in less than a full season. The real question is why would the Nats do that deal?


no one is talking about trading Russell for actual Joe Ross and actual Trea Turner. R. Show's idea is to trade him for a package similar to the Turner-Ross package the Nats got from San Diego when they traded Souza a few years ago.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby KingCubsFan » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:36 pm

bd811 wrote:
KingCubsFan wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Why would we trade our 23 year old SS who already has 8 career WAR for a SS prospect?

Prospect? He's put up 5.1 WAR in less than a full season. The real question is why would the Nats do that deal?


no one is talking about trading Russell for actual Joe Ross and actual Trea Turner. R. Show's idea is to trade him for a package similar to the Turner-Ross package the Nats got from San Diego when they traded Souza a few years ago.

Yep. Didn't scroll all the way up. My bad.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Tim » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:22 pm

KingCubsFan wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Castro's Spray Chart wrote:
Not sure it would be all that stupid if you had Trea Turner headlining the deal

Why would we trade our 23 year old SS who already has 8 career WAR for a SS prospect?

Prospect? He's put up 5.1 WAR in less than a full season. The real question is why would the Nats do that deal?

This was great - one guy went overly literal. The next guy said, "You think you took it too literally? Ha!"
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Regular Show » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:27 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Bryant's Disco Ball wrote:Apologize if this is a stupid question, but was it a blessing of sorts that Addy got hurt and allowed Javy to start every single day no matter the matchup? Did it help him emerge even more?


Personally, I think we should make Baez the starting SS next year and explore trading Russell in the offseason for a strong "T. Turner + J. Ross" type package. If no strong trade proposals emerge then keep him and hope he improves his approach at the plate and remains healthier next year, along with fewer off-field distractions. A. Russell is still super valuable because of his defense and power so maybe the Cubs FO is still really high on him.

He's also still our best SS and it would be stupid to trade him


I don't believe he is our best SS going forward. At least not in terms of offensive upside. I believe J. Baez can be just as good as A. Russell on defense if he cleans up a few things. He has unquestionably the strongest arm on the team. He makes plays no one else can make, including A. Russell. J. Baez is improving and getting better...

I can't say the same thing for A. Russell. I really haven't seen any improvements from A. Russell at the plate or in his approach. I really doubt he improves much beyond hitting for more power. He should be getting better, but I'm almost positive his scouting report says "Don't throw him a fastball in the zone" and "really struggles to hit good breaking pitches inside and outside the zone". I mean the same thing can be said for Baez too. Baez is showing some improvement, but occasionally regresses and goes back into his bad habits.

Look, I'm fine with keeping him (Russell). I said he's still super valuable because of his defense and power at SS, but I think Baez is better and has better chance of reaching his ceiling now. No harm in exploring trades for this kind of talent.

I never said T. Turner for A. Russell...I said for a "T. Turner + J. Ross" type package. Personally, I do like T. Turner more than A. Russell as well, but I doubt Washington would even consider doing a Turner for Russell 1-for-1 swap. T. Turner is the better player and has a much higher upside IMO. I have no problem trading Russell for prospects, but they would have to be excellent consensus Top 100 prospects.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby treebird » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:36 pm

Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Personally, I think we should make Baez the starting SS next year and explore trading Russell in the offseason for a strong "T. Turner + J. Ross" type package. If no strong trade proposals emerge then keep him and hope he improves his approach at the plate and remains healthier next year, along with fewer off-field distractions. A. Russell is still super valuable because of his defense and power so maybe the Cubs FO is still really high on him.

He's also still our best SS and it would be stupid to trade him


I don't believe he is our best SS going forward. At least not in terms of offensive upside. I believe J. Baez can be just as good as A. Russell on defense if he cleans up a few things. He has unquestionably the strongest arm on the team. He makes plays no one else can make, including A. Russell. J. Baez is improving and getting better...

I can't say the same thing for A. Russell. I really haven't seen any improvements from A. Russell at the plate or in his approach. I really doubt he improves much beyond hitting for more power. He should be getting better, but I'm almost positive his scouting report says "Don't throw him a fastball in the zone" and "really struggles to hit good breaking pitches inside and outside the zone". I mean the same thing can be said for Baez too. Baez is showing some improvement, but occasionally regresses and goes back into his bad habits.

Look, I'm fine with keeping him (Russell). I said he's still super valuable because of his defense and power at SS, but I think Baez is better and has better chance of reaching his ceiling now. No harm in exploring trades for this kind of talent.

I never said T. Turner for A. Russell...I said for a "T. Turner + J. Ross" type package. Personally, I do like T. Turner more than A. Russell as well, but I doubt Washington would even consider doing a Turner for Russell 1-for-1 swap. T. Turner is the better player and has a much higher upside IMO. I have no problem trading Russell for prospects, but they would have to be excellent consensus Top 100 prospects.


you accidentally called a. russell by just his last name a couple times, please consider editing
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:39 pm

Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Personally, I think we should make Baez the starting SS next year and explore trading Russell in the offseason for a strong "T. Turner + J. Ross" type package. If no strong trade proposals emerge then keep him and hope he improves his approach at the plate and remains healthier next year, along with fewer off-field distractions. A. Russell is still super valuable because of his defense and power so maybe the Cubs FO is still really high on him.

He's also still our best SS and it would be stupid to trade him


I don't believe he is our best SS going forward. At least not in terms of offensive upside. I believe J. Baez can be just as good as A. Russell on defense if he cleans up a few things. He has unquestionably the strongest arm on the team. He makes plays no one else can make, including A. Russell. J. Baez is improving and getting better...

I can't say the same thing for A. Russell. I really haven't seen any improvements from A. Russell at the plate or in his approach. I really doubt he improves much beyond hitting for more power. He should be getting better, but I'm almost positive his scouting report says "Don't throw him a fastball in the zone" and "really struggles to hit good breaking pitches inside and outside the zone". I mean the same thing can be said for Baez too. Baez is showing some improvement, but occasionally regresses and goes back into his bad habits.

Look, I'm fine with keeping him (Russell). I said he's still super valuable because of his defense and power at SS, but I think Baez is better and has better chance of reaching his ceiling now. No harm in exploring trades for this kind of talent.

I never said T. Turner for A. Russell...I said for a "T. Turner + J. Ross" type package. Personally, I do like T. Turner more than A. Russell as well, but I doubt Washington would even consider doing a Turner for Russell 1-for-1 swap. T. Turner is the better player and has a much higher upside IMO. I have no problem trading Russell for prospects, but they would have to be excellent consensus Top 100 prospects.

I feel the complete opposite. Russell is already better and younger and has just as high an upside and does just about everything better than Javy except arm strength. There's plenty of playing time for both, however, and it's pretty silly to trade either, especially for prospects when both are young themselves and we are in the competitive window right now with them for the next 5-7+ years.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Tim » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:45 pm

As long as Willson is still part of the team, it isn't that clear that Javy has the strongest arm.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby bd811 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:11 pm

treebird wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:He's also still our best SS and it would be stupid to trade him


I don't believe he is our best SS going forward. At least not in terms of offensive upside. I believe J. Baez can be just as good as A. Russell on defense if he cleans up a few things. He has unquestionably the strongest arm on the team. He makes plays no one else can make, including A. Russell. J. Baez is improving and getting better...

I can't say the same thing for A. Russell. I really haven't seen any improvements from A. Russell at the plate or in his approach. I really doubt he improves much beyond hitting for more power. He should be getting better, but I'm almost positive his scouting report says "Don't throw him a fastball in the zone" and "really struggles to hit good breaking pitches inside and outside the zone". I mean the same thing can be said for Baez too. Baez is showing some improvement, but occasionally regresses and goes back into his bad habits.

Look, I'm fine with keeping him (Russell). I said he's still super valuable because of his defense and power at SS, but I think Baez is better and has better chance of reaching his ceiling now. No harm in exploring trades for this kind of talent.

I never said T. Turner for A. Russell...I said for a "T. Turner + J. Ross" type package. Personally, I do like T. Turner more than A. Russell as well, but I doubt Washington would even consider doing a Turner for Russell 1-for-1 swap. T. Turner is the better player and has a much higher upside IMO. I have no problem trading Russell for prospects, but they would have to be excellent consensus Top 100 prospects.


you accidentally called a. russell by just his last name a couple times, please consider editing


oh thanks i was so confused which Russell he was referring to there.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Regular Show » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:12 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:He's also still our best SS and it would be stupid to trade him


I don't believe he is our best SS going forward. At least not in terms of offensive upside. I believe J. Baez can be just as good as A. Russell on defense if he cleans up a few things. He has unquestionably the strongest arm on the team. He makes plays no one else can make, including A. Russell. J. Baez is improving and getting better...

I can't say the same thing for A. Russell. I really haven't seen any improvements from A. Russell at the plate or in his approach. I really doubt he improves much beyond hitting for more power. He should be getting better, but I'm almost positive his scouting report says "Don't throw him a fastball in the zone" and "really struggles to hit good breaking pitches inside and outside the zone". I mean the same thing can be said for Baez too. Baez is showing some improvement, but occasionally regresses and goes back into his bad habits.

Look, I'm fine with keeping him (Russell). I said he's still super valuable because of his defense and power at SS, but I think Baez is better and has better chance of reaching his ceiling now. No harm in exploring trades for this kind of talent.

I never said T. Turner for A. Russell...I said for a "T. Turner + J. Ross" type package. Personally, I do like T. Turner more than A. Russell as well, but I doubt Washington would even consider doing a Turner for Russell 1-for-1 swap. T. Turner is the better player and has a much higher upside IMO. I have no problem trading Russell for prospects, but they would have to be excellent consensus Top 100 prospects.

I feel the complete opposite. Russell is already better and younger and has just as high an upside and does just about everything better than Javy except arm strength. There's plenty of playing time for both, however, and it's pretty silly to trade either, especially for prospects when both are young themselves and we are in the competitive window right now with them for the next 5-7+ years.


Ah, not at the plate. I have more confidence in Baez this year than Russell. A. Russell has outproduced Baez in career WAR, but I honestly believe Baez has the higher upside now (and a better chance of reaching it). A. Russell has a super high ceiling too, but I just don't think he'll reach it for whatever reason. Maybe he does improve his approach and makes a few minor tweaks to his swing. He has amazing bat speed just like Baez, and doesn't need to pull anything to hit for power. Both of them are going to improve and are just entering their primes, just remains to be seen who will end up being better.

Btw, A. Russell's agent is S. Boras so I wouldn't say our competitive window is the next 5-7+ years with A. Russell as a part of it. I'm assuming it will be easier to lock up Baez over Russell going forward. If Russell does improve considerably then maybe the Cubs FO will try to retain him or work out an extension. We'll see. That's part of the consideration for why you might want to explore possible trades for A. Russell.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Regular Show » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:16 pm

Tim wrote:As long as Willson is still part of the team, it isn't that clear that Javy has the strongest arm.


Yeah, you're right Tim. It's crazy that W. Contreras might have the strongest arm on the team. It's pretty close between Javy and Willson IMO.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby philosophizer75 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:57 pm

Javy threw the ball at 89mph while coming up after his dive last night. Dude is just a freak
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Duke Silver » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:01 am

Addison Russell is being severely underrated. He was worth 4 wins last year as a 22-year-old. He plays Gold Glove defense and has 20+ HR power. I think his upside is even higher than Javy's. First of all, the chance that Javy reaches his is really low. It's just going to be super tough for a guy with his plate discipline to clean that up. Russell's changes don't need to be as drastic.

Mainly, though, the difference in defensive value puts Addison's upside higher. He's really freaking good at short. A lot better than Javy. If Addison reached his ceiling on offense, he's an MVP candidate.

I think it would be crazy to trade either one. But it's even more crazy to trade Addison.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Duke Silver » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:02 am

Also, I don't think this front office is too high on the idea of trading a guy when his value is at its lowest.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:07 am

Both have their roles and are valuable, I just like and think Russell is better and is more likely to be better long-term. Javy still doesn't really take walks, he has 24 this year and 13 are IBB. So if you subtract the IBB his real BB rate is under 3%, it's just really hard to stay consistently good offensively with his profile unless he gets some BABIP luck and/or is protected in certain matchups.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Regular Show » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:31 am

Duke Silver wrote:Also, I don't think this front office is too high on the idea of trading a guy when his value is at its lowest.


I agree with that part. I don't think this Cubs' regime likes to trade a guy when his value is at its lowest point so if the Cubs made A. Russell available and then other teams weren't offering fair or great value back in a trade then they wouldn't do it.

I really feel like Baez has improved his approach this year even if it isn't showing up in IsoD or BB total. I think he is slowly getting better, but yeah he'll never post a high OBP. I mean I don't think Russell will either. I think in their best years it'll hover around the .340-.350 OBP area.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this I guess. I like Baez more than Russell and think he has the higher upside going forward. I think I. Happ has the highest offensive upside of the trio btw, but I'm assuming the WAR he accumulates on defense will be minimal. We'll see. Glad we have good to great options at the middle infield positions.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Duke Silver » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:11 pm

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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:23 pm

So much flair
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby PackLandVA » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:57 pm

I wonder if "A. Russell" will ever become "The Russell".
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby davell » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:42 am

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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby weis21 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:44 am

i love him.

that is all.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby davell » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:06 am



Can't help it. He's just too horsefeathering cool.
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

Postby Derwood » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:38 pm

Duke Silver wrote:Image


That's even more Riff-Raffy than Jaso
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Re: Baez impresses Baez

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