The Cardinals

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raisincharlie
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby raisincharlie » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:54 pm

NonProfitCow wrote:Stupid would be not recognizing that they were conceding the season and claiming that trading away a 5 WAR pre-arb player for nothing is "reorganizing."

Tommy Pham was traded because we have a fragile owner who didn’t like him firing off to the media about the organization.

Zero to do with rebuilding. Silly you think that.

Plus we had to make room for Tyler O’Neill and Bader one way or another.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby ConstableRabbit » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:16 pm

raisincharlie wrote:
NonProfitCow wrote:Stupid would be not recognizing that they were conceding the season and claiming that trading away a 5 WAR pre-arb player for nothing is "reorganizing."

Tommy Pham was traded because we have a fragile owner who didn’t like him firing off to the media about the organization.

Zero to do with rebuilding. Silly you think that.

Plus we had to make room for Tyler O’Neill and Bader one way or another.

Trading one of the team's best players who didn't make anything for O'Neill and Bader is certainly a strategy.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby raisincharlie » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:07 pm

ConstableRabbit wrote:
raisincharlie wrote:
NonProfitCow wrote:Stupid would be not recognizing that they were conceding the season and claiming that trading away a 5 WAR pre-arb player for nothing is "reorganizing."

Tommy Pham was traded because we have a fragile owner who didn’t like him firing off to the media about the organization.

Zero to do with rebuilding. Silly you think that.

Plus we had to make room for Tyler O’Neill and Bader one way or another.

Trading one of the team's best players who didn't make anything for O'Neill and Bader is certainly a strategy.

No argument here but it was ownership call. Not a rebuilding move.

I don't think any Cards fan I know liked that trade. Now nor when it happened.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby mul21 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:40 pm

squally1313 wrote:
NonProfitCow wrote:
ManEatingTarp wrote:

The Cubs intentionally lost for half a decade so they could shed bad contracts, pick in the top 3 in the draft and stock up on international signings and money. It got them a WS, so they did it right. Good for them.
Saying the Cardinals 2 month reorganization last year is anything close to that is just stupid.

Stupid would be not recognizing that they were conceding the season and claiming that trading away a 5 WAR pre-arb player for nothing is "reorganizing."

I'd argue the reasons for trading away Tommy Pham were a little different/worse than trying to parse between 'reorganizing' and 'rebuilding'.


Yeah, he was brown and outspoken. Can't have that horsefeathers in Missourah.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby raisincharlie » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:58 pm

mul21 wrote:Yeah, he was brown and outspoken. Can't have that horsefeathers in Missourah.

Yeah that's why the whole city loves Ozzie, Lou, and Gibby like no other. Perhaps you forgot how they were in their playing days? This ownership is fickle about the "brand" in a lame way, no doubt. But they'd traded off other people who were similarly picking at the fabric who were white like Rasmus and Rolen.

You guys have the whitest, mayo, loafer-wearing fanbase around. Obvious "difference" between Wrigley and Guaranteed Rate fan demos.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby NonProfitCow » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:01 pm

Well this is going well.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Thed Hoyerstein » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:07 pm

raisincharlie wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:
raisincharlie wrote:Tommy Pham was traded because we have a fragile owner who didn’t like him firing off to the media about the organization.

Zero to do with rebuilding. Silly you think that.

Plus we had to make room for Tyler O’Neill and Bader one way or another.

Trading one of the team's best players who didn't make anything for O'Neill and Bader is certainly a strategy.

No argument here but it was ownership call. Not a rebuilding move.

I don't think any Cards fan I know liked that trade. Now nor when it happened.


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Re: The Cardinals

Postby raisincharlie » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:18 pm

Yes, BestFansStLouis compiles some truly awful fans' takes. Racist and otherwise. I don't know anyone like that and they are an awful, small subgroup of fan I never encounter, thankfully.

But the whitest thing on earth is Wrigley-goers dancing to "Go Cubs Go" and I can find plenty of examples of racist Cubs fans tweets/Facebook comments by using a search term. Not hard.

I'm glad this has devolved into a "no your city is more racist" when we all know Chicago's dark history and current and treatment of African Americans. I would think you'd be smart enough not to want to enter that low tier city-pride mudsling.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Andy » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:41 pm

raisincharlie wrote:I'm glad this has devolved into a "no your city is more racist" when we all know Chicago's dark history and current and treatment of African Americans. I would think you'd be smart enough not to want to enter that low tier city-pride mudsling.

This started with a stupid one-off joke that, had you spent any time at all on this board before going on your Nolan Gorman crusade, you would know was just a stupid one-off joke and not intended to be a dick-measuring contest about which city is more racist.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby ConstableRabbit » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:42 pm

raisincharlie wrote:Yes, BestFansStLouis compiles some truly awful fans' takes. Racist and otherwise. I don't know anyone like that and they are an awful, small subgroup of fan I never encounter, thankfully.

But the whitest thing on earth is Wrigley-goers dancing to "Go Cubs Go" and I can find plenty of examples of racist Cubs fans tweets/Facebook comments by using a search term. Not hard.

I'm glad this has devolved into a "no your city is more racist" when we all know Chicago's dark history and current and treatment of African Americans. I would think you'd be smart enough not to want to enter that low tier city-pride mudsling.

Go Cubs Go is awesome and you're jealous.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:11 pm

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby TMan92 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:35 pm

raisincharlie wrote:Cardinals fan here. I am not here to troll as I respect the Cubs and Chicago as a city.


I read that first sentence and grabbed the popcorn. Not disappointed.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Janelle-Alexis » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:38 pm

That Cards fan is a dope. Fans singing "Whoomp there it is" after a HR is waaaay whiter.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:48 am

Go Cubs Go is 2nd only to Juliana's Benny and the Jets in worst songs played at Wrigley
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby CubinNY » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:52 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Go Cubs Go is 2nd only to Juliana's Benny and the Jets in worst songs played at Wrigley

boooooooooo! It's a great, happy song!
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Derwood » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:04 pm

CubinNY wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Go Cubs Go is 2nd only to Juliana's Benny and the Jets in worst songs played at Wrigley

boooooooooo! It's a great, happy song!


I mean, it's objectively terrible, but I'm not going to begrudge the celebration of a win
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby badger » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:15 pm

Yes it is really terrible and definitely really white.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:42 pm

It’s a good fun song you soulless, miserable pricks
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Derwood » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:36 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:It’s a good fun song you soulless, miserable pricks


Fun? Maybe. Good? By no metric
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:41 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:It’s a good fun song you soulless, miserable pricks


I've been told it's kind of embarrassing to hear me sing it in front of my not-Cub-fan friends. But horsefeathers em if they can't handle awesomeness staring directly at them.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Post Count Padder » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:03 pm

I'm glad I tuned into this.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby raisincharlie » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:25 am

As good as Jack Flaherty is, Dakota Hudson has been just nearly as effective.

Hudson has a 0.9 fWAR. But is 15-6 for a reason. Generates the weakest contact in baseball. Fangraphs needs to figure out how to quantify that in their WAR calc.

Both young cornerstones of the rotation. In less than two years the team’s regulars will include Flaherty, Carlson, Hudson, Hicks, Gorman, Knizner, Fernandez, and possibly Reyes, Wong, Edman, and Bader too. Great young core to work with. High output from Goldy and Carpenter will be bonuses.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Bull » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:24 pm

raisincharlie wrote:As good as Jack Flaherty is, Dakota Hudson has been just nearly as effective.

Hudson has a 0.9 fWAR. But is 15-6 for a reason. Generates the weakest contact in baseball. Fangraphs needs to figure out how to quantify that in their WAR calc.

Both young cornerstones of the rotation. In less than two years the team’s regulars will include Flaherty, Carlson, Hudson, Hicks, Gorman, Knizner, Fernandez, and possibly Reyes, Wong, Edman, and Bader too. Great young core to work with. High output from Goldy and Carpenter will be bonuses.

Counting on young pitchers to not have their arms fall off is not a recipe for long term success. Cubs fans who remember the dusty baker days may be a little too sensitive to this, but it’s still true.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby raisincharlie » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:36 pm

Bull wrote:
raisincharlie wrote:As good as Jack Flaherty is, Dakota Hudson has been just nearly as effective.

Hudson has a 0.9 fWAR. But is 15-6 for a reason. Generates the weakest contact in baseball. Fangraphs needs to figure out how to quantify that in their WAR calc.

Both young cornerstones of the rotation. In less than two years the team’s regulars will include Flaherty, Carlson, Hudson, Hicks, Gorman, Knizner, Fernandez, and possibly Reyes, Wong, Edman, and Bader too. Great young core to work with. High output from Goldy and Carpenter will be bonuses.

Counting on young pitchers to not have their arms fall off is not a recipe for long term success. Cubs fans who remember the dusty baker days may be a little too sensitive to this, but it’s still true.

Meh. Hudson doesn't overpower and Flaherty has nothing in his delivery or injury history that says he will drop off the map. He's only getting better. Hicks is getting his Tommy John out of the way now so he will be good. Reyes already got his out of the way, so anything from him is a bonus.

No offense, but the Cardinals don't operate like the early 2000s Cubs on any level so I think we'll be fine in how we forecast for the future. We've been a contact-pitching team since DeWitt bought the team. We rely on defense and contact. And it works long term, demonstrably.

Plus...

FanGraphs wrote:UofIx3: Should the Cardinals worry about turning into the San Francisco Giants? St. Louis’ farm system seems to be slowing down and they’ve sure are paying for a lot of decline years in their recent long-term contracts to older players.

Craig Edwards: Is the farm system slowing down? I know it isn’t as highly ranked as it once was but it has two position players among the top 50 in the game for the first time in a decade. Flaherty should be a fixture in the rotation, in the last few years, they’ve gotten an All-Star in DeJong plus production out of Bader and potentially O’Neill. They already have their catcher of the future in Knizner to the point they traded Kelly away. The extensions have locked up a few positions in the near term, but the only long term deal is Goldschmidt’s. They have the resources, good young players now and a few in the system to build around without much committed in salary down the line as the money from Molina, Fowler, Carpenter, and a parade of relievers come off the books.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby SouthSideRyan » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:16 pm

It’s like Mets fans except I’ll care enough to enjoy it when it happens
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