NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Discussion about other teams, non-cubs players, baseball history, sabr vs scouting, etc.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby The Logan » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:55 pm

Duke Silver wrote:This guy continues to show his ass on twitter. He's so bitter.



Failure to execute on the field and in the front office. Soooooo the Cardinals problem is that they suck? Okay, got it.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:16 am

The farm system thing is so weird and lame. The Cubs have 10 WAR worth of position players already in the big league lineup who are 25 or younger (and Kris Bryant just barely misses that line). We could have just held them all at AAA for an extra two years instead of winning the World Series and had the No. 1+++++++ ranked farm system if that matters, I guess.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Duke Silver » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:22 am

The funniest thing about that tweet is the $90 million part. So for the two years that have been completed, the Cubs spent about $50 million more on their 25-man opening day roster, according to Cot's. The 40-man year-end rank is a lot closer -- around $25 million difference. I'm not sure where the discrepancy is coming from and don't even care. Let's just go with that $50 million.

WAR/$ isn't going to correlate well and it'd be silly to compare that way. But the Cubs in 2016 and '17 spent $50 million more for an astounding 26 more wins. The Cubs got significantly more bang for their buck. I don't see how you'd argue otherwise.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:23 am

The Logan wrote:
Duke Silver wrote:This guy continues to show his ass on twitter. He's so bitter.



Failure to execute on the field and in the front office. Soooooo the Cardinals problem is that they suck? Okay, got it.

Everything you post is instantly hilarious since you made that your sig.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby The Logan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:31 am

Comedy cheat code
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby ScrubMD » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:24 am

Duke Silver wrote:This guy continues to show his ass on twitter. He's so bitter.



So I guess his point is: As soon as they move to a better city and get a better front office, game on.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:23 pm

TT I saw GRB already had a forum topic about Harper to the Cubs next year. I know you post there, you should go shatter their dreams on how it’s possible (likely) we will and can add him and it not diminishing much/makes it any less likely we can afford other things (specifically extending/re-signing Bryant which they think we couldn’t do).
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:40 pm

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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Tim » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:51 pm

Question: Why did the brewers prioritize spending big on Cain when they already had Yelich, Santana & Braun? Given the state of their rotation, shouldn't they have allocated those funds towards pitching?
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:58 pm

Tim wrote:Question: Why did the brewers prioritize spending big on Cain when they already had Yelich, Santana & Braun? Given the state of their rotation, shouldn't they have allocated those funds towards pitching?

I think they idea was (and still may be) to trade Santana for a pitcher given the OF surplus (he's been linked to the Indians for Salazar, Rays for Archer or Odorizzi, D'backs for Corbin off the top of my head and obviously more pieces would be involved for someone like Archer). But yeah they shouldn't have done the Cain deal and used that contract money plus other money (they are only in the mid $90s in payroll for the year) to sign Darvish even if they had to go to 6/160 or whatever to get him to go there. Sterns is playing 10 dimensional chess though or something, so don't question it.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby The Logan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:09 pm

Tim wrote:Question: Why did the brewers prioritize spending big on Cain when they already had Yelich, Santana & Braun? Given the state of their rotation, shouldn't they have allocated those funds towards pitching?


Don't try and get in the brain of a genius GM, Tim, you won't come out alive.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Hunter » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:11 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Tim wrote:Question: Why did the brewers prioritize spending big on Cain when they already had Yelich, Santana & Braun? Given the state of their rotation, shouldn't they have allocated those funds towards pitching?

I think they idea was (and still may be) to trade Santana for a pitcher given the OF surplus (he's been linked to the Indians for Salazar, Rays for Archer or Odorizzi, D'backs for Corbin off the top of my head and obviously more pieces would be involved for someone like Archer). But yeah they shouldn't have done the Cain deal and used that contract money plus other money (they are only in the mid $90s in payroll for the year) to sign Darvish even if they had to go to 6/160 or whatever to get him to go there. Sterns is playing 10 dimensional chess though or something, so don't question it.



Considering Santana's 2018 projections are slightly lower than Cain, that $16M per they gave Cain seems even more odd when they could have put it towards Darvish and something else.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Banedon » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:12 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:


The Cardinals can count on loyal fan support.


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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:20 pm

Tim wrote:Question: Why did the brewers prioritize spending big on Cain when they already had Yelich, Santana & Braun? Given the state of their rotation, shouldn't they have allocated those funds towards pitching?


When you look at only ERA for one guy, only FIP for another guy, only win total for a third guy but not last year his other win totals, and assume their prospects are all good, their rotation is actually pretty good.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Tim » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:26 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
Tim wrote:Question: Why did the brewers prioritize spending big on Cain when they already had Yelich, Santana & Braun? Given the state of their rotation, shouldn't they have allocated those funds towards pitching?


When you look at only ERA for one guy, only FIP for another guy, only win total for a third guy but not last year his other win totals, and assume their prospects are all good, their rotation is actually pretty good.

Well, I did overlook the guy with the shredded shoulder and bionic arm replacement.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:30 pm

Hunter wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
Tim wrote:Question: Why did the brewers prioritize spending big on Cain when they already had Yelich, Santana & Braun? Given the state of their rotation, shouldn't they have allocated those funds towards pitching?

I think they idea was (and still may be) to trade Santana for a pitcher given the OF surplus (he's been linked to the Indians for Salazar, Rays for Archer or Odorizzi, D'backs for Corbin off the top of my head and obviously more pieces would be involved for someone like Archer). But yeah they shouldn't have done the Cain deal and used that contract money plus other money (they are only in the mid $90s in payroll for the year) to sign Darvish even if they had to go to 6/160 or whatever to get him to go there. Sterns is playing 10 dimensional chess though or something, so don't question it.



Considering Santana's 2018 projections are slightly lower than Cain, that $16M per they gave Cain seems even more odd when they could have put it towards Darvish and something else.

Agree Braun/Yelich/Santana with Phillips and Broxton as 4/5 OF is plenty fine, could’ve even added Dyson, Gomez, Jackson etc and then spent the money on Darvish. Seems like that would’ve added more value/wins.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby squally1313 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:20 pm

I think the thought, besides flipping Santana for pitching, is to let Braun start at first base against every lefty and maybe even some righties. Thames was brutal against lefties last year, and really a sub-800 OPS in the second half for a first baseman isn't going to cut it either. Braun at first base would be a disaster, but it's just first base, and maybe they're hoping for increased offense with less defensive responsibility.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby NonProfitCow » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:09 am

lol ok

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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby MWV » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:24 am

NonProfitCow wrote:lol ok


I eagerly await rehashing the 2011 NL MVP debate
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:28 am

NonProfitCow wrote:lol ok


Braun is owed $57 million over the next 3 years with another $15 million team option in 2021, Kemp is owed $43 million over the next 2 years (though idk if the Padres or Braves are liable to pay any of it). Braun is better but Kemp is owed less (though more aav) and you are out of Kemp’s deal sooner. I think if the Dodgers attach a decent prospect something could happen here I guess. Braun’s 10/5 rights kicked in, in the last year or two and he’s said publicly LA is the only place he’d waive his NTC to go to (he’s from Southern California).

Brewers have been linked to 2B this offseason too so I could see Forsythe being part of any deal as well.
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby ScrubMD » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:40 am

I can't even calculate what level of chess Stearns is on now.

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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:39 pm

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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby David » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:26 pm

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The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.

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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:53 pm

David wrote:

dear sweet jebus, I will cream myself if they pay him more than Yu
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Re: NL Central Also-Rans: Reds, Brewers, Pirates

Postby David » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:58 pm

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:
David wrote:

dear sweet jebus, I will cream myself if they pay him more than Yu


Where the hell'd you get that idea?
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The Cubs’ transaction list under Epstein and Hoyer reads like a work of fiction, a wish-fulfillment list composed in hindsight.


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