The Broken Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

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The Broken Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:48 pm

Seems like we might as well have a thread like this since the money issues in MLB are going to come to a head sooner rather than later.

https://deadspin.com/its-pretty-messed- ... 1831038381

I really don't like where baseball has swung pretty quickly where more and more teams tanking, and even those not tanking are intentionally spending less and less to maximize revenue for billionaires, all while you have more and more fans who live and die by whether or not their team "overpaid" for a player, or "got a good deal" without even blinking. I've definitely been guilty of it myself, in talking about how Rizzo will likely just be cast aside one his cheap as balls team options are up, like, "oh, good, the Cubs' billionaire scumbag owners will save money by not bringing back a beloved, face of the franchise-type player." That seems horsefeathers and weird! Why are we at the point where we're rooting for a such a thing?

THERE ARE NO CASH-STRAPPED OWNERS.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:53 pm

Tanking is still stupid.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:54 pm

And it's extra stupid now that you arguably have double digit number of teams trying to do it.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Derwood » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:00 pm

I hate that MLB will never have the kind of financial equity that the NFL has (because of the number of games, because of the regional aspect of the TV contracts, blah blah blah) but it's outrageous that teams like the Cardinals are still getting competitive balance picks and being treated like they have no chance to compete with the "large markets" (who often act like small market teams when it comes to spending).

I've never loved the idea of a hard salary cap/floor for baseball, but it might be time (if, and only if, the cap is based on an algorithm around revenues and not around greedy billionaires not wanting to spend)
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:01 pm

I have no idea how you'd pull it off, but man, kick the stupid drafting and rookie contract systems out and set it up so that everyone is just a FA when they show up. The bigger teams can't buy EVERYONE.

Alright, now tell me why i'm dumb and this would lead to anarchy and madness.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:01 pm

And horsefeathers that idea of a cap. That's only good for owners.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Proven Veteran » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I have no idea how you'd pull it off, but man, kick the stupid drafting and rookie contract systems out and set it up so that everyone is just a FA when they show up. The bigger teams can't buy EVERYONE.

Alright, now tell me why i'm dumb and this would lead to anarchy and madness.

I've been saying this for years.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:20 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:I have no idea how you'd pull it off, but man, kick the stupid drafting and rookie contract systems out and set it up so that everyone is just a FA when they show up. The bigger teams can't buy EVERYONE.

Alright, now tell me why i'm dumb and this would lead to anarchy and madness.


Do it, but also teams have full freedom of movement. New York gets its own division.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:26 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:And horsefeathers that idea of a cap. That's only good for owners.

Yeah, idk how you see the owners using the LT as a soft cap and think a hard cap will help teams spend more. If anything the players will get less because there would a finite amount of dollars to spread around with a cap. There just should be no cap with none of these stupid penalties.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:28 pm

I'm pro tank if it is used to reset your franchise (Cubs/Astros), not if it is just a never-ending cycle (Marlins).

Maybe shorten the 1st contract service time to like 4 years, and tanking wouldn't be the best way to turn around but right now it is.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:58 pm

But it's not, because too many teams are going whole hog with the tank method. The Cubs and Astros got "lucky" in that they got in and did it when nobody else really was. Tanking is bull horsefeathers, and it's even more bigger bull horsefeathers these days.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:21 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:But it's not, because too many teams are going whole hog with the tank method. The Cubs and Astros got "lucky" in that they got in and did it when nobody else really was. Tanking is bull horsefeathers, and it's even more bigger bull horsefeathers these days.


Not to mention we were two game 7s away from tanking going ringless and the never-tankers winning both years.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:36 pm

Image

It suuuuuuuuucks, really puts a wrench in trying to be a sports fan
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:49 pm

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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:26 pm

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:But it's not, because too many teams are going whole hog with the tank method. The Cubs and Astros got "lucky" in that they got in and did it when nobody else really was. Tanking is bull horsefeathers, and it's even more bigger bull horsefeathers these days.


Not to mention we were two game 7s away from tanking going ringless and the never-tankers winning both years.


Ok, they don't tank win some more regular season games and are probably still ringless.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby CubinNY » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:29 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:https://twitter.com/timmarchman/status/1073331626975858688

This article should be really interesting to IMB. Joe was coming after him.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:15 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:I have no idea how you'd pull it off, but man, kick the stupid drafting and rookie contract systems out and set it up so that everyone is just a FA when they show up. The bigger teams can't buy EVERYONE.

Alright, now tell me why i'm dumb and this would lead to anarchy and madness.

Off the cuff, what my "wave a magic wand" plan would be.

Keep the draft, but reduce it down to like 15 rounds and make it a early entry system only for HS or JC prospects. Those who don't get drafted can elect FA right away or delay it for 3 years (or 21st Bday whichever is sooner) . Current process as far as 40 man/rule 5 eligibility for HS draftees or HS FAs is cut by 1 year. For college FAs, they must be added to the 40 man the off season after they sign or be eligible for the Rule 5. 40 man rule with the 3 option years remains. International FA would have same control rules as HS FA and the international pool money would go away.

Eliminate the pre-arb cost controlled years except for the rookie year, but tack on one extra arb year which is a restricted right FA year. In that final arb year, a player and team go to arb and the player can elect FA if they lose arbitration, but will have anywhere from a 1st - 3rd round draft penalty from the signing team depending on the total amount of the team's offer. Obviously arb hearings need to move way up in the off-season. All other FA compensation is eliminated.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:04 am

If we’re talking solutions, I don’t know if I shared this here:

- If you spend ~2 months on an MLB roster, it's a full year. No more of this partial accumulation stuff that hurts everyone from Kris Bryant to journeyman relievers.

- Give minor leaguers a living wage you dummies. They'll be more productive and it costs less than a single win does in free agency.

- I'd have the luxury tax set to reflect that players are receiving a set percentage of revenue each year, even when you consider the public facing numbers that share has declined, so that's an easy enough starting point.

- Then I'd say that all player spending falls in that bucket. No draft or IFA restrictions, so if you want to spend 75% of your money on amateurs, you can do that. This removes the incentive to tank while still giving teams an option to optimize talent for future seasons when they're clearly not good enough today.

- Any teams not spending at least a certain percentage of the tax threshold aren't eligible for revenue sharing.

- I'd either drastically shorten the service time til free agency(e.g. 4 years), or introduce some form of restricted free agency during arbitration years. Lots of ways to go here but they need to fix the problem of most free agents being post-prime while actually allowing player development to be rewarded and not creating an EPL environment where the rich scoop up every valuable target.

- I'd also try to raise the minimum salary a fair amount, but that's a high risk move and there might be better ways to achieve the goal of young players making more earlier(maybe 2 renewal years, 2 arb years, then FA?)

I would hope and expect that would result in more money going to players than there is today, and among the players that you see less going to 30+ players and amateurs while more goes to young players producing at the MLB level. That would also hopefully help the incentive problems that teams currently have when they aren't championship caliber. I'm sure there's a million unintended consequences of such a setup, but we're dealing with a fair amount of bad unintended consequences now so I'm not going to be afraid of them either.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby SouthSideRyan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:08 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:I have no idea how you'd pull it off, but man, kick the stupid drafting and rookie contract systems out and set it up so that everyone is just a FA when they show up. The bigger teams can't buy EVERYONE.

Alright, now tell me why i'm dumb and this would lead to anarchy and madness.


There's very much a supply/demand issue here where the 17 year old Bryce Harpers benefit from this setup, and 90% of talents are hurt because of a glut of options on the open market.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby abmillis » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:21 am

SouthSideRyan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:I have no idea how you'd pull it off, but man, kick the stupid drafting and rookie contract systems out and set it up so that everyone is just a FA when they show up. The bigger teams can't buy EVERYONE.

Alright, now tell me why i'm dumb and this would lead to anarchy and madness.


There's very much a supply/demand issue here where the 17 year old Bryce Harpers benefit from this setup, and 90% of talents are hurt because of a glut of options on the open market.


I assume a lot of teams that can’t get the big names would approach it like a team under international cap penalties has to now. Sign a bunch of guys for relatively low dollar amounts and hope some of them pan out.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:40 pm

Len went on a twitter spree today kind of related to some issues brought up here







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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:49 pm

Kasper’s great but the ceiling (aka cap) idea is not cool unless I’m misunderstanding

Big fan of incentivizing winning
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:52 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:Kasper’s great but the ceiling (aka cap) idea is not cool unless I’m misunderstanding

It's not necessarily bad in comparison to current model if there is a floor involved. Right now 10+ teams aren't trying to win, so won't spend at all. Even the teams that are trying to win are tightening belts. Players have been taking home less and less of the total revenue pool, and if a cap/floor situation was necessary to raise that it may be better than the horsefeathers we now have.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:23 pm

Former Marlins President David Samson Taunts Fleeced Taxpayers: "$1.2 Billion. horsefeathers You!"



“Here’s why I love when you guys boo me,” said a small and sassy Samson. “I want you to keep booing me, because guess what? $1.2 billion. horsefeathers you!”

This guy should be eaten.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:25 pm

Also: what the horsefeathers, Le Batard?!?
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