The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Discussion about other teams, non-cubs players, baseball history, sabr vs scouting, etc.
User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 80387
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 11844
x 14536

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:02 pm

One of the most common arguments trotted out against things like raising the minimum wage.

"Why should fast food workers make as much/almost as much/more than EMT's?!?" Not that their problem isn't with salaries in general being far too low/stagnant, and that this means that, yes, EMT's should be making money...no, what makes more sense to them is that since Group A has it bad, that means Group B MUST have it worse. THAT'S what makes sense to them, as opposed to, y'know, people being paid better.
2 x
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Proven Veteran
All-Star
Posts: 2212
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Oakland, CA
x 1006
x 205

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Proven Veteran » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:04 pm

Multiple good takes from Chicago sportswriters in the last week. That's some crazy horsefeathers, man.
0 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 80387
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 11844
x 14536

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:05 pm

In the future people will just be rooting for their favorite billionaires because we're horsefeathering doomed.
0 x
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Banedon
Curse You!
Posts: 67064
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 9:36 pm
Location: Kidding Myself
x 5762
x 5573

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Banedon » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:29 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:In the future people will just be rooting for their favorite billionaires because we're horsefeathering doomed.


Mr Bezos, will you sign my trading card?
5 x

User avatar
WrigleyField 22
Superstar
Posts: 12588
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:48 pm
Location: hnderstabxcwhsg
x 1798
x 874

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:36 pm

Banedon wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:In the future people will just be rooting for their favorite billionaires because we're horsefeathering doomed.


Mr Bezos, will you sign my trading card?

Either that or:

"Mr Bezos,
Image"
Image
0 x
Image

User avatar
Brian
Hall of Fame
Posts: 28072
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: Chicago
x 40
x 4502
Contact:

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:55 pm

0 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 80387
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 11844
x 14536

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:00 pm

Brian wrote:


Image
2 x
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 7670
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 200
x 2535

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:03 pm

Owners should just cut out the middle men and do away with fielding sports teams. Instead, they can just post their quarterly financials for which fans can cheer.

The amount of parroted supply-side rhetoric I see on sports fan interwebs is mind-boggling <---(no, not really, I get why it's happening).
7 x

User avatar
SouthSideRyan
is ELL
Posts: 49724
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 6:08 am
Location: South Loop
x 601
x 1634

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:35 pm

Brian wrote:thead



New phone who dis?
0 x
Exile on Waveland wrote: IU smells like poop.

User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 7670
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 200
x 2535

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:47 pm

What they know is that most fans don't bother, and plenty of fans will defend billionaire owners for everything.

0 x

TomtheBombadil
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 6440
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 496
x 545

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:31 am

0 x
Spoiler: show
Image

User avatar
JudasIscariotTheBird
All-Star
Posts: 4014
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 6:05 am
Location: Denver, CO
x 3847
x 1650

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:08 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/01/mlbtr-poll-have-teams-become-too-conservative-in-free-agency.html

Check out those poll results

Image

From the comments:
Look at the Dodgers. Got a bina fide ace as their #4 in Homer Bailey for an often injured pitcher, a DH homer/strikeout way past his prime guy, and a ticking time bomb in Puig.
0 x
"None of these signal alarm bells to me"-Boris
"Sublime was driven by their frontman, who was, quite probably, a musical savant." -RIP Stannis
(Formerly Diceman4221)

Bertz
All-Star
Posts: 1048
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm
x 425
x 575

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Bertz » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:15 pm

Since 2007, players have received between 53 and 57 percent of revenue annually, including 54.8 percent in 2018. Those figures, which include amateur signing bonuses and minor-league salaries, are audited and given to the union. They are not in dispute.


This is from Rosenthal's latest article in The Athletic. If this is true, why aren't Owners screaming it from the rooftops? It would indicate, that at the most macro level, things are fine. Yes, the specifics (e.g. minor league salaries) are broken, but it's a different dynamic from "greedy owners not giving the players their share."

Do we think the issue is a some horsefeathers'd up definition of revenue? Because if this is actually true and not just shady accounting, I would guess this info would quell most of the people who are currently upset. I for one would drop my pitchfork. I'd still be pissed about minor league salaries and PTR specifically, but not baseball's labor issues more broadly.
0 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 80387
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 11844
x 14536

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:26 pm

That acts on the (IMO) faulty idea that the revenue is ideally supposed to be split approx. 50-50 between orgs and the players, and also leaves out that up through about 2010, the players' revenue was typically approx. 60%. So the players' revenue HAS decreased in the last almost decade, the owners' revenue has gone up, and the owners are responding to the market like the opposite is happening.
1 x
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 80387
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 11844
x 14536

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:27 pm

And yes, that is largely the fault of the MLBPA''s terrible negotiation. But the owner's are shamelessly taking advantage of that AND trying to play the victim at the same time.
0 x
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Brian
Hall of Fame
Posts: 28072
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: Chicago
x 40
x 4502
Contact:

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:07 pm





2 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 80387
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 11844
x 14536

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:15 pm

I'm really liking the tear Ray Ratto has been on since joining Deadspin:

https://deadspin.com/kyler-murray-wante ... 1832539484

In other words, boys, girls and undecideds, baseball is getting its shoes squeezed at the arches while squeezing its own at the instep. But Kyler Murray isn’t part of the reason.

Baseball (and by “baseball” we mean the 30 billionaires who run the business rather than the game itself) could have changed its guidelines governing draft choices playing immediately. Bigger signing bonuses or swifter avenues of promotion through roster flexibility and service time might have helped grease the available skids to make Murray’s choice a lot more difficult than it ultimately was. The A’s could have made him the starting center fielder and then played him an inning at each position for the home opener and then renegotiated his contract after the game. If baseball really thought Kyler Murray could change the narrative that it is a 55-and-over complex with artery-ossifying stadium food, it would have done so happily.

Or it could have done what it actually did, which is not worry about the narrative at all. It left the A’s brainiac farm led by the silver-tongued Svengali known to us as Billy Beane to sell life as an Elephant as best as could be done because ultimately, Kyler Murray didn’t mean enough to the industry as decided by the people who run the industry.

Baseball is back to the dark old days of the ’70s and ’80s, fighting about short-term money rather than game growth. For management, contracts must be driven down, and for labor, the perks of those already in the game must be defended. Marvin Miller and Donald Fehr sold the players on the idea of fighting for the next generation of players, but those arguments have been replaced by grousing about their own shrinking options. These are narrow views of a far greater set of problems, but hell is paved with short-sighted intentions.

Kyler Murray would have brought buzz to a sport that clearly lacks it. He brings a fascinating set of athletic skills to a sport that has been condemned as insufficiently effervescent. He would have represented a small but braggable victory for baseball over the sport that already has too many teams in the league people care about and now two additional leagues, the AAF and XFL, that they didn’t ask for and will almost surely forget. Murray the A would have been a very nice get.
2 x
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Brian
Hall of Fame
Posts: 28072
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: Chicago
x 40
x 4502
Contact:

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:22 pm

New Era getting in on the fun

this is a thread

0 x

Bertz
All-Star
Posts: 1048
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm
x 425
x 575

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Bertz » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:08 pm



Blue Jays are raising minor league salaries by 50%. Still not enough, but at this point at least guys at AA and AAA are approaching adequate money. For reference, here's what players make right now (this doesn't include short season):

AAA: $2,150/month in their first year, $2,400/month in second year, $2,700/month in third, for a 5.5-month season.
(Total: ~$11,825-$14,850 per year.)

AA: $1,700/month, goes up by $100/month in additional years.
(Total: ~$9,350+ per year)

High-A, Low-A: $1,100-1,500/month, goes up by $50 per year in additional years.
(Total: ~$6,050-8,400 per year)

Dominican Summer League: $300 per month, $900 per year for the three-month season.
1 x

User avatar
Bluescale
All-Star
Posts: 3081
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:44 pm
Location: Eugene, OR
x 387
x 180
Contact:

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Bluescale » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Bertz wrote:
AAA: $2,150/month in their first year, $2,400/month in second year, $2,700/month in third, for a 5.5-month season.
(Total: ~$11,825-$14,850 per year.)

AA: $1,700/month, goes up by $100/month in additional years.
(Total: ~$9,350+ per year)

High-A, Low-A: $1,100-1,500/month, goes up by $50 per year in additional years.
(Total: ~$6,050-8,400 per year)

Dominican Summer League: $300 per month, $900 per year for the three-month season.


If I remember correctly, aren't MiL players also docked part of their room and board? Or perhaps they are responsible for it out of their meager salary.
One of my coworkers had a son who was drafted by the Mariners out of college. If I remember correctly, they got one meal covered during the day, and the rest they had to pay for. I know these guys are playing a game, and vying for an opportunity to be famous and fabulously wealthy, but the minor leagues really are a scam.
0 x
A toast to Darrel Sink - a lifelong Cubs fan. You'll be missed.

Bertz
All-Star
Posts: 1048
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm
x 425
x 575

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Bertz » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:13 pm

Bluescale wrote:
Bertz wrote:
AAA: $2,150/month in their first year, $2,400/month in second year, $2,700/month in third, for a 5.5-month season.
(Total: ~$11,825-$14,850 per year.)

AA: $1,700/month, goes up by $100/month in additional years.
(Total: ~$9,350+ per year)

High-A, Low-A: $1,100-1,500/month, goes up by $50 per year in additional years.
(Total: ~$6,050-8,400 per year)

Dominican Summer League: $300 per month, $900 per year for the three-month season.


If I remember correctly, aren't MiL players also docked part of their room and board? Or perhaps they are responsible for it out of their meager salary.
One of my coworkers had a son who was drafted by the Mariners out of college. If I remember correctly, they got one meal covered during the day, and the rest they had to pay for. I know these guys are playing a game, and vying for an opportunity to be famous and fabulously wealthy, but the minor leagues really are a scam.


I'm not sure about the room and board thing, wouldn't surprise me, but I do know they have to pay clubhouse dues, which go to support the clubhouse folks who also don't make a living wage.
0 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 80387
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 11844
x 14536

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:09 pm

"Mew mew mew, how can we POSSIBLY hope to pay these mean, greedy players all of the money, mew mew mew"

https://deadspin.com/how-much-longer-wi ... 1833463105

The most recent example of a team squeezing fans from every angle possible can be found in the Washington Nationals’ bag ban. Joining in the American tradition of impeding ease of access to public spaces through feckless security theater, the Nats announced that backpacks will no longer be allowed in the stadium. “The bag policy was created for the safety of all our guests,” explained the team in a statement, ignoring the fact that there is scant evidence that such security measures actually make anyone safer. What is certain, though, is that the Nats’ bag ban will inconvenience fans while separating them from more of their money.

The Nationals waited more than a month after announcing the ban to reveal that they had partnered with D.C-based startup Binbox to “make 500 medium- and large-sized storage lockers available” in which to store bags that won’t be allowed in the stadium. Binbox, in the laudable startup tradition of providing an already existing service but in a more complicated and expensive fashion, offers a baffling pricing scheme of “$2 per hour, charged in six-minute increments.” Also, payments have to be processed through an app called Stripe, so now fans can look forward to downloading a useless app they’ll never otherwise need and stressing out over each pitching change that threatens to extend the game by another six minutes. Dumber still is the fact that, according to the Washington Post, backpacks will need to be searched by a security staffer before they can be placed in the Binbox, which should make you wonder why a bag that’s been deemed safe by security is somehow still too dangerous to bring into the stadium.


The average cost of an MLB ticket rose to $32.99 in 2019, a 48-percent increase since 2006, far outstripping the 25.4-percent inflation rate over the same period. The Dodgers, after charging $60 for gate parking during the World Series last year, hiked in-season gate rates to start at $25. The Nationals, in addition to the bag ban, do not offer a parking option cheaper than $20, and that one is four-fifths of a mile from the stadium—it will cost $48 to park in one of the lots directly across from Nationals Park, plus a $6 fee to purchase either pass online. Third-party parking options exist, but most involve walking distances that are simply unfeasible for many, particularly families. Meanwhile, stadium concession prices have risen to insulting levels, even considering the minuscule decrease to the average cost for a beer ($5.97), hot dog ($4.95), and soda ($4.60) in the 2019 season, per Team Marketing Report.

The use of personal seat licenses (PSLs), a nasty practice pioneered by the NFL wherein a fan pays a fee for the privilege of then purchasing season tickets, has also been quietly implemented by the Diamondbacks, Twins, Padres, Giants, and Cardinals in recent years. Fan derision kept the Rangers from instituting PSLs at their new ballpark that will be opening next year, but there was no saving them from a heavy increase in season ticket prices. One 25-year season ticket holder told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that his per-game ticket price will be increasing from $25 to $200 when the new stadium opens.

Teams love to talk about how new and renovated stadiums will greatly improve the fan experience, but the primary purpose of such improvements is always to extract more money from fans. Each new season brings another set of teams adding premium fan clubs to their stadiums, which are enclosed spaces separated from the regular concourses and seating areas that are only accessible to fans who have purchased a certain tier of ticket. These areas, which teams can sell the lucrative naming rights to, are meant to offer fans an elevated experience, complete with fine-dining options and craft cocktails. The Chicago Cubs are set to open three such clubs this season, and the Indians are set to complete renovations on their stadium (in part funded with $2.9 million of public funds collected from a “sin tax” on alcohol and cigarettes for repairs to Progressive Field), which include a luxury “Club Lounge” only accessible to season ticket holders, who will pay at least $62.75 per game for the privilege of watching the game on “two arrays of nine 75-inch TVs.”

Perhaps there are fans out there who want to go to a baseball game and spend the afternoon watching the game in a replacement-level sports bar while munching on a $15 bison burger or easy-bake dessert, but the more obvious answer to the question of why these clubs are becoming so prevalent is that they allow teams to bake higher costs into ticket prices. For example, let’s say you buy a ticket to see the Mets play at their home stadium. You may not even realize until reading the fine print that your $65.00 ticket includes access to the Foxwoods Club. You never really asked for or wanted access to the Foxwoods Club, but now you have it, and so in the fourth inning you decide to walk over and see what it’s about. What you will find is a large room that that looks like an airport bar and contains all the charm of a mall food court. You’ll be able to buy sushi in there, which you can enjoy while watching the Mets lose on a television screen affixed to a pole near one of the trash cans. If you’re disappointed by the concessions offered in this exclusive and luxurious sector of the stadium, it’s probably because the Mets’ executive chef is busy brainstorming their latest batch of disgusting and overpriced stunt food, which won’t be designed to be enjoyed by fans, but to be talked about and promoted by shills in the media. Eventually, you’ll return to your seat, forced to wonder if a brief trip to the Foxwoods Club was worth the increase in the ticket price that you probably didn’t even realize you were paying.
0 x
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 7670
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 200
x 2535

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:39 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:"Mew mew mew, how can we POSSIBLY hope to pay these mean, greedy players all of the money, mew mew mew"

https://deadspin.com/how-much-longer-wi ... 1833463105


How dare anyone question the intentions of such pioneering risk-takers & job creators. Owning a pro sports franchise during these tough times takes unspeakable bravery. These selfless billionaire owners need to be celebrated, not questioned.
1 x

User avatar
Sammy Sofa
Licks Butts
Posts: 80387
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:45 am
Location: Washington DC
x 11844
x 14536

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:39 pm

No, seriously; EVERYTHING IS FINE:

https://deadspin.com/mlb-advanced-media ... 1832634219

On the second Tuesday of February, at 3:00 in the afternoon, around 40 employees of MLB Advanced Media—one arm of MLB’s media empire, which also includes MLB.com, MLB Network and MLB Productions—nervously filed into a conference room at MLBAM’s office in Manhattan’s Chelsea Market. They had been living in fear of layoffs for months, thanks to longstanding plans for the company’s move to the MLB Network headquarters in Secaucus, New Jersey, and had received an email the previous day announcing a mandatory meeting. As they arrived, two people from MLB’s human resources department ticked their names off a list and sent them to one of two rooms. The people sent to one room were safe; the people sent to the other, including producers and editors who had worked for the company for a decade or longer, were laid off on the spot. In all, 18 people, nearly all of them full-timers, lost their jobs.

In the months leading up to the layoffs, sources say, management sent mixed messages and lied outright about who would get to keep their jobs, while the layoffs themselves were poorly handled and carried out by people whom those losing their jobs had never even met. But the crucial story isn’t the layoffs or MLBAM’s move to Secaucus, New Jersey—those, are, after all, mere business decisions. It’s that while those at the top of the MLB food chain are making more money than ever, those at the bottom are underpaid and overworked, toiling away in a toxic work environment that top baseball leadership allowed to fester even after former MLBAM CEO Bob Bowman was ousted in December 2017 for egregious workplace misconduct.


What’s happening with MLBAM is an instantiation of the way that those in charge of the national pastime, concerned mostly with maximizing already extravagant revenues, treat their most vulnerable workers. Just look at this recent story about how players aren’t paid for spring training, or at how MLB lobbied a bill preventing minor leaguers from being paid overtime into law. MLBAM had been allowed to operate, sources say, as an insular, Mad Men-style office—resulting in a wage suppression lawsuit and settlement—for nearly two decades because it was bringing in gobs and gobs of money thanks largely to its streaming operation, known as BAM. Since that operation was spun off and sold to Disney as BAMTech last summer, the calculus has changed somewhat. The treatment of workers has not.
0 x
► Show Spoiler

User avatar
Brian
Hall of Fame
Posts: 28072
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:43 pm
Location: Chicago
x 40
x 4502
Contact:

Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:03 pm

1 x


Return to “General Baseball Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ED1313 and 4 guests