The Broken Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Derwood » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:15 pm

I've been a fan of the "reverse draft order" for every sport for some time now. It will never happen
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:09 am

Derwood wrote:I've been a fan of the "reverse draft order" for every sport for some time now. It will never happen

Baseball would actually be suited well for that draft wheel that was floated for the NBA a few years ago.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-n ... the-wheel/

Do this along with my other proposal to pare down the draft to basically an early entrant system only.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:13 am

jersey cubs fan wrote:It's not necessarily bad in comparison to current model if there is a floor involved. Right now 10+ teams aren't trying to win, so won't spend at all. Even the teams that are trying to win are tightening belts. Players have been taking home less and less of the total revenue pool, and if a cap/floor situation was necessary to raise that it may be better than the horsefeathers we now have.


That’s probably/definitely a step up but can I just time skip to the revolution instead?
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Banedon » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:54 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Also: what the horsefeathers, Le Batard?!?


The tweet, at least, was from some Le Batard subreddit...which sounds like a terrible place, but whatever...it's not Le Batard himself.

That said, this awful dude was still at Le Batard's birthday party so....
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:40 pm

It's interesting watching this growing pushback from sports writers and some fans against the [expletive] of owners trying to cry poor or work on the cheap...and then the huge pushback from bootlicker fans who weirdly stan for rich people every chance they get like it's some kind of personal insult against them.

I guess that's SOP in a country where the idea of a populist movement is to willfully and gleefully live and die by the whims of a nakedly cruel billionaire president.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Derwood » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:42 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:It's interesting watching this growing pushback from sports writers and some fans against the [expletive] of owners trying to cry poor or work on the cheap...and then the huge pushback from bootlicker fans who weirdly stan for rich people every chance they get like it's some kind of personal insult against them.

I guess that's SOP in a country where the idea of a populist movement is to willfully and gleefully live and die by the whims of a nakedly cruel billionaire president.


I was already told by several Facebook strangers that if I don't support the Ricketts, then I don't support the Cubs
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:44 pm

Or the usual, "WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE POLITICAL?!?" horsefeathers, it's the horsefeathering owners making this "political."
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Backtobanks » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:51 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Or the usual, "WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE POLITICAL?!?" horsefeathers, it's the horsefeathering owners making this "political."


This offseason has been Trumpian in that every bad story has been topped by another bad story within days of the last one.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Derwood » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:09 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Or the usual, "WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE POLITICAL?!?" horsefeathers, it's the horsefeathering owners making this "political."


That literally just happened. "If you're gonna get your panties in a bunch over every little political thing, then you aren't a TRUE fan to being with!"
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby big ball chunky time » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:15 pm

the big 3 sports are in a real weird spot right now to be honest

everyone knows now (and some decent percentage of us care) that seemingly every team owner sucks to some large degree. Like billionaires who want to do well spend their money in ways that aren't on sports teams. so the pool of billionaires willing to buy sports teams are all awful people.

social media lets us know that most of our athletes are dick heads in a way that makes (some of) us actually have to mentally confront this fact

playing football is basically homicide, and college football is even worse because kids are killing themselves for no reason

the baseball season is interminably long

not only is the nba season too long but there's 0 reason to watch a game until the 4th quarter.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby PackLandVA » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:35 am

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:the big 3 sports are in a real weird spot right now to be honest

everyone knows now (and some decent percentage of us care) that seemingly every team owner sucks to some large degree. Like billionaires who want to do well spend their money in ways that aren't on sports teams. so the pool of billionaires willing to buy sports teams are all awful people.

social media lets us know that most of our athletes are dick heads in a way that makes (some of) us actually have to mentally confront this fact

playing football is basically homicide, and college football is even worse because kids are killing themselves for no reason

the baseball season is interminably long

not only is the nba season too long but there's 0 reason to watch a game until the 4th quarter.



I gonna put one on a tee for ya', TBS:


The Packers don't have an owner. Unless you want to count their more than 360k stockholders as owners.

They are a non-profit corporation, the only in American professional sports. They're (business) run by a board of directors and only Mark Murphy collects a salary. Here's something that's great: they the only American major-league sports franchise to release its financial balance sheet every year.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:36 pm

feels like this may fit in here too

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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby champaignchris » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:26 pm

The three top changes I’d make are:

1. Young talent is way, way too cheap. The MLB minimum should be tripled or even quadrupled. As it is now, that 30 year old shortstop might be better than that 23 year old shortstop, but he’s not 10 or 20 times better than the 23 year old. The artificially low starting salary deflates the value of veterans.

2. There should be an age-based aspect to free agency. As it is now, late bloomers like Tommy Pham and Josh Donaldson are absolutely screwed by the system, never getting the chance for an in-prime free agency payday despite putting up elite or near-elite numbers. So maybe a player can opt into free agency at 28 or 29 regardless of service time.

3. The draft penalties should be lessened for teams that sign free agents. The most recent CBA is better than the prior one in this regard, but it still should be reduced more. Teams in the middle-tier in terms of talent still have too many disincentives to signing free agents. They shouldn’t be made to choose whether to improve their team via the draft or via free agency. I’d limit draft penalties for free agent signings to teams in the top 8-ish in payroll, if I couldn’t eliminate them altogether.

And a bonus fourth I’m less sure of is to maybe make draft picks tradable. If teams are going to tank, let them tank the horsefeathers out of the place and acquire a horsefeathers ton of draft picks. Maybe speed up the process. Make things a lot more fluid a la football.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Derwood » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:57 pm

Just kill arbitration and add restricted free agency
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:24 am

Derwood wrote:Just kill arbitration and add restricted free agency

Does RFA really work out for players in other pro leagues. Arbitration is actually kind of nice in some ways, the problem is its so long and drug out after like a decade of control.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby champaignchris » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:01 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Derwood wrote:Just kill arbitration and add restricted free agency

Does RFA really work out for players in other pro leagues. Arbitration is actually kind of nice in some ways, the problem is its so long and drug out after like a decade of control.


RFA seemed to have worked out for Zach Lavine and Kyle Fuller just to name two recent local examples.

RFA is basically just arbitration by a different means, where the market sets the price instead of an arbitrator. As you say, the bigger problem is that it doesn't happen until entering the player's fourth year of service time, which in many cases might not be until almost a decade after they sign their original deal.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:41 pm

champaignchris wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Derwood wrote:Just kill arbitration and add restricted free agency

Does RFA really work out for players in other pro leagues. Arbitration is actually kind of nice in some ways, the problem is its so long and drug out after like a decade of control.


RFA seemed to have worked out for Zach Lavine and Kyle Fuller just to name two recent local examples.

RFA is basically just arbitration by a different means, where the market sets the price instead of an arbitrator. As you say, the bigger problem is that it doesn't happen until entering the player's fourth year of service time, which in many cases might not be until almost a decade after they sign their original deal.

Well there are some differences, but mainly it kills player mobility, which is a bigger deal in a league with much bigger contract constraints (max salary/years in NBA, less guaranteed money and shorter careers in the NFL, etc). Basically locks in players prime negotiating years.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Derwood » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:52 pm

champaignchris wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:
Derwood wrote:Just kill arbitration and add restricted free agency

Does RFA really work out for players in other pro leagues. Arbitration is actually kind of nice in some ways, the problem is its so long and drug out after like a decade of control.


RFA seemed to have worked out for Zach Lavine and Kyle Fuller just to name two recent local examples.

RFA is basically just arbitration by a different means, where the market sets the price instead of an arbitrator. As you say, the bigger problem is that it doesn't happen until entering the player's fourth year of service time, which in many cases might not be until almost a decade after they sign their original deal.


Well you would have to say that players hit RFA 3 years after being promoted. Six years of cost controlled team control is way too much
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby davell » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:42 pm

Here's my general idea, stealing some from each the NFL and the NBA......

Double minor league salaries.

First 2 years are auto renewals, but players get paid a million per year.(prorated, if they're in the minors some.....

Next 2 years are arbitration. But, moving from the current 40/60/80% model to where it's 60/80% for their 3rd and 4th years........

After that, it's a restricted FA of sorts, that's tiered. Maybe have 4 tiers, and by position too. To where relievers and outfielders aren't making the exact same tiered salaries obviously......

Maybe tiered like 4/120, 4/80, 4/50, and 4/30?(position players and starting pitchers maybe) Numbers aren't set obviously. Maybe even have certain positional tiers be higher than others? And no idea how to equate who qualifies for what tier. So, that's TBD.

If a player isn't qualified, the team has the right to go year to year at 80% value for the next 4 years. If they choose not to, the player becomes a FA that receives that EXACT money, for one year, then goes year to year until becoming a true FA after 8 years, as everyone else........

Teams can obviously trade the qualified tier player if they can, instead of deciding not to tender him the contract. As a way of recouping value they're losing.

After 8 years, players hit true FA. A bit later, but with much more upfront money in their pockets. Conceivably make more career money in this format, than what's current.

No compensation whatsoever if a team refuses to give the player his tiered contract and the player hits the open market to either receive his 4 year deal elsewhere or to go year to year. Which if the player bets on himself, conceivably makes more money going year to year, if he breaks out. Of course, this is why teams would try trading and the allure of adding guys for cost certainty of 4 years, probably increases trade value too.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:29 pm

davell wrote:Here's my general idea, stealing some from each the NFL and the NBA......

Double minor league salaries.

First 2 years are auto renewals, but players get paid a million per year.(prorated, if they're in the minors some.....

Next 2 years are arbitration. But, moving from the current 40/60/80% model to where it's 60/80% for their 3rd and 4th years........

After that, it's a restricted FA of sorts, that's tiered. Maybe have 4 tiers, and by position too. To where relievers and outfielders aren't making the exact same tiered salaries obviously......

Maybe tiered like 4/120, 4/80, 4/50, and 4/30?(position players and starting pitchers maybe) Numbers aren't set obviously. Maybe even have certain positional tiers be higher than others? And no idea how to equate who qualifies for what tier. So, that's TBD.

If a player isn't qualified, the team has the right to go year to year at 80% value for the next 4 years. If they choose not to, the player becomes a FA that receives that EXACT money, for one year, then goes year to year until becoming a true FA after 8 years, as everyone else........

Teams can obviously trade the qualified tier player if they can, instead of deciding not to tender him the contract. As a way of recouping value they're losing.

After 8 years, players hit true FA. A bit later, but with much more upfront money in their pockets. Conceivably make more career money in this format, than what's current.

No compensation whatsoever if a team refuses to give the player his tiered contract and the player hits the open market to either receive his 4 year deal elsewhere or to go year to year. Which if the player bets on himself, conceivably makes more money going year to year, if he breaks out. Of course, this is why teams would try trading and the allure of adding guys for cost certainty of 4 years, probably increases trade value too.

Interesting. The positional teir thing sounds like a bit of a headache for guys who play multiple positions or pitchers who swing between starting and reliving their first few years. Better to just let the market decide if a guy is a reliever or starter once he's ready to hit FA.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby jersey cubs fan » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:04 am

8 years for free agency is awful
Unless you want to guarantee owners make much greater profit
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby davell » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:39 am

I disagree, based on how I configured the money. The players receive much more in their early years. Personally, I think they make more this way, than if the system stays the same. Plus, it technically allows the small markets extra time with their good players too, if they're willing to pay. Conceivably this could even help cut out tanking for longer stretches too.

Why do you think this makes owners even more?
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:40 am

All teams nationalized and forcibly turned into worker collectives.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammys Boombox » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:54 am

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:All teams nationalized and forcibly turned into worker collectives.


Change name to NationalSocialisticBaseball.com
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Bluescale » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 am

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:All teams nationalized and forcibly turned into worker collectives.


Also every team has to send two tributes to the capital every year to participate in the hunger games.
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