The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby HawkeTrackler » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:00 pm

biittner77 wrote:Lots of ideas here about how to spend other people's money.


Bootlicker alert
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Bertz » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:49 pm

biittner77 wrote:Lots of ideas here about how to spend other people's money. Any change that results in higher pay for the players will result in higher prices for tickets, parking etc. The owners are not going to make less money. They just aren't. Debate all you want how much that sucks but that's how it's always going to be. But here's an idea: have a relegation system whereby every 5 years, the 3 owners with the fewest wins have to sell their teams to someone else.

Are far as avoiding tanking, a draft lottery among non playoff teams would help that. Make it the same chance for all non playoff teams to get the number one pick. There would be no incentive to tank. Such a system would not punish mediocrity the way the current system does. Then let teams trade draft picks. The NFL draft is more exciting because teams move up and down and collect picks.


Wait, is the relegation idea sarcastically over-the-top or do you honestly think that's more realistic than the other ideas in this thread?
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:53 pm

Bertz wrote:
biittner77 wrote:Lots of ideas here about how to spend other people's money. Any change that results in higher pay for the players will result in higher prices for tickets, parking etc. The owners are not going to make less money. They just aren't. Debate all you want how much that sucks but that's how it's always going to be. But here's an idea: have a relegation system whereby every 5 years, the 3 owners with the fewest wins have to sell their teams to someone else.

Are far as avoiding tanking, a draft lottery among non playoff teams would help that. Make it the same chance for all non playoff teams to get the number one pick. There would be no incentive to tank. Such a system would not punish mediocrity the way the current system does. Then let teams trade draft picks. The NFL draft is more exciting because teams move up and down and collect picks.


Wait, is the relegation idea sarcastically over-the-top or do you honestly think that's more realistic than the other ideas in this thread?

I don’t see any possible issues with forcing 3 billionaires every 5 years to sell their teams and also finding 3 billionaires every 5 years willing and able to buy teams.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Bluescale » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:09 am

Cubswin11 wrote:I don’t see any possible issues with forcing 3 billionaires every 5 years to sell their teams and also finding 3 billionaires every 5 years willing and able to buy teams.


They can just sell them to each other. Problem solved!
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby biittner77 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:37 pm

HawkeTrackler wrote:
biittner77 wrote:Lots of ideas here about how to spend other people's money.


Bootlicker alert


Clever. I'm at a loss for words. That such an eloquent turn of phrase should be constructed on my behalf...

I don't care how much owners make or don't make. They've been crying poverty for years. Nobody really believes it. That's not even the point. Of course he has the money, of course he could afford it. I'd love for him to spend it. I just don't expect him to do it without considering the return on his investment.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:15 pm

biittner77 wrote:
I don't care how much owners make or don't make. They've been crying poverty for years. Nobody really believes it. That's not even the point. Of course he has the money, of course he could afford it. I'd love for him to spend it. I just don't expect him to do it without considering the return on his investment.

This is nothing at all like what we piled on you for. This statement is almost completely unrelated to what you said earlier.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:43 pm

That’s not how supply/demand works.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby CubinNY » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:48 pm

I want to talk about these horsefeathers owners some more.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:52 pm

CubinNY wrote:I want to talk about these horsefeathers owners some more.


That's "do-gooder'ing, risk-taking, job-creators" to you, pal.


/sarcasm font
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:59 pm

https://deadspin.com/baseball-doesnt-ne ... 1831644811

The baseball panic is rising. With every additional day that Bryce Harper and Manny Machado go unsigned—and Dallas Keuchel and Mike Moustakas and A.J. Pollock and Craig Kimbrel—the drumbeat strengthens: Something is wrong here. After all, as has been pointed out here, every team could use a Manny Machado and none of them would go bankrupt by signing him, while Ben Lindbergh at The Ringer notes that team GMs are increasingly dragging their feet on signings; already, we’re seeing the C-word emerge, just as it did after a similarly slow free-agent winter last year.

Certainly, there are reasons to be suspicious. MLB owners are rolling in dough—league-wide revenues hit a staggering $10.3 billion last year, nearly quintupling since 1992 even after accounting for inflation. Yet owners are not, by and large, spending that windfall on player salaries as you might expect: The average MLB salary actually dropped in 2018, for only the fourth time in 50 years.

And then, of course, it’s reasonable to assume collusion when this is a league whose owners have been caught colluding before. (One of those four years of falling average salaries, in fact, was 1987, the year that Expos outfielder Andre Dawson, frustrated at remaining unsigned through March, gave in and signed a blank contract with the Cubs, ultimately turning in an MVP season at the bargain price of $500,000.) So: Owners raking in tons of money, players getting lowballed on contract offers, a league with a history of illegal labor actions, and it all adds up to dirty business, right?

There is, it turns out, a far simpler explanation for the hot stove league’s long night, and it has less to do with outright collusion than with a mismatch in two key ways of defining what a player is worth to a team. Baseball players, it turns out, are simultaneously over- and underpaid, thanks to the magic of microeconomics.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby CubinNY » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:02 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:https://deadspin.com/baseball-doesnt-need-collusion-to-turn-off-the-hot-stov-1831644811

The baseball panic is rising. With every additional day that Bryce Harper and Manny Machado go unsigned—and Dallas Keuchel and Mike Moustakas and A.J. Pollock and Craig Kimbrel—the drumbeat strengthens: Something is wrong here. After all, as has been pointed out here, every team could use a Manny Machado and none of them would go bankrupt by signing him, while Ben Lindbergh at The Ringer notes that team GMs are increasingly dragging their feet on signings; already, we’re seeing the C-word emerge, just as it did after a similarly slow free-agent winter last year.

Certainly, there are reasons to be suspicious. MLB owners are rolling in dough—league-wide revenues hit a staggering $10.3 billion last year, nearly quintupling since 1992 even after accounting for inflation. Yet owners are not, by and large, spending that windfall on player salaries as you might expect: The average MLB salary actually dropped in 2018, for only the fourth time in 50 years.

And then, of course, it’s reasonable to assume collusion when this is a league whose owners have been caught colluding before. (One of those four years of falling average salaries, in fact, was 1987, the year that Expos outfielder Andre Dawson, frustrated at remaining unsigned through March, gave in and signed a blank contract with the Cubs, ultimately turning in an MVP season at the bargain price of $500,000.) So: Owners raking in tons of money, players getting lowballed on contract offers, a league with a history of illegal labor actions, and it all adds up to dirty business, right?

There is, it turns out, a far simpler explanation for the hot stove league’s long night, and it has less to do with outright collusion than with a mismatch in two key ways of defining what a player is worth to a team. Baseball players, it turns out, are simultaneously over- and underpaid, thanks to the magic of microeconomics.

They had me until the last paragraph.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Derwood » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:13 am

He's not entirely wrong, though. Young, in-their-prime players are grossly underpaid, and as such, expect to be grossly overpaid in their later career to compensate for it. Without a work stoppage, its the dumb system we're stuck with
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:23 am

CubinNY wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:https://deadspin.com/baseball-doesnt-need-collusion-to-turn-off-the-hot-stov-1831644811

The baseball panic is rising. With every additional day that Bryce Harper and Manny Machado go unsigned—and Dallas Keuchel and Mike Moustakas and A.J. Pollock and Craig Kimbrel—the drumbeat strengthens: Something is wrong here. After all, as has been pointed out here, every team could use a Manny Machado and none of them would go bankrupt by signing him, while Ben Lindbergh at The Ringer notes that team GMs are increasingly dragging their feet on signings; already, we’re seeing the C-word emerge, just as it did after a similarly slow free-agent winter last year.

Certainly, there are reasons to be suspicious. MLB owners are rolling in dough—league-wide revenues hit a staggering $10.3 billion last year, nearly quintupling since 1992 even after accounting for inflation. Yet owners are not, by and large, spending that windfall on player salaries as you might expect: The average MLB salary actually dropped in 2018, for only the fourth time in 50 years.

And then, of course, it’s reasonable to assume collusion when this is a league whose owners have been caught colluding before. (One of those four years of falling average salaries, in fact, was 1987, the year that Expos outfielder Andre Dawson, frustrated at remaining unsigned through March, gave in and signed a blank contract with the Cubs, ultimately turning in an MVP season at the bargain price of $500,000.) So: Owners raking in tons of money, players getting lowballed on contract offers, a league with a history of illegal labor actions, and it all adds up to dirty business, right?

There is, it turns out, a far simpler explanation for the hot stove league’s long night, and it has less to do with outright collusion than with a mismatch in two key ways of defining what a player is worth to a team. Baseball players, it turns out, are simultaneously over- and underpaid, thanks to the magic of microeconomics.

They had me until the last paragraph.


Then read on, young squire.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby big ball chunky time » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:52 am

Derwood wrote:He's not entirely wrong, though. Young, in-their-prime players are grossly underpaid, and as such, expect to be grossly overpaid in their later career to compensate for it. Without a work stoppage, its the dumb system we're stuck with


im not going to read it but i assume what they're talking about is how by baseball economics, the players deserve a much larger cut and the owners are sitting on money they should be investing into the team.

on the other hand, no one deserves to make 300 million dollars when you have so many people in poverty
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:12 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:
Derwood wrote:He's not entirely wrong, though. Young, in-their-prime players are grossly underpaid, and as such, expect to be grossly overpaid in their later career to compensate for it. Without a work stoppage, its the dumb system we're stuck with


im not going to read it but i assume what they're talking about is how by baseball economics, the players deserve a much larger cut and the owners are sitting on money they should be investing into the team.

on the other hand, no one deserves to make 300 million dollars when you have so many people in poverty



Most economists would disagree with your assessment. However, most socialists or communitsts would agree with it. A window into your worldview.....
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:20 pm

OH horsefeathers YOU GOT FOUND OUT IMB
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Cubfanintheknow » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:20 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:im not going to read it but i assume what they're talking about is how by baseball economics, the players deserve a much larger cut and the owners are sitting on money they should be investing into the team.

on the other hand, no one deserves to make 300 million dollars when you have so many people in poverty


I suggest you read it.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:23 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:OH horsefeathers YOU GOT FOUND OUT IMB



I know. I was stunned. I always thought I was the resident commie. instead, we have so much in common.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby champaignchris » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:06 pm

Collusion requires some behind the scenes agreement. I don’t think there is that. It’s all right there in the CBA. The players got took at the negotiating table. The owners’s greed Is a given. The players’ representatives’ incompetence isn’t.

I think the players are going to have to bite the bullet over the next couple years, but then they need to be way more militant next time around. If I were representing the owners, I’d be reading the tea leaves and beginning to work with the players’ union now.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby CubinNY » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:32 am

I just read it. It’s a [expletive] article. It makes no account for context. As IMB wrote a few pages back, baseball isn’t a business, it’s a closed economy that’s allowed to make its own operating rules. If every owner was a Jeff Loria or the Rays horsefeathers owner group the club would cease to exist. Also, there are far more lucrative investments these people could make. But the main return is the value of team.
Last edited by CubinNY on Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:12 am

It's basically saying that teams HAVE technically often "overpaid," but mostly for middle tier players. It's dumb for them to try and course correct with the top tier FA's instead of with, y'know, the horsefeathering mid-level contracts (and just lame for them to try and "fix" things that way, period).
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:11 pm

It's a week to go until February, and 2 26-year old players with a cumulative 61 fWAR split almost equally between them are still unsigned.

Baseball is broken.
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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby Brian » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:52 pm

thead





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Re: The Business of Baseball (AKA never side with management)

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:57 pm

Wow, workers against workers. ‘Merica
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