Rule Changes Are Coming

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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Bull » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:14 pm

sneakypower wrote:the best part of baseball is baseball happening, the worst part of baseball is the waiting around for baseball to happen; this reduces that some

Cubswin11 wrote:
Derwood wrote:The three batter minimum is the worst idea ever

It really is, it fundamentally changes things. LOOGY’s will become extinct.

willy-wonka-stop-dont.gif

To be clear. LOOGYs “fundamentally changed” baseball. This fundamentally changes them back. Let’s not pretend Babe Ruth and Ted Williams faced LOOGYs.

I still (mildly) don’t like it. But to be fair, I’m 40 and I hate change and my daughter is now dating and I hate everything, especially change.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:38 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
sneakypower wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
It probably won't shorten game time at all. Any time saved by not making a pitching change will be offset by a pitcher afraid to throw strikes to a guy he doesn't feel he can get out, and/or shenanigans teams will apply to get around the rule. And any rule that favors the offense does not cut time out of the game.

It's just such a pointlessly dumb rule.

i don't even know that game duration is the issue, so much as big gaps of time where nothing horsefeathering happens and you gotta sit there and watch Bruce Bochy or whoever do their interminable waddle to the pitchers mound followed by eighteen meaningless warmup tosses before the same exercise gets repeated in two minutes after the new guy issues a walk

it's the worst part of baseball and nobody likes it

Some of that stuff is kinda fundamentally part of baseball though.....


But they're not? A lot of it is just the product of changes in the game from different eras. It's not like a billion pitching changes is some kind of ingrained tradition over the history of the game.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:34 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
sneakypower wrote:i don't even know that game duration is the issue, so much as big gaps of time where nothing horsefeathering happens and you gotta sit there and watch Bruce Bochy or whoever do their interminable waddle to the pitchers mound followed by eighteen meaningless warmup tosses before the same exercise gets repeated in two minutes after the new guy issues a walk

it's the worst part of baseball and nobody likes it

Some of that stuff is kinda fundamentally part of baseball though.....


But they're not? A lot of it is just the product of changes in the game from different eras. It's not like a billion pitching changes is some kind of ingrained tradition over the history of the game.

Baseball is inherently a game of no action. Nothing happens in this game 95% of the time the game is taking place. Pretending that reducing pitching changes will rid us of that awful aspect of baseball where there is no action going on is misguided. Yes, bullpen usage has evolved. So has just about every aspect of the game. It has been the case for as far back as I know, that any pitcher on the mound has to face the next announced batter, and that is all. Arbitrarily making that guy face three is just incredibly stupid.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:46 pm

Except offense is better and more exciting than pitching (except for super nerds), so this is cool.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby bcl412 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:14 pm

It’s not good to have important games lasting until stupid times of the night on fall weekdays, well you can but I don’t see how it doesn’t hurt the games growth. It’s tough because changing baseballs rules is challenging even though the other major sports do it frequently. I don’t know if this is the answer but something does have to be done though I think going months of the offseason with no action from player movement is more harmful at the moment
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Sammys Boombox » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:21 pm

bcl412 wrote:It’s not good to have important games lasting until stupid times of the night on fall weekdays, well you can but I don’t see how it doesn’t hurt the games growth. It’s tough because changing baseballs rules is challenging even though the other major sports do it frequently. I don’t know if this is the answer but something does have to be done though I think going months of the offseason with no action from player movement is more harmful at the moment


I feel they need to start prioritizing postseason games finishing instead of starting when all 4 time zones can actually watch.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby BigSlick » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:52 pm

pitch clock pitch clock pitch clock

PITCH CLOCK PITCH CLOCK PITCH CLOCK

just do a pitch clock you guys. all the other 'pace of play' ideas are bad and make baseball objectively worse
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:55 pm

Best pace of play change is to shorten the commercial breaks. If every team has to become the Chicago TD Ameritrades or whatever to make up the lost ad revenue, so be it.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:09 pm

The "best" pace of play change is a pitch clock, because if you enforce it then it cures the pace and duration problems at once. Everything else(limiting shifts, pitching changes, roster limits, commercial breaks, etc) is small potatoes in comparison to the impact a pitch clock would have.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby big ball chunky time » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:13 pm

I still don’t understand what shifts have to do with pace of play
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby sneakypower » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:23 pm

ironically shifts might improve the pace of play if you determine they successfully limit offense (but there may be secondary effects where this causes teams to try to walk more)

i think the push to eliminate shifts stems instead from them sucking some of the fun out of the game for a lot of people
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby BigSlick » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:04 pm

I don't understand the idea that Shifts suck fun out. I love that the defense has more tools at its disposal. Who doesn't love when a pitcher goes into the outfield? or something whacky like, two outfielders and five infielders?

Make the game fun, and strategic damnit
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Bluescale » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:00 pm

BigSlick wrote:I don't understand the idea that Shifts suck fun out. I love that the defense has more tools at its disposal. Who doesn't love when a pitcher goes into the outfield? or something whacky like, two outfielders and five infielders?

Make the game fun, and strategic damnit


But how often does the shift result in 2 outfielders, or something weird like that? Most casual fans (which also translates to most fans) want more offense, and the shift specifically counteracts that.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby David » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:03 pm

yeah, it might be irrational, but when i thnk of shifts all taht comes to mind is the frustration of watching schwarber and rizzo launch rockets right into outs
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:12 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:I still don’t understand what shifts have to do with pace of play

They’re in the gray area/Manfred shooting from the hip with these rules that are under the guise for “pace of play” but really being done to help offense and aesthetics. Imo.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:58 am

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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:25 am

Passan has more info here, boo 3 batter min.

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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby abmillis » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:30 pm

3 batter minimum is stupid

Single trade deadline is fine, though maybe pushing it a week or so further out would be good.

Increased roster size is good

Don't know why they don't go with a pitch clock, seems like that would solve a lot of issues while not causing any real ones
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Bertz » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:40 pm

I'm okay with the three batter minimum. There'd ideally be a more eloquent way of solving the problem (max of 11 pitchers on the roster?) but I think most such solutions are ripe for unintended consequences.

Also, Joe hates it so that probably means it is good

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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Derwood » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:44 pm

If a batter is announced, you bring a pitcher in, then a new batter is announced, does that count as two batters?

Because it should
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Sammys Boombox » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:09 pm

They really should have just eliminated warm-ups on the mound if you come in after an inning starts and also eliminated the manager walking to the mound to make the pitching change. If the manager walks to the mound it should have counted as a visit even if the pitcher is removed.

Also, are there ways to list a player as a two-way player (pitcher and position player), since they have new rules on when position players can/can’t pitch?
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby bcl412 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:27 pm

BigSlick wrote:I don't understand the idea that Shifts suck fun out. I love that the defense has more tools at its disposal. Who doesn't love when a pitcher goes into the outfield? or something whacky like, two outfielders and five infielders?

Make the game fun, and strategic damnit


I’m not really anti shift or anything but I do enjoy watching guys cover ground to make a play or whatever over line drives hit directly at dudes because they’re positioned well. I’m not against shifts though because o never exactly like rules that prevent teams from exploiting deficiencies. If a batter is only successfull hitting to one side of the field and you defend to stop him that’s on the hitter in my eyes. Like in basketball when there’s talk of preventing the “hack a bad shooter” strategy. It’s on the player to improve their skills though I guess some of that logic can be applied to a defender participating in the shift as well
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Regular Show » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:29 pm

Sammys Boombox wrote:Also, are there ways to list a player as a two-way player (pitcher and position player), since they have new rules on when position players can/can’t pitch?


So MLB will designate players into groups. Most players will be listed as either pitchers or position players. To qualify as a two-way player (I believe) you have to pitch 20 IP and have played 20 innings in the field or at DH. Something like that to avoid teams trying this.

Really, it's only like two or three "true" two-way players in my mind (Lorenzen, Ohtani) and maybe a couple more in the minors. I guess Bumgarner could qualify if the Giants ever used him as a DH.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby Andy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:41 pm

Derwood wrote:If a batter is announced, you bring a pitcher in, then a new batter is announced, does that count as two batters?

Because it should

That's actually a good question and I would agree with your position. I suspect with the 3-batter minimum, such occurrences will be lessened.

There were actually a couple Tweets over the last few hours about how one-batter appearances have declined in recent years, which kind of underscores (IMO) that the rule change isn't really necessary.
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Re: Rule Changes Are Coming

Postby jersey cubs fan » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:22 pm

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