Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

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Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:17 pm

This is a huge horsefeathering blow, imo. Got outsold by the [expletive] Reds for a guy we badly needed in an area of the organization we are so far behind in. Seriously bringing in Boddy was probably the most impactful move we could’ve made all offseason.



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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:17 pm

Damn yo, they just bodied us

OTOH Boddy's got a weird reputation as a loudmouth so maybe it just wasn't a personality fit. Also also not sure he's ever been with a ML org officially? I don't have much issue pursuing a Callaway or Farrell for a more ML oriented pitching guru role
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:28 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:Damn yo, they just bodied us

OTOH Boddy's got a weird reputation as a loudmouth so maybe it just wasn't a personality fit. Also also not sure he's ever been with a ML org officially? I don't have much issue pursuing a Callaway or Farrell for a more ML oriented pitching guru role

He has a tough personality which yeah maybe that was part of it but he’s the best at what he does. He’s only consulted with teams and players as far as I recall. Callaway and Farrell are fossils compared to what he’s doing. We badly needed Boddy and now need to find someone like him to take on this new pitching role (I’m sure there’s plenty of suitable gurus out there like him, I just doubt we can identify them properly or pry them away from whatever they’re doing).

And again, we got outbid/out sold by the [expletive] Reds.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:37 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:He has a tough personality which yeah maybe that was part of it but he’s the best at what he does. He’s only consulted with teams and players as far as I recall. Callaway and Farrell are fossils compared to what he’s doing. We badly needed Boddy and now need to find someone like him to take on this new pitching role (I’m sure there’s plenty of suitable gurus out there like him, I just doubt we can identify them properly or pry them away from whatever they’re doing).


It sucks to say but, now that he's drawn the attentions of 30 billionaires who would either want to hire him or send him into the sun, probably not for long. He was the first and a legend. Callaway's 43 to Boddy's 36, just started coaching in 2010, actually has significant MiL and ML coaching experience and success. He may not be shiny and new anymore, but my dude Schwarber proved that's not necessarily the worst thing while you're young

The part about outbid/outsold on the Reds is speculation. They didn't hire a niche name who doesn't have any experience outside his niche world, a great one he built himself so awesome but still
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Cubswin11 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:46 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:He has a tough personality which yeah maybe that was part of it but he’s the best at what he does. He’s only consulted with teams and players as far as I recall. Callaway and Farrell are fossils compared to what he’s doing. We badly needed Boddy and now need to find someone like him to take on this new pitching role (I’m sure there’s plenty of suitable gurus out there like him, I just doubt we can identify them properly or pry them away from whatever they’re doing).


It sucks to say but, now that he's drawn the attentions of 30 billionaires who would either want to hire him or send him into the sun, probably not for long. He was the first and a legend. Callaway's 43 to Boddy's 36, just started coaching in 2010, actually has significant MiL and ML coaching experience and success. He may not be shiny and new anymore, but my dude Schwarber proved that's not necessarily the worst thing while you're young

The part about outbid/outsold on the Reds is speculation. They didn't hire a niche name who doesn't have any experience outside his niche world, a great one he built himself so awesome but still

Maybe as the day to day major league guy Callaway is better. But the pitching development role for mostly the minor leaguers we’re talking here, the in the lab stuff using technology, techniques and methodology he basically created, Boddy is leaps and bounds better.

And we offered him a job and he picked the Reds, we got out pitches or out bid and that’s a horsefeathering disgrace.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:04 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Maybe as the day to day major league guy Callaway is better. But the pitching development role we’re talking here, the in the lab stuff using technology, techniques and methodology he basically created, Boddy is leaps and bounds better.

And we offered him a job and he picked the Reds, we got out pitches or out bid and that’s a horsefeathering disgrace.


Maybe the Reds just offered a better and more resposibility than the Cubs were willing to offer with his zero years of running any major pro programs throughout a season? The Reds turned over their entire minor league pitching program to Boddy, but keep in mind the Cubs already hired the biggest amateur name out there to build up their org program - a program that built a whos whos of ML SPs before coming here - earlier in the decade. That same guy left for the Brewers' and in 2019....the Reds' ML job. Boddy would have been cool but it's probably a flashy attention grabbing move they can live without

Also if his advantages are technology, science, and math....Other people can replicate that and billionaires are crazy - the Cubs built a lab and got results this year without Boddy, have been signing Driveline guys for years, have sent guys there for years (Kellogg!)...My guess is guys like Hottovy and other young pitching coaches in the org are at least familiar with principles the Cubs most value yada yada, the technology and techniques they most value and use...
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:10 pm

We can strike back and hire Derek Johnson as Manager
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:10 pm

OTOH I love the Reds' earnestness, hope they finish second in the division next year. OTOOH they keep hiring guys who worked for the Cubs or the Cubs are interviewing to handle their pitching and with results so far. Why not look at their 2019 ML pitching storyline - they hire the Cubs' former minor league pitching coordinator to run their ML program after a huge year for MIL's big club, Reds get outstanding SP for the first time in forever, and then hire a guy the Cubs offered a job to to run their entire MiL program - as some signs we should be confident in where the pitching is going behind the scenes?
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby CubinNY » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:28 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:OTOH I love the Reds' earnestness, hope they finish second in the division next year. OTOOH they keep hiring guys who worked for the Cubs or the Cubs are interviewing to handle their pitching and with results so far. Why not look at their 2019 ML pitching storyline - they hire the Cubs' former minor league pitching coordinator to run their ML program after a huge year for MIL's big club, Reds get outstanding SP for the first time in forever, and then hire a guy the Cubs offered a job to to run their entire MiL program - as some signs we should be confident in where the pitching is going behind the scenes?

horsefeathers every team in the division who aren't the Cubs.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby ConstableRabbit » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:14 am

There’s no way we got *outbid* by the reds. He was likely offered a bigger role that we were not willing to offer.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:19 am

ConstableRabbit wrote:There’s no way we got *outbid* by the reds. He was likely offered a bigger role that we were not willing to offer.

We either got outbid or outsold with a better pitch. The pitching development infrastructure is non existent, I can’t imagine we weren’t willing to give him whatever role he wanted in pitcher development.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:37 am

Cubswin11 wrote:We either got outbid or outsold with a better pitch. The pitching development infrastructure is non existent, I can’t imagine we weren’t willing to give him whatever role he wanted in pitcher development.


Who actually believes this? I'm not even sure you believe this. Pitching's weird and they didn't spend alot of money on amateur talent, explaining why the whole way through, there's not some big mystery why it's lagged behind
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:42 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:We either got outbid or outsold with a better pitch. The pitching development infrastructure is non existent, I can’t imagine we weren’t willing to give him whatever role he wanted in pitcher development.


Who actually belives this? I'm not even sure you believe this

This was the first year it seemed we’ve done anything on the development front since 2015-16. I’m not entirely uncertain it was just dumb and random luck. Theo admitted they still are way behind in this development stuff the last few years.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:55 am

Cubswin11 wrote:This was the first year it seemed we’ve done anything on the development front since 2015-16. I’m not entirely uncertain it was just dumb and random luck. Theo admitted they still are way behind in this development stuff the last few years.


Even if this is true, and we've been ballwashing Alzolay since 2017 when he came out of nowhere, Marquez has been pretty much the same dude since the NWL in 2018, who cares? Better late than never

They are clearly behind, there's no Cole and Verlander stories here and the velocity's not exciting, but Epstein also pointed out that not so long ago they were one of the best pitching teams in the MLs. Not surprisingly the Underwoods, Kelloggs, Cliftons, Stinnetts, etc of the world have gotten them nowhere but already we've seen higher pick pitchers from their 2016 and later drafts bring value with Hatch, Lange, and Richan all getting traded this year as the quality or raw talent acquired since has gone up (Gallardo, Jensen)
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:07 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:This was the first year it seemed we’ve done anything on the development front since 2015-16. I’m not entirely uncertain it was just dumb and random luck. Theo admitted they still are way behind in this development stuff the last few years.


Even if this is true, and we've been ballwashing Alzolay since 2017 when he came out of nowhere, who cares? If there's a year to pick, right?

I think they are clearly behind, there's no Cole and Verlander stories here and the velocity's not exciting, but Epstein also pointed out that not so long ago they were one of the best pitching teams in the MLs

So you think everything has just been luck good or bad and we should just keep the status quo? You don’t think things need fixing on the development side?
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby ConstableRabbit » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:14 am

Cubswin11 wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:There’s no way we got *outbid* by the reds. He was likely offered a bigger role that we were not willing to offer.

We either got outbid or outsold with a better pitch. The pitching development infrastructure is non existent, I can’t imagine we weren’t willing to give him whatever role he wanted in pitcher development.

Whatever role he wanted? No way. Boddy is the kind of guy you bring in to run the pitch lab, and maybe give insight in scouting, mechanics, etc. There’s no way I’m giving him free reign over the entire pitching program.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby SouthSideRyan » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:16 am

Was hoping their interest was just a red herring.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:22 am

ConstableRabbit wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:There’s no way we got *outbid* by the reds. He was likely offered a bigger role that we were not willing to offer.

We either got outbid or outsold with a better pitch. The pitching development infrastructure is non existent, I can’t imagine we weren’t willing to give him whatever role he wanted in pitcher development.

Whatever role he wanted? No way. Boddy is the kind of guy you bring in to run the pitch lab, and maybe give insight in scouting, mechanics, etc. There’s no way I’m giving him free reign over the entire pitching program.

That’s pretty much what he’s doing with the Reds. Theo said we’re adding a minor league pitching coordinator or whatever, yesterday. You let a guy like Boddy have free reign over that whole thing when it comes to development, that’s all I mean.

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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby TomtheBombadil » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:51 am

Cubswin11 wrote:So you think everything has just been luck good or bad and we should just keep the status quo? You don’t think things need fixing on the development side?


I've said luck zero times and you've mentioned it twice so nope. Outside of maybe the horrendous 2018 of Darvish, there's not a whole lot of things you might call bad luck in there, and I think it's obvious they fell behind the tech (maybe a good thing since most of that horsefeathers is eeeviiiiiiil but definitely a competitive disadvantage in this increasingly openly creepy billionaire playground reality).

Expected things happened is more the theme: Arrieta and Hammel left, Lester got older, Strop got older, Morrow's renaissance ended when he got hurt, selling out for offense and a show at catcher led to a lot of good pitchers asking for the backup catchers, guys got hurt (Edwards), guys who got better wanted more (Montgomery), some guys got worse (J. Wilson), Kimbrel didn't immediately light the world on fire after teams told him to go screw goats we're busy colluding all offseason, and not spending any money or top picks on amateurs led to a lot of Stinnets, Kellogs, and Cliftons just to get a decent-ish arm prospect in Alzolay, (edit: forgot a big one) Quintana wasn't quite a young Jon Lester more Ted Lilly...They were yet again super transparent about pitching last offseason - made a ton of changes that included making the pitching lab a public story with their most popular writer getting a walkthrough, Hottovy's competence with modern methods and tech, and even how they planned to change their approach with minor league pitching - not sure what the status quo even would be. Not even sure how they'd go from no infrastructure at all to all the infrastructure and wild success if they landed Boddy tbh either. That's a huge climb for a guy with zero experience building a ML program for a ML organization, hardly any guarantees there

Also also that Boddy is still involved with Driveline is a really big deal. My guess is the Cubs weren't into that, that would be against the point of hiring him in the first place
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:08 am

Hiring Boddy would have been cool, but I don’t think he’s uniquely qualified for the role. The fact that they’re targeting someone with his skills/strengths means as much as if they’d gotten him in particular.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Bertz » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:50 am

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Hiring Boddy would have been cool, but I don’t think he’s uniquely qualified for the role. The fact that they’re targeting someone with his skills/strengths means as much as if they’d gotten him in particular.


This. So very much this.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:34 am

Bertz wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Hiring Boddy would have been cool, but I don’t think he’s uniquely qualified for the role. The fact that they’re targeting someone with his skills/strengths means as much as if they’d gotten him in particular.


This. So very much this.

I think it likely is. But we knew Boddy was available to fill this role and likely would be very good at it. We don’t know who else is reasonably available and also if Theo can identify the right guy. It’s encouraging to be targeting it, but idk if they stick the landing. And again, we lost out to the horsefeathers Reds this on a guy we offered a job to.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Tim » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:04 am

My guess is that we wanted him to commit full time and the reds were willing to let him continue at driveline.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby Regular Show » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:17 am

Tim wrote:My guess is that we wanted him to commit full time and the reds were willing to let him continue at driveline.


Yeah, same thing happened with Rany Jazayerli. The Cubs offered to hire him as a member of their FO (back in like 2012 or 2013 I believe). The problem was he would've had to quit his medical practice and commit full-time. It was an excruciating choice for him...

I'm glad we at least got to read some excellent articles from him on the defunct Grantland and occasionally now on The Ringer.
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Re: Reds Hire Kyle Boddy

Postby jersey cubs fan » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:04 pm

Bertz wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Hiring Boddy would have been cool, but I don’t think he’s uniquely qualified for the role. The fact that they’re targeting someone with his skills/strengths means as much as if they’d gotten him in particular.


This. So very much this.

How many legit new wave pitching gurus are there to pick from?

This can't be much different than free agent baseball players. There are only a select few who will actually be very good at the job.
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