NL DH by 2021?

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NL DH by 2021?

Postby David » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:29 pm

I hope Ralph is right on this one...

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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:30 pm

David wrote:I hope Ralph is right on this one...


good timing for Nick's opt out
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:50 pm

Ugh, the DH is gross and stupid.

Oh great, instead of thinking about interesting strategic decisions I get to watch some 36 year old former All-Star with 2 years remaining on his megadeal put up an incredibly mediocre offensive performance.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:53 pm

Woo hoo, the DH is fun and awesome.

This is great, instead of pretending there is something strategic about letting a crappy hitter hit, I get to watch guys who know how to hit actually hit.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby David » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:54 pm

Rob wrote:Ugh, the DH is gross and stupid.

Oh great, instead of thinking about interesting strategic decisions I get to watch some 36 year old former All-Star with 2 years remaining on his megadeal put up an incredibly mediocre offensive performance.


interesting strategic decisions?

come on

whatever is remotely "interesting" or "strategic" about those decisions is vastly outweighed by the fact that you have to watch pitchers putz around at the plate 10 times instead of actual major league hitters
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby champaignchris » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:56 pm

I don’t like the DH.

I don’t like that the two leagues play by different rules even less. It was easier to ignore before inter-league play.

I think a designated pinch hitter hybrid approach would be more fun and interesting, but I don’t think baseball’s top people are creative enough to make that work.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Banedon » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:56 pm

Rob wrote:Ugh, the DH is gross and stupid.

Oh great, instead of thinking about interesting strategic decisions I get to watch some 36 year old former All-Star with 2 years remaining on his megadeal put up an incredibly mediocre offensive performance.


Good hitters batting > maybe Jose Quintana can get a lucky single.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby David » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:58 pm

like how about the strategy involved with a pitcher having to get an actual hitter out instead of being able to sleep walk through an at bat
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:01 pm

The mythological strategy is a thing that happens maybe once a game every few games. In almost every game, the pitcher is pulled in the 6th and every time his spot comes up they use a pinch hitter. That's not strategy, it's commoditized resource utilization, and it's dull as hell.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:01 pm

Tie it to the starting pitcher please.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby sneakypower » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:09 pm

assuming robot umps follow suit (spiking C offense) and especially knowing Manfred has given a green light to continual tech-driven cheating there's going to be offensive records obliterated routinely
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Derwood » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:12 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:The mythological strategy is a thing that happens maybe once a game every few games. In almost every game, the pitcher is pulled in the 6th and every time his spot comes up they use a pinch hitter. That's not strategy, it's commoditized resource utilization, and it's dull as hell.


And it slows the game down
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:20 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:Woo hoo, the DH is fun and awesome.

This is great, instead of pretending there is something strategic about letting a crappy hitter hit, I get to watch guys who know how to hit actually hit.


For decades, the single most important decision that a manager has to make during a game has been what to do with his starting pitcher coming up to the plate in a close game.

There are plenty of actual things that go into the decision of whether or not to pinch hit for the pitcher, and with whom.

What is the score? How is my pitcher performing? How fatigued are they? How many more batters can they face? Who is coming up in the opponent's order in the next couple innings? Are those players good or bad matchups for my starting pitcher? Who do we have available in our bullpen today? How are they pitching? Do we have runners on base currently? How is our offense performing? Which batters are available off the bench? What are their matchups against this pitcher? Is the other manager warming up guys in his bullpen? Are those other pitchers good or bad matchups for our pinch hitters? Etc...

It is just about the only time that a manager can make a real strategic difference in a game. The rest of the in-game managing could be done by a drunken monkey.

If every DH were David Ortiz in his prime, this might be a different story. But that's not how it works. The average DH hit .252/.339/.467 for a line just 10% better than league average. It's just the place you shove rehabbing and past-their-prime players who can't hack it in the field anymore, and guys who probably will be retired in a couple years.

I think that's boring. I enjoy the strategic side of it much more than watching geriatric players pad their numbers without making a meaningful impact.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby grassbass » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:25 pm

Rob wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:Woo hoo, the DH is fun and awesome.

This is great, instead of pretending there is something strategic about letting a crappy hitter hit, I get to watch guys who know how to hit actually hit.


If every DH were David Ortiz in his prime, this might be a different story. But that's not how it works. The average DH hit .252/.339/.467 for a line just 10% better than league average.


But we're not talking about having them replace a league-average hitter. They're replacing guys who are lucky to hit .150.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby jersey cubs fan » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:28 pm

Rob wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:Woo hoo, the DH is fun and awesome.

This is great, instead of pretending there is something strategic about letting a crappy hitter hit, I get to watch guys who know how to hit actually hit.


For decades, the single most important decision that a manager has to make during a game has been what to do with his starting pitcher coming up to the plate in a close game.


Which tells you how unimportant the managers role is during a game.

Also, it should read, "that a manager had to make". That's 1982 baseball you're talking about. It's gone.

Baseball isn't a game of in game strategy. The level of decision making is checkers compared to the front office's chess.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:30 pm

grassbass wrote:
Rob wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:Woo hoo, the DH is fun and awesome.

This is great, instead of pretending there is something strategic about letting a crappy hitter hit, I get to watch guys who know how to hit actually hit.


If every DH were David Ortiz in his prime, this might be a different story. But that's not how it works. The average DH hit .252/.339/.467 for a line just 10% better than league average.


But we're not talking about having them replace a league-average hitter. They're replacing guys who are lucky to hit .150.


For like 2 AB. By the 7th inning or so, they're often just replacing the pinch hitter, who is probably the same person that is now DHing.

I don't care enough about that one AB the pitcher takes in the 3rd inning enough to justify giving up the strategic decision of whether to let them bat in the 5th or 6th.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby grassbass » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:35 pm

Rob wrote:
grassbass wrote:
Rob wrote:
If every DH were David Ortiz in his prime, this might be a different story. But that's not how it works. The average DH hit .252/.339/.467 for a line just 10% better than league average.


But we're not talking about having them replace a league-average hitter. They're replacing guys who are lucky to hit .150.


For like 2 AB. By the 7th inning or so, they're often just replacing the pinch hitter, who is probably the same person that is now DHing.

I don't care enough about that one AB the pitcher takes in the 3rd inning enough to justify giving up the strategic decision of whether to let them bat in the 5th or 6th.


Yes, and I'd rather have a guy with an ~.800 OPS for those two plate appearances than watch Jon Lester hit. In addition, if a pitcher is getting shelled early on, I would prefer not to have to burn a pinch hitter early in the game. Having the DH allows you to keep your bench in tact for later in the ballgame.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby cl smooth » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:37 pm

i like the nl not having a dh but at this point i rather see someone who can hit a baseball bat 9th and not pitchers who have a career ops of .247.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby squally1313 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:48 pm

It would make the end of the roster decisions a lot less important for me. Which, honestly, is probably a good thing at this point. Still like the starting pitcher/hybrid idea.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby TomtheBombadil » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:52 pm

Sooner if possible, please!
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Brian » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:59 pm

Most managers are dumb and get fired every couple of years, giving them less to think about/ways to impact the game is a good thing.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Banedon » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:00 pm

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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Brian » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:06 pm

probably still would have done the trade and still was worth it, but come on no one can honestly say the wouldn't want Vogey mashing monster dongs as a DH for the Cubs
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby Andy » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:12 pm

The DH is dumb and lame, but this fight was lost when the DH started becoming a regular thing at lower levels of the game and pitchers no longer bothered working on their hitting. Might as well just get it over with.
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Re: NL DH by 2021?

Postby David » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:14 pm

Brian wrote:probably still would have done the trade and still was worth it, but come on no one can honestly say the wouldn't want Vogey mashing monster dongs as a DH for the Cubs


give me georgie instead
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