General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Discussion about other teams, non-cubs players, baseball history, sabr vs scouting, etc.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:52 pm

Apparently Milton Bradley had another domestic violence incident. What a scumbag.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Regular Show » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:52 am

Cubswin11 wrote:Apparently Milton Bradley had another domestic violence incident. What a scumbag.


Wait what!?! I thought he was in prison? Didn't he get arrested multiple times for DV?

I'm glad our FO does a lot of background research on players and really stresses makeup before acquiring/drafting any player. They still make mistakes, but the mistakes at least aren't horsefeathers like M. Bradley...
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Omar » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:39 pm

thats quite a bit of domestic violence for a toy company
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Omar » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:51 pm

Regular Show wrote:
Cubswin11 wrote:Apparently Milton Bradley had another domestic violence incident. What a scumbag.


Wait what!?! I thought he was in prison? Didn't he get arrested multiple times for DV?

I'm glad our FO does a lot of background research on players and really stresses makeup before acquiring/drafting any player. They still make mistakes, but the mistakes at least aren't horsefeathers like M. Bradley...


In 2013 he was sentenced to 32 months in jail. Released on August 24, 2016 after only 15 months.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:23 am

Time to thank the Astros again for making these Cubs possible by taking Appel over Bryant. Appel was still a boss for going back and getting $6+ million when many said he would not, but that so easily could have been the Cubs. Both Bryant and Jon Gray are about to have their best seasons too.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Liam Neeson » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:50 pm



I would suggest that testing the will of 1,200 alpha males at the pinnacle of their profession is not a good strategy for 30 men who are bound by a much smaller fraternity.


We're almost there to someone creating the baseball free agent version of the Navy Seal meme.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:25 pm

Right or wrong, Tony Clark should probably be fired. Maybe we still end up here if the last CBA was different but he certainly didn’t help to avoid getting to this spot.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Tim » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:10 pm

When Bryce Harper signs a $400M contract next offseason, it's going to undercut a lot of these arguments.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:15 pm

Tim wrote:When Bryce Harper signs a $400M contract next offseason, it's going to undercut a lot of these arguments.


Why? The spending next offseason is going to be largely relegated to a relative few FA; what's getting the players mad this year aren't that guys like Jake and Darvish and Cobb are still out there; it's that dozens of others are weirdly still hanging around without a home, too. A handful of guys getting monster contracts isn't going to do much to alleviate that if next offseason there's still a huge number of normally signed guys aren't being signed.

It's pretty silly at this point to think that isn't going to come to a head pretty soon. Harper and Machado and (maybe) Kersahw and co. making bank isn't going to help much.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:28 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:what's getting the players mad this year aren't that guys like Jake and Darvish and Cobb are still out there; it's that dozens of others are weirdly still hanging around without a home, too.


These two things are very, very closely related.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:35 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:what's getting the players mad this year aren't that guys like Jake and Darvish and Cobb are still out there; it's that dozens of others are weirdly still hanging around without a home, too.


These two things are very, very closely related.


Obviously, but there's still going to be a ton of discontent next offseason. Yeah, the big names will be signed sooner and for more money, but that's not going to fix the situation, especially in regards to stuff like the decreasing players' share becoming more and more of a thing everyone is aware of, or how badly players are getting screwed by rookie deals and FA being put off for so long. This is gonna get ugly.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Tim » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:42 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:what's getting the players mad this year aren't that guys like Jake and Darvish and Cobb are still out there; it's that dozens of others are weirdly still hanging around without a home, too.


These two things are very, very closely related.


Obviously, but there's still going to be a ton of discontent next offseason. Yeah, the big names will be signed sooner and for more money, but that's not going to fix the situation, especially in regards to stuff like the decreasing players' share becoming more and more of a thing everyone is aware of, or how badly players are getting screwed by rookie deals and FA being put off for so long. This is gonna get ugly.

Too many people don't understand the difference between mean and median.

Those huge contracts will make a difference in the narrative.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:44 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:what's getting the players mad this year aren't that guys like Jake and Darvish and Cobb are still out there; it's that dozens of others are weirdly still hanging around without a home, too.


These two things are very, very closely related.


Obviously, but there's still going to be a ton of discontent next offseason. Yeah, the big names will be signed sooner and for more money, but that's not going to fix the situation, especially in regards to stuff like the decreasing players' share becoming more and more of a thing everyone is aware of, or how badly players are getting screwed by rookie deals and FA being put off for so long. This is gonna get ugly.


I agree, I said the same thing a few weeks ago. But the reason so many people are unsigned is *because* the top guys are unsigned, and there will probably be much greater urgency given the quality of FAs and willing participants next year. That's not going to make the MLBPA decide that everything is hunky dory, but it does make this particular issue a more ephemeral one.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:45 pm

We'll just have to disagree, Tim. The crux of this is the MLBPA realizing how badly veteran players are relatively screwed now. Granted, a good part of them is them screwing over younger players with their previous negotiations, but that's still coming home to roost and isn't going away. You're going to have enough players griping who aren't the lucky few older players still getting big deals (or signed at all).
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Tim » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:47 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:We'll just have to disagree, Tim. The crux of this is the MLBPA realizing how badly veteran players are relatively screwed now. Granted, a good part of them is them screwing over younger players with their previous negotiations, but that's still coming home to roost and isn't going away. You're going to have enough players griping who aren't the lucky few older players still getting big deals (or signed at all).

When are they due for a new contract? I think you overestimate single offseason impacts.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:52 pm

Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:We'll just have to disagree, Tim. The crux of this is the MLBPA realizing how badly veteran players are relatively screwed now. Granted, a good part of them is them screwing over younger players with their previous negotiations, but that's still coming home to roost and isn't going away. You're going to have enough players griping who aren't the lucky few older players still getting big deals (or signed at all).

When are they due for a new contract? I think you overestimate single offseason impacts.


The current agreement goes through 2021. And I think you're underestimating the players realizing how much they've given up over the last decade+, and the corner they've boxed themselves into. They're not going to just shrug their shoulders and figure that's that because Bryce Harper made more money than god.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:54 pm

Personally, I would not be surprised to see a labor stoppage at some point between now and then. The who thing is hugely, hugely in favor of the teams/owners, and the players have little leverage outside of going on strike.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Tim » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:01 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:We'll just have to disagree, Tim. The crux of this is the MLBPA realizing how badly veteran players are relatively screwed now. Granted, a good part of them is them screwing over younger players with their previous negotiations, but that's still coming home to roost and isn't going away. You're going to have enough players griping who aren't the lucky few older players still getting big deals (or signed at all).

When are they due for a new contract? I think you overestimate single offseason impacts.


The current agreement goes through 2021. And I think you're underestimating the players realizing how much they've given up over the last decade+, and the corner they've boxed themselves into. They're not going to just shrug their shoulders and figure that's that because Bryce Harper made more money than god.

By 2021, all of this season's offseason will be forgotten by most. I'll bet that you'll see teams spend in advance of the next negotiation.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:07 pm

Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:When are they due for a new contract? I think you overestimate single offseason impacts.


The current agreement goes through 2021. And I think you're underestimating the players realizing how much they've given up over the last decade+, and the corner they've boxed themselves into. They're not going to just shrug their shoulders and figure that's that because Bryce Harper made more money than god.

By 2021, all of this season's offseason will be forgotten by most. I'll bet that you'll see teams spend in advance of the next negotiation.


A stoppage could easily occur before 2021; most analysis right now has been pointing out how the relationship between the union and owners is horrendous, and has been for a while (this offeseason is really more of capper), so the general consensus is that there are going to have to be some pretty significant changes between now and 2021. Simply spending more for a couple offseasons isn't going to get the union to roll over.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Tim » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:14 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Tim wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
The current agreement goes through 2021. And I think you're underestimating the players realizing how much they've given up over the last decade+, and the corner they've boxed themselves into. They're not going to just shrug their shoulders and figure that's that because Bryce Harper made more money than god.

By 2021, all of this season's offseason will be forgotten by most. I'll bet that you'll see teams spend in advance of the next negotiation.


A stoppage could easily occur before 2021; most analysis right now has been pointing out how the relationship between the union and owners is horrendous, and has been for a while (this offeseason is really more of capper), so the general consensus is that there are going to have to be some pretty significant changes between now and 2021. Simple spending more for a couple offseasons isn't going to get the union to roll over.

I guess we'll see. I don't think we'll see a stoppage mid-contract. The union would take hell for that.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:19 pm

I mean, there's a not a time where they could pull that where they WOULDN'T take hell.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby davell » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:08 pm

Clark did a HORRIBLE job negotiating. There's nothing to do, until the next one. Which will almost definitely cost us a season of baseball, in my opinion.

But, the bottom line is this is a horsefeathers FA class. Teams know that and are saving for next year. And yes, I think teams will spend more next off season, not JUST on Bryce and Manny.

But, the bottom line is this is a saber friendly sport now. All but a couple of teams look at FA differently than it was looked at by most, a decade ago.

They'll still spend, but its going to be controlled and when they think they've got a shot at winning.

Which brings me to another point, that I laughed at earlier today, discussing this with a buddy.

He said he read and agreed with an article, saying baseball was better 25 years ago. Back when teams were dumb and everyone thought they had a chance to win.....I think I agree too lol.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby weis21 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:16 pm

davell wrote:Which will almost definitely cost us a season of baseball, in my opinion.

please don't say things like this that make me sad
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:21 pm

i'm pro-player and all, and this current cba really sucks for them, but at the same time, this whole backlash against teams not signing players from this lackluster free agent class, at least with regard to certain players, is kind of silly. i mean, eric hosmer, who has accumulated 9.9 fWAR (!!!) over 7 seasons, including seasons of -1.7, -0.1 and 0.0, is reportedly sitting on two 7-year offers but is holding out for an eight-year deal.

but the cap should be raised significantly. and rookie control should be shorter. if FOs want to keep harping on not wanting to pay for past performance, then let players get paid when they're most likely to be putting up their best years.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:29 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:i'm pro-player and all, and this current really cba sucks for them, but at the same time, this whole backlash against teams not signing players from this lackluster free agent class, at least with regard to certain players, is kind of silly. i mean, eric hosmer, who has accumulated 9.9 fWAR (!!!) over 7 seasons, including seasons of -1.7, -0.1 and 0.0, is reportedly sitting on two 7-year offers but is holding out for an eight-year deal.

but the cap should be raised significantly. and rookie control should be shorter. if FOs want to keep harping on not wanting to pay for past performance, then let players get paid when they're most likely to be putting up their best years.

Agree with most of this though I’d think small market teams would have major push back on shortening control. Another big thing that should be changed is tying draft position to spending, teams should be able to spend what they want and the current set up really incentivized losing since finishing a few spots lower increases spending ability rather significantly
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