General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Discussion about other teams, non-cubs players, baseball history, sabr vs scouting, etc.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby ConstableRabbit » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:07 pm

David wrote:still don't know why the hell we traded him for pratt

I thought looking up scouting reports, stats, and prospect rankings would make this more clear but now I'm even more puzzled. WTF were they doing?
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby SouthSideRyan » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:39 pm

That one year Richard Lewis had in the minors was fun at least. I remembered it as Cruz being out of options and them wanting a lefty in the pen? I guess ultimately it didn't hurt that much, but man, Cruz still seemed so young at the time.
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Re: RE: Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:20 am

SouthSideRyan wrote:That one year Richard Lewis had in the minors was fun at least. I remembered it as Cruz being out of options and them wanting a lefty in the pen? I guess ultimately it didn't hurt that much, but man, Cruz still seemed so young at the time.
Cruz was one of the oldest looking 20 year olds I've ever seen
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Bull » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:28 am

David wrote:still don't know why the hell we traded him for pratt


Pratt pitched one of his four games as a Cub while my wife was in labor with our first child. Don't remember much about the delivery, but pratt could not throw a strike to save his life. Came on in relief of Mitre and threw 8 straight balls.

edit: upon further review, gamecast says two walks on 9 pitches. They are wrong. It was the night my firstborn came into the world, I think I would remember better than gamecast.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Bull » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:30 am

ConstableRabbit wrote:
David wrote:still don't know why the hell we traded him for pratt

I thought looking up scouting reports, stats, and prospect rankings would make this more clear but now I'm even more puzzled. WTF were they doing?

He was a pitcher from Atlanta. He had to be good.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:34 am

SouthSideRyan wrote:That one year Richard Lewis had in the minors was fun at least. I remembered it as Cruz being out of options and them wanting a lefty in the pen? I guess ultimately it didn't hurt that much, but man, Cruz still seemed so young at the time.

Bc he aged two years overnight
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:48 am

Bull wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:
David wrote:still don't know why the hell we traded him for pratt

I thought looking up scouting reports, stats, and prospect rankings would make this more clear but now I'm even more puzzled. WTF were they doing?

He was a pitcher from Atlanta. He had to be good.


Which reminds me, I really thought Micah Bowie would be useful.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:51 am

Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
Bull wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:I thought looking up scouting reports, stats, and prospect rankings would make this more clear but now I'm even more puzzled. WTF were they doing?

He was a pitcher from Atlanta. He had to be good.


Which reminds me, I really thought Micah Bowie would be useful.

Didn't Ruben quevedo come from them
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Hairyducked Idiot » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:08 am

David wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
Bull wrote:He was a pitcher from Atlanta. He had to be good.


Which reminds me, I really thought Micah Bowie would be useful.

Didn't Ruben quevedo come from them


Same deal, in which we shipped out Terry Mulholland and Jose Hernandez. I was thinking Sergio Mitre came in that deal too but apparently he was homegrown. Before looking it up, I had no idea we got a third player, a PTBNL, named "Joey Nation" who apparently briefly appeared in the majors. He doesn't sound real.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:09 am

Coors Jr. is getting a humidor apparently. Wasn’t aware they were doing that.

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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:26 am

David wrote:
Hairyducked Idiot wrote:
Bull wrote:He was a pitcher from Atlanta. He had to be good.


Which reminds me, I really thought Micah Bowie would be useful.

Didn't Ruben quevedo come from them

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=41&p=49511&hilit=quevedo#p49511
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Bobson Dugnutt » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:54 pm

why do old school baseball types always cite WHIP when they want try to throw a bone to analytics?
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Regular Show » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:04 pm

Bobson Dugnutt wrote:why do old school baseball types always cite WHIP when they want try to throw a bone to analytics?


It's a really easy stat to understand. WAR and FIP and some other metrics are harder to decipher and understand especially for old school types not named Peter Gammons.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:24 pm



travis pretending he was hard core enough to koyie hill himself to pitch a couple weeks sooner
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby The Logan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:18 pm

Regular Show wrote:
Bobson Dugnutt wrote:why do old school baseball types always cite WHIP when they want try to throw a bone to analytics?


It's a really easy stat to understand. WAR and FIP and some other metrics are harder to decipher and understand especially for old school types not named Peter Gammons.


WHIP = WAR + FIP. Obviously.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:06 pm

I watched that special on mlbn about the 90s Braves.

They talked about the deal they had for Bonds before the 92 season. The players going to Pittsburgh were Alejandro Pena, Keith Mitchell, PBTNL.

Imagine if they were able to complete that deal and then extend him and sign Maddux the following off-season. Some articles suggest that it was an either/or scenario and they only had money for one of them but it's easy to see that they could have traded Gant (he was no longer capable at CF and one of the corner OF had to go, Justice was in pre-arb ) for a nice package to open up 3m and Pena made 2.5 himself, so there's Maddux's money (signed for 5/25) right there. Locking them both in would have been feasible. I feel pretty confident that if they had they would have won more than one title.

It cannot be stated enough that Larry Himes was erroneously spared the firing squad. However it's interesting that Maddux turned down 10m more from the Yankees. If he had signed there then maybe the Braves don't even win once in the decade and the Yankees are the undisputed team of the 90s. Also, would Maddux have turned down 5/35 from the Cubs? It's quite possible he would have because the roster was abysmal beyond Ryno, Grace, and a couple SP in Morgan and Castillo. Looking at the numbers they probably saw Castillo as a guy about to ascend to Maddux's status. He had just completed his age 23 season and gave them 35 starts with a 3.45 ERA so I can see that as something that they foresaw being somewhat plausible.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:06 pm

The Angels are going with a 6-man rotation this year, seems smart. Literally all their guys have battled significant injuries the last 1-3 years and all carry major risks and likely innings limit, will be interesting to see how it works and if it helps performance/health and if it’s the start of a new trend.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:11 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:I watched that special on mlbn about the 90s Braves.

They talked about the deal they had for Bonds before the 92 season. The players going to Pittsburgh were Alejandro Pena, Keith Mitchell, PBTNL.

Imagine if they were able to complete that deal and then extend him and sign Maddux the following off-season. Some articles suggest that it was an either/or scenario and they only had money for one of them but it's easy to see that they could have traded Gant (he was no longer capable at CF and one of the corner OF had to go, Justice was in pre-arb ) for a nice package to open up 3m and Pena made 2.5 himself, so there's Maddux's money (signed for 5/25) right there. Locking them both in would have been feasible. I feel pretty confident that if they had they would have won more than one title.

It cannot be stated enough that Larry Himes was erroneously spared the firing squad. However it's interesting that Maddux turned down 10m more from the Yankees. If he had signed there then maybe the Braves don't even win once in the decade and the Yankees are the undisputed team of the 90s. Also, would Maddux have turned down 5/35 from the Cubs? It's quite possible he would have because the roster was abysmal beyond Ryno, Grace, and a couple SP in Morgan and Castillo. Looking at the numbers they probably saw Castillo as a guy about to ascend to Maddux's status. He had just completed his age 23 season and gave them 35 starts with a 3.45 ERA so I can see that as something that they foresaw being somewhat plausible.


Wasn't the story that Maddux had his agent (was it Boras back then?) call up Himes and offered him a chance to match Atlanta's contract before he signed, and we passed, saying we'd already allocated our money to Jose Guzman and someone else?
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby SouthSideRyan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:08 am

I thought it was even more horrifying than that where Maddux went back willing to take the Cubs previous offer which was less than the Braves offered but Himes told him the offer was off the table(the money having been spent on Guzman and...Greg Hibbard?)
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:48 am

SouthSideRyan wrote:I thought it was even more horrifying than that where Maddux went back willing to take the Cubs previous offer which was less than the Braves offered but Himes told him the offer was off the table(the money having been spent on Guzman and...Greg Hibbard?)


this sounds right, actually
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:51 am

Maddux said Himes told him during the 92 ASB that he hadn't yet won 20 games or a CY so therefore he would not be paid commensurate to what he felt he was worth. Maddux then went on a rampage and ran away with the CY. I'm having a tough time finding details on a last ditch effort by either party.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:55 am

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Maddux said Himes told him during the 92 ASB that he hadn't yet won 20 games or a CY so therefore he would not be paid commensurate to what he felt he was worth. Maddux then went on a rampage and ran away with the CY. I'm having a tough time finding details on a last ditch effort by either party.



History regards Himes' judgment on Thomas much better than what he displayed with Maddux, whose departure rivaled the Lou Brock-for-Ernie Broglio trade as the worst decision ever by Cubs management. That the infamy of the Maddux Decision still incites anger in Wrigleyville hardly surprises Himes.

"Somebody told me Cubs fans are still irate with me, and I understand why they're irate because, what the hell, I'm not happy with myself that it happened that way,'' Himes said. "Looking back, you can always say I could have approached Tribune Co. (ownership) for a few extra bucks, but I didn't think I should. I thought we had enough money on the table.''

The Cubs offered Maddux, fresh off a Cy Young Award season, $27.5 million over five years. The Yankees came in with the highest bid of $34 million, but Maddux eventually signed a five-year deal with the Braves worth $500,000 more overall than the offer from the Cubs, who ran out of resources after signing free-agent pitcher Jose Guzman. Guzman won 14 games as a Cub.

Agent Scott Boras reportedly made a last-ditch call to negotiate with the Cubs, but Himes informed him they ran out of money after adding closer Randy Myers.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014 ... x-decision


Sidenote: I actually ran into Frank Thomas at the Cosmo when I was in Vegas a couple weeks ago. I'm never that guy, but I kinda gave him a wave and a "big hurt!" and he acknowledged me politely.
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Re: RE: Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:05 am

David wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Maddux said Himes told him during the 92 ASB that he hadn't yet won 20 games or a CY so therefore he would not be paid commensurate to what he felt he was worth. Maddux then went on a rampage and ran away with the CY. I'm having a tough time finding details on a last ditch effort by either party.



History regards Himes' judgment on Thomas much better than what he displayed with Maddux, whose departure rivaled the Lou Brock-for-Ernie Broglio trade as the worst decision ever by Cubs management. That the infamy of the Maddux Decision still incites anger in Wrigleyville hardly surprises Himes.

"Somebody told me Cubs fans are still irate with me, and I understand why they're irate because, what the hell, I'm not happy with myself that it happened that way,'' Himes said. "Looking back, you can always say I could have approached Tribune Co. (ownership) for a few extra bucks, but I didn't think I should. I thought we had enough money on the table.''

The Cubs offered Maddux, fresh off a Cy Young Award season, $27.5 million over five years. The Yankees came in with the highest bid of $34 million, but Maddux eventually signed a five-year deal with the Braves worth $500,000 more overall than the offer from the Cubs, who ran out of resources after signing free-agent pitcher Jose Guzman. Guzman won 14 games as a Cub.

Agent Scott Boras reportedly made a last-ditch call to negotiate with the Cubs, but Himes informed him they ran out of money after adding closer Randy Myers.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014 ... x-decision


Sidenote: I actually ran into Frank Thomas at the Cosmo when I was in Vegas a couple weeks ago. I'm never that guy, but I kinda gave him a wave and a "big hurt!" and he acknowledged me politely.
Well... at least Myers made a run at the single season saves record... or something
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:40 am

[expletive], the Maddux thing still hurts. I was 13, and that was my first moment of real Cubs heartbreak where it was, like, "horsefeathers, maybe this team really is horsefeathers."
Last edited by Sammy Sofa on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:51 am

Sammy Sofa wrote:[expletive], the Maddux thing still hurts. TI was 13, and that was my first moment of real Cubs heartbreak where it was, like, "horsefeathers, maybe this team really is horsefeathers."

TI was actually only 12 at the time
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