General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Discussion about other teams, non-cubs players, baseball history, sabr vs scouting, etc.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby bcl412 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:45 pm

TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:from a fan perspective i dont think anyone is too concerned with who benefits from the DH the most on a team-level as there are very few truly impactful DHs like, ever. It just makes the games more watchable because i hate watching pitchers horsefeathering hit


I’m always mixed on the nl dh because pitcher PAs are generally awful they make successful pitcher PAs fun as hell. One of my favorite things in sports is pitcher dongs
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:47 pm

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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:50 pm

More to the actual topic, tying the DH to the starting pitcher takes care of everyone's concerns except the most ardent 'why don't we just have 9 designated fielders' weirdos. No pitchers hitting and you still get the late innings strategy. That also has the side effect of dis-incentivizing the opener that most people seem to hate.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby ConstableRabbit » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:51 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:More to the actual topic, tying the DH to the starting pitcher takes care of everyone's concerns except the most ardent 'why don't we just have 9 designated fielders' weirdos. No pitchers hitting and you still get the late innings strategy. That also has the side effect of dis-incentivizing the opener that most people seem to hate.

To reiterate, this is where I am. It's the perfect compromise.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:55 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:More to the actual topic, tying the DH to the starting pitcher takes care of everyone's concerns except the most ardent 'why don't we just have 9 designated fielders' weirdos. No pitchers hitting and you still get the late innings strategy. That also has the side effect of dis-incentivizing the opener that most people seem to hate.

What’s the late inning strategy after the SP is out that having the DH prevents from happening? The AL still pinch hits guys in matchup spots, managers still use multiple RPs there. It’s pretty much just the stupid double switch and that’s it? Or am I missing something?
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:56 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:More to the actual topic, tying the DH to the starting pitcher takes care of everyone's concerns except the most ardent 'why don't we just have 9 designated fielders' weirdos. No pitchers hitting and you still get the late innings strategy. That also has the side effect of dis-incentivizing the opener that most people seem to hate.

What’s the late inning strategy after the SP is out that having the DH prevents from happening? The AL still pinch hits guys in matchup spots, managers still use multiple RPs there. It’s pretty much just the stupid double switch and that’s it? Or am I missing something?


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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:00 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:More to the actual topic, tying the DH to the starting pitcher takes care of everyone's concerns except the most ardent 'why don't we just have 9 designated fielders' weirdos. No pitchers hitting and you still get the late innings strategy. That also has the side effect of dis-incentivizing the opener that most people seem to hate.

What’s the late inning strategy after the SP is out that having the DH prevents from happening? The AL still pinch hits guys in matchup spots, managers still use multiple RPs there. It’s pretty much just the stupid double switch and that’s it? Or am I missing something?


timing of relief pitchers w/r/t the pitcher's spot, whether or not to double switch, forced scarcity with pinch hitters, etc

It's not some huge thing that makes up 50% of the game, but the other side of the aisle is getting worked up about pitchers getting less than 5% of plate appearances when the regular players make unproductive outs 60+% of the time too.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby David » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:40 pm

ConstableRabbit wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:More to the actual topic, tying the DH to the starting pitcher takes care of everyone's concerns except the most ardent 'why don't we just have 9 designated fielders' weirdos. No pitchers hitting and you still get the late innings strategy. That also has the side effect of dis-incentivizing the opener that most people seem to hate.

To reiterate, this is where I am. It's the perfect compromise.

It's a compromise that isn't needed. Full DH forever.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Banedon » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:40 am

Regular Show wrote:
TBS Playoffs Insider wrote:from a fan perspective i dont think anyone is too concerned with who benefits from the DH the most on a team-level as there are very few truly impactful DHs like, ever. It just makes the games more watchable because i hate watching pitchers horsefeathering hit


I agree, but it was awesome watching Zambrano hit some dongs back in the day. When you have a good hitting SP it's fun (for a short while).


It was fun to watch Rizzo pitch but I don't want him doing it on a regular basis.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:00 am

David wrote:
ConstableRabbit wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:More to the actual topic, tying the DH to the starting pitcher takes care of everyone's concerns except the most ardent 'why don't we just have 9 designated fielders' weirdos. No pitchers hitting and you still get the late innings strategy. That also has the side effect of dis-incentivizing the opener that most people seem to hate.

To reiterate, this is where I am. It's the perfect compromise.

It's a compromise that isn't needed. Full DH forever.

Right. The horsefeathering players are in favor of a DH. That should be the end of it. There’s no compromise or making it more complicated than necessary. The idiot fans who are vocal about this don’t matter because they’re such a small percentage of fans and nobody is not watching or going away because of this rule.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Brian » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:47 pm



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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:07 pm

Wow, Sabathia's almost at 3000 Ks as well as being a handful wins off of 250. I'm a big fan of his career and believe he's a HOFer, but do not expect he will get the support for reasons. For me he's among the most interesting players of his era and one of the last of a dying breed, the 200+ inning ace (as noted by Passan in The Arm, probably not because guys can't but because teams won't). In his prime especially he was just an amazing watch as a total package power LHSP capable of carrying usually very competitive teams on his back.

https://amp.mlb.com/303599464-3000-stri ... s.amp.html

I was always a little more interested in him for two other reasons: 1) CC's probably the most successful athlete out of MLB's RBI program ever and 2) there was such a separation between fan perception of his body type (big fat guy) and the reality (one of the handful best athletes in the game at his peak). Guy was a 3 sport athlete in HS and considered one of the loudest talents of his draft year before being taken 20th overall with a big bonus. He was up for good at 20 where he quickly became an rotation anchor and was an established workhorse before taking it to another level at 25. He is going to have a very meaty and interesting baseball bio when it's all said and done. He and Zack Greinke are two guys I would vote into the HOF today if that were a thing, both seem lined up to be pretty controversial candidates.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby New York Cubs Fan » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:09 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:Wow, Sabathia's almost at 3000 Ks as well as being a handful wins off of 250. I'm a big fan of his career and believe he's a HOFer, but do not expect he will get the support for reasons. For me he's among the most interesting players of his era and one of the last of a dying breed, the 200+ inning ace (as noted by Passan in The Arm, probably not because guys can't but because teams won't). In his prime especially he was just an amazing watch as a total package power LHSP capable of carrying usually very competitive teams on his back.

https://amp.mlb.com/303599464-3000-stri ... s.amp.html

I was always a little more interested in him for two other reasons: 1) CC's probably the most successful athlete out of MLB's RBI program ever and 2) there was such a separation between fan perception of his body type (big fat guy) and the reality (one of the handful best athletes in the game at his peak). Guy was a 3 sport athlete in HS and considered one of the loudest talents of his draft year before being taken 20th overall with a big bonus. He was up for good at 20 where he quickly became an rotation anchor and was an established workhorse before taking it to another level at 25. He is going to have a very meaty and interesting baseball bio when it's all said and done. He and Zack Greinke are two guys I would vote into the HOF today if that were a thing, both seem lined up to be pretty controversial candidates.



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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Bull » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:39 pm

jersey cubs fan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:So you do think the players should limit certain demands?


No, I'm saying its' a stupid ask.

And therefore easy to concede.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:08 pm

ZiPS hates the Brewers again: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2019-zips-p ... e-brewers/

Really illustrates how much Cain and Yelich carried them last year, since those are pretty healthy projections for both and that's still more than 4 wins worse than what they did last year.

That depth chart is 2 wins worse than what's forecasted for the Cardinals even though the graphic includes an extra SP for Milwaukee. 41 WAR for STL, 39 for Milwaukee, 35 each for Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.

11 teams still yet to be released, including the Cubs.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:47 pm

Bull wrote:
jersey cubs fan wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:So you do think the players should limit certain demands?


No, I'm saying its' a stupid ask.

And therefore easy to concede.


That might be the issue? Softball consession for the owners, who also get to look like the good guys for being so gosh darn generous

I mean the baseline in public perception seems to be that the owners are up there with Gawd and ‘Merica in the perpetual war for good, so anything that even kinda sorta makes them even seem the slightest bit generous is a big win for the pigs
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:56 pm

I don't think the players should be trying to play the court of public opinions with fans. There's no equivalent baseball group for the owners to leverage against these players and with the fans. There's only the fans running for other forms of entertainment which horsefeathers the owners just as much as the players.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:43 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:I don't think the players should be trying to play the court of public opinions with fans. There's no equivalent baseball group for the owners to leverage against these players and with the fans. There's only the fans running for other forms of entertainment which horsefeathers the owners just as much as the players.


All the more reason to not waste time asking for the universal DH? Go for the biggest fish then, no? Opening with a softball that makes the already more popular other side look good seems like a bad idea
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby Bluescale » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:37 pm

TomtheBombadil wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:I don't think the players should be trying to play the court of public opinions with fans. There's no equivalent baseball group for the owners to leverage against these players and with the fans. There's only the fans running for other forms of entertainment which horsefeathers the owners just as much as the players.


All the more reason to not waste time asking for the universal DH? Go for the biggest fish then, no? Opening with a softball that makes the already more popular other side look good seems like a bad idea


No big changes are going to be implemented before the next CBA is negotiated. These kinds of small potatoes changes happen in the interim. Nothing valuable is exchanged right now.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:16 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:I don't think the players should be trying to play the court of public opinions with fans. There's no equivalent baseball group for the owners to leverage against these players and with the fans. There's only the fans running for other forms of entertainment which horsefeathers the owners just as much as the players.


All the more reason to not waste time asking for the universal DH? Go for the biggest fish then, no? Opening with a softball that makes the already more popular other side look good seems like a bad idea

By all means ask for big fish too. No demand it. Demand everything. Who cares if the fans end up siding with ownership? The fans can't support owners without it enriching players, especially if they do a good job negotiating. What do they get by holding back on any demand, big or small?
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby TomtheBombadil » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:58 pm

WrigleyField 22 wrote:
TomtheBombadil wrote:
WrigleyField 22 wrote:I don't think the players should be trying to play the court of public opinions with fans. There's no equivalent baseball group for the owners to leverage against these players and with the fans. There's only the fans running for other forms of entertainment which horsefeathers the owners just as much as the players.


All the more reason to not waste time asking for the universal DH? Go for the biggest fish then, no? Opening with a softball that makes the already more popular other side look good seems like a bad idea


By all means ask for big fish too. No demand it. Demand everything. Who cares if the fans end up siding with ownership? The fans can't support owners without it enriching players, especially if they do a good job negotiating. What do they get by holding back on any demand, big or small?


I’m basically thinking like this:

- Neither side wants less interested fans
- Since fans support the owners a more player friendly CBA is more likely to turn off fans than an owner friendly CBA
- Going for a softball like universal DH, which fans are just going to demand eventually anyway, and allowing it to be angled as a player ask/owner concession is a weak way to open
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby PackLandVA » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:39 pm

So Yanks back in the mix (are they ever really out of the mix for anyone) with an offer to Machado of $220 million over 7/8 years.

I know fans want the big FAs signed early in free agency because it makes for a more exciting offseason. But they really don't need to be signed until spring training starts, right? And as someone else mentioned, as long as they're not signed by anyone, there's still a sliver of a possibility that Tom gets drunk and green lights Theo.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby NOLA » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:00 pm



This just seems like a really stupid idea.
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby The Logan » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:39 pm

NOLA wrote:https://twitter.com/johnsheahey/status/1094335599840882688?s=21

This just seems like a really stupid idea.


Opener? Like starting the game with a reliever instead?
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Re: General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

Postby weis21 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:48 pm

The Logan wrote:
NOLA wrote:https://twitter.com/johnsheahey/status/1094335599840882688?s=21

This just seems like a really stupid idea.


Opener? Like starting the game with a reliever instead?

yeah i was confused, too (nothing new there)
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